These are good ideas, but if you're going for B, leave Eisner out of it.
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Yeah, Eisner and Katzenberg hated each others guts, especially after Katzenberg started up DreamWorks and he was accused of ripping off Disney and Pixar films.
Pretty decent ideas. I would say that you should consider that Katzenberg never really considered animation until he joined Disney (He was infamously terrible when first managing The Black Cauldron, editing the movie like any live-action picture before people told him how it actually worked), and he was brought in by Eisner initially more in making hits for Hollywood and Touchstone Pictures rather than for animation. So having him leapfrog into working with Don Bluth seems to be a bit of a jump to me, though I can imagine with a bit more working how that could come about.
I also thought about Steven Spielberg being one of the founders of DreamWorks in B, until I took into consideration that he also founded Amblin Entertainment in 1980 with Kathleen Kennedy and Frank Marshall and then I thought "You know what? Fuck it" and scrapped that idea. But is it possible that Steven Spielberg could be one of the founders of DreamWorks ITTL? While also managing Amblin Entertainment at the same time? Or is managing two companies at the same time impossible?
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I mean, Spielberg was already one of its founders OTL (The "S" of SKG). And in that configuration, it worked largely by there being a "come as you please" ruleset, with rules like no more than 9 pictures a year, being allowed to work for other studios, etc., with the primary impetus being as a way to have more creative control (He frequently worked closely with Universal under Amblin). Assuming he's convinced to put something together earlier, and be able to have some decent financial backing (Geffen or some other successful part of the triumvirate), he probably could be convinced in some form.
I've been hit by this random thought, but how would you go about making an earlier "cyber"punk genre?
The technology is optional and mostly variable by whatever era you're going for in developing it, hence the quote marks around the cyber part, but still keeping up the high tech, low life aspect, just adapted for whatever decade you pick.
I think the earliest years that would work (while still making the genre somewhat recognizable) would be around the 1917- early 1920s, possibly focused more on factory workers, cyphers, and maybe also involving company scrip as a plot point, but I admittedly don't know much about early twenty century american and/or european literary circles.
The technology is optional and mostly variable by whatever era you're going for in developing it, hence the quote marks around the cyber part, but still keeping up the high tech, low life aspect, just adapted for whatever decade you pick.
I think the earliest years that would work (while still making the genre somewhat recognizable) would be around the 1917- early 1920s, possibly focused more on factory workers, cyphers, and maybe also involving company scrip as a plot point, but I admittedly don't know much about early twenty century american and/or european literary circles.
This is an idea I had been discussing with @TheFaultsofAlts in a series of convos regarding some ideas for Hanna-Barbera in a world where Walt Disney had lived longer and gotten into TV animation with Pete Disney, his TTL son. Inspired partly by @HeX and his since cancelled Laughin' Place TL.
One possibility I thought of is that Bill Hanna and Joe Barbera react with alarm when Disney begins producing TV shows in the early to mid 70s. Realizing that Disney in the TV animation venue can mean trouble, they begin to opt for a "quality over quantity" approach to future content and urge Fred Silverman to give them that room and budget. Partilcularly this focuses on Scooby-Doo clones being gone while trying to build up the original Scooby Doo brand further. While Scrappy Doo is still introduced in TTL, he doesn't have the same reputation he does in OTL because after his novelty wears off he goes to being a recurring secondary character.
Internally, the shake-ups caused by this particularly retain to many people who had been either hired away from other studios (while Disney's troubles were dramatically less in TTL, plenty look elsewhere anyway) and/or overseas, or people whose talents Bill and Joe were aware off from their days at MGM. This leads to the promotion of several major players at the studio such as Ed Love and Iwao Tokamato. However, new ideas that Bill and Joe think could work within network parameters prove problematic.
Then, merchandise based on Peyo's The Smurfs becomes popular in both North America and in Japan.
My ideas for what could possibly happen in TTL are as follows:
A) Going off the idea of H-B trying to improve its in-house output, Ed Love and Tokamato are put on as directors for the show to the end of getting better animation than H-B's past output. What also helps is that the show is marketed to Japan and proves a success. Now in OTL, Ed Love animated many scenes of the show's first five seasons, like the scene with Tracker Smurf in this video.
B) Yuji Nunokawa considers the idea of adapting The Smurfs as an anime in collaboration with Tezuka's Mushi Productions. In TTL Hanna-Barbera begins using Tatsunoko Producions as an outsourcing deparment while he's still there, and the idea is raised to have H-B collab with Yuji's new Studio Pierrot on said series. The result is that Studio Pierrot animates a pilot which adapts The Smurfette then most of the first season. Then as time goes on it alternates between either H-B's inhouse depeartment or Studio Pierrot in terms of the animation.
Either way, the animation quality of TTL's Smurfs proves to the world that even if they can't reach Disney's level, Hanna-Barbera can still give you some nice animation when given the right room and budget.
Any and all feedback on which scenario is more plausible is welcome. I know there was some stuff about animator unions in the 1980s or something.
One possibility I thought of is that Bill Hanna and Joe Barbera react with alarm when Disney begins producing TV shows in the early to mid 70s. Realizing that Disney in the TV animation venue can mean trouble, they begin to opt for a "quality over quantity" approach to future content and urge Fred Silverman to give them that room and budget. Partilcularly this focuses on Scooby-Doo clones being gone while trying to build up the original Scooby Doo brand further. While Scrappy Doo is still introduced in TTL, he doesn't have the same reputation he does in OTL because after his novelty wears off he goes to being a recurring secondary character.
Internally, the shake-ups caused by this particularly retain to many people who had been either hired away from other studios (while Disney's troubles were dramatically less in TTL, plenty look elsewhere anyway) and/or overseas, or people whose talents Bill and Joe were aware off from their days at MGM. This leads to the promotion of several major players at the studio such as Ed Love and Iwao Tokamato. However, new ideas that Bill and Joe think could work within network parameters prove problematic.
Then, merchandise based on Peyo's The Smurfs becomes popular in both North America and in Japan.
My ideas for what could possibly happen in TTL are as follows:
A) Going off the idea of H-B trying to improve its in-house output, Ed Love and Tokamato are put on as directors for the show to the end of getting better animation than H-B's past output. What also helps is that the show is marketed to Japan and proves a success. Now in OTL, Ed Love animated many scenes of the show's first five seasons, like the scene with Tracker Smurf in this video.
B) Yuji Nunokawa considers the idea of adapting The Smurfs as an anime in collaboration with Tezuka's Mushi Productions. In TTL Hanna-Barbera begins using Tatsunoko Producions as an outsourcing deparment while he's still there, and the idea is raised to have H-B collab with Yuji's new Studio Pierrot on said series. The result is that Studio Pierrot animates a pilot which adapts The Smurfette then most of the first season. Then as time goes on it alternates between either H-B's inhouse depeartment or Studio Pierrot in terms of the animation.
Either way, the animation quality of TTL's Smurfs proves to the world that even if they can't reach Disney's level, Hanna-Barbera can still give you some nice animation when given the right room and budget.
Any and all feedback on which scenario is more plausible is welcome. I know there was some stuff about animator unions in the 1980s or something.
That's a cool idea, and why not have HB dub some anime as well?
It's a bit hard to think of it arising in the early 1900s in the way we know it, and if it does come up, that it wouldn't be quashed almost immediately. There's a lot of social, cultural, and political factors that go against it. A genre that rails against corporations would probably be taken badly in a period with a lot of red scares and "suspected communists",. And even with those aside, the progressive era of the time had helped put down a lot of the out-of-control companies of the period, which dampened much of the "corporations are taking control" fears that helped fuel cyberpunk later on. That sort of punky attitude would also probably not run long during a time where there was a lot of social conservatism and high trust in institutions (Or where those institutions would throw you away for making the kinds of suggestions of cyberpunk), so I can't really imagine the genre would really play that well to the public of the time.
That said, I could see "cyber"punk, or some proto-form, maybe rising in certain places at certain times. Weimar-era Germany, with a comparably liberal government and a lot of dysfunction, could be a decent place for it to arise. In some ways, it already had it with a film like Metropolis, which carried a lot of those elements (Dense, technically advanced city; Upper/lower class divide and themes, and a dystopia based upon that; An "aesthetic" based on the cities of rising economic powers at the time, etc.). Even that is a bit loose, though, and contrasts with a lot of the elements and ideas of the genre now (Has a far more "moderate peace through reconciliation and mediation" message over revolution and rebellion, plus there's no exact "punkish" attitude or a lot of cynicism/nihilism that's a part of a lot of cyberpunk media). Not to mention that the film bombed, both critically and commercially, at the time. The '30s in America could also briefly be a decent place for it, given films like Modern Times by Charlie Chaplin that sort of carried the ideas for cyberpunk. Gilded age America or the Victorian era for Europe could also be somewhat decent grounds for it, but it was also at the height for that sort of conservatism, so I'm not too sure either.
Even if there was a bit of success in a proto-cyberpunk genre arising though, I'd think they'd be put down not too long after gaining popuilarity, either by the Nazis following their rise or the start of WWII and subsequent red scare in the U.S. They would probably become the groundwork for later decades of cultural work, but it probably wouldn't arise as any major genre until around the same time it did OTL. Only changes in external factors would probably allow it to flourish as a major genre in one form or another, with a more liberal and "punky" era, more mistrust in institutions, no red scare, etc.
My only other thought may be that perhaps the Soviet Union could be grounds for it, albeit more as a sort of pulpy "power fantasy" kind of genre, with protags trying to work against capitalism in other countries or some such. I don't know anything about the social mood or cultural of the Soviets at the time though, or if there are certain elements that Soviet leaders would find objectionable.
Soviet literature knows few examples of “power fantasies” - the most common ones are a spy thriller, or an ordinary adventure. In another case, something more “philosophical” might have turned out.
That's what I was partly thinking.
My idea would be that it is considered but scrapped in favor of stuff pierrot creates specifically for western markets.
Dang, but I don't think much is gonna stop the inevitable anime boom so they oughta take advantage of the deal, and besides, dubbing shows are cheaper than making them, so perhaps that's how they get over their dark ages?
So I’m guessing you liked the recent post I made on the toonami timeline where I canonised light bulb animation
Trouble with that is the amount of content in animes that wouldn't fly on public TV for western audiences. Hence my idea for H-B to work with Pierrot to create some new shows entirely. Perhaps TTL's take on The Magic Angel.
This is just the tip of the iceberg - in fact, none of their Mahou Shoujo series was broadcast abroad. Heck, I even watched Creamy Mami in an absolutely terrible fan-dub that skipped the episode.
So basically Hanna-Barbera either hires an anime director or just outsources to an anime studio to get better animation at the same-ish budget?
That's an interesting idea; could even work.