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Heavy

Banned
I know just liked the idea of included him in. Just imagine it being a generic R and D guy if you want to keep it plausible. I couldn't resist having Poirier play Fox.

Do you imagine this existing instead of the Adam West TV series (still the best superhero adaptation of all time and one of the greatest pop cultural artefacts of the 1960s) or does it exist alongside it?

I'm not sure if Batman in 1968 would be the best choice for a "gritty, realistic crime drama" because that just wasn't batman in 1968. If you look at the Batman comics being published in the 60s, they didn't really have that character. My recommendation would be pushing the date back a few years, maybe to 1972 or 1973, so you could say the movie was mirroring trends in the Batman comics after the emergence of Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams as the creative team on the books, which brought in that darker kind of approach you're looking for.
 
The film series replaces both the 66' series and Bonnie And Clyde. The darker tone is a product of Arthur Penn. Meant to harken back to the original comics and also noire films of the 30's.
 
Lucius Fox didn't exist until 1979.
So, I was thinking about this. I had originally named the corrupt DA Will Finger as a homage to Bill Finger. But then I actually thought about it and realized naming a corrupt DA after him wasn't exactly the best homage. I've changed his name to Rodger Caine in a previous edit. And then it hit me, this film's Lucius Fox character can be named Lou "Fox" Finger. It is still basically the same character design but a different name. Does that work a little better for you, Heavy?
 

Heavy

Banned
So, I was thinking about this. I had originally named the corrupt DA Will Finger as a homage to Bill Finger. But then I actually thought about it and realized naming a corrupt DA after him wasn't exactly the best homage. I've changed his name to Rodger Caine in a previous edit. And then it hit me, this film's Lucius Fox character can be named Lou "Fox" Finger. It is still basically the same character design but a different name. Does that work a little better for you, Heavy?

Hey, it's your story, I was just making an observation.

I'd had my own idea recently, about a Batman movie directed by Francis Ford Coppola in the mid-70s. I was probably just projecting a bit.
 
An observation I had hoped it would take people longer to find, lol. No this is what I originally should have done. I still get Sidney Poitier as Fox, Lucius can exist as a character without breaking the plausibility "too much", and I get to pay a little homage to Bill Finger.

I'm excited to see what you come up with that. Who were you thinking to play the Bat? I am going to do a 50's era television series with James Dean as the Batman at some point after I finish this.
 

Heavy

Banned
I'm excited to see what you come up with that. Who were you thinking to play the Bat? I am going to do a 50's era television series with James Dean as the Batman at some point after I finish this.

I'm not 100% sure if I'll ever actually write it. I've written a couple of other "alternate movies" vignettes but I've had a hard time making subsequent attempts work.

I'd toyed with the idea of Coppola making a Batman movie instead of The Godfather, except Mario Puzo still co-writes it with him (fun fact which a lot of people neglect to remember: Mario Puzo wrote the screenplay for what's still the greatest superhero movie ever made, namely Richard Donner's Superman) and Dennis O'Neill, with Pacino as Bruce Wayne/Batman, Talia Shore as Vicki Vale, with Brando as Ra's al-Ghul and Diane Keaton as Talia.

My view is that it would be a kind of Roger Moore James Bond adventure movie, in such a way that reflects the contemporaneous O'Neill/Adams comics where Batman fights Ra's al-Ghul in the desert with swords.
 
So, I was thinking about this. I had originally named the corrupt DA Will Finger as a homage to Bill Finger. But then I actually thought about it and realized naming a corrupt DA after him wasn't exactly the best homage. I've changed his name to Rodger Caine in a previous edit. And then it hit me, this film's Lucius Fox character can be named Lou "Fox" Finger. It is still basically the same character design but a different name. Does that work a little better for you, Heavy?
I mean, Homaging Bill Finger as a corrupt asshole is just about the best representation you could give him. Dude was a total dick
 

Heavy

Banned
I much prefer Superman to Batman but I'm still keen on the latter, and one reason is that he's a very adaptable character that you can go in a lot of different directions with. I think there are several different points in time when it would be interesting to see an alternate Batman movie other than the ones we've seen in real life. Arthur Penn's Batman, as you've suggested, is one example. Francis Ford Coppola's would be another. And there are further examples.

Imagine, for instance, if in 1987, Brian De Palma had directed a Batman movie written by David Mamet, set in the 1930s like the original comics, with Costner as Bruce Wayne, Connery as Alfred, Andy García as James Gordon and De Niro as the Joker. :biggrin:

Or:

36f8ee41109161.57a02d1a9e25d.jpg


:biggrin:
 
I much prefer Superman to Batman but I'm still keen on the latter, and one reason is that he's a very adaptable character that you can go in a lot of different directions with. I think there are several different points in time when it would be interesting to see an alternate Batman movie other than the ones we've seen in real life. Arthur Penn's Batman, as you've suggested, is one example. Francis Ford Coppola's would be another. And there are further examples.

Imagine, for instance, if in 1987, Brian De Palma had directed a Batman movie written by David Mamet, set in the 1930s like the original comics, with Costner as Bruce Wayne, Connery as Alfred, Andy García as James Gordon and De Niro as the Joker. :biggrin:

Or:

36f8ee41109161.57a02d1a9e25d.jpg


:biggrin:
Funny enough the two co-writers who wrote Bonnie and Clyde OTL and who write Batman ITTL also co-wrote Superman with Mario Puzo OTL. But I love all these alternate Batman film ideas.
 
So, I started typing up the Batman Returns and writing only three scenes I managed to type nearly as many words as in the whole post on the first movie. I'm gonna go ahead and post those super detailed scenes. But then I'm going to switch gears and just do a small outline of the rest of the plot. If I stayed at the same pace as those scenes it would take me too long and it would be way too long. Then I'll do small outlines for the plots of the third and fourth installments as well. Just so everyone can see how the story unfolds and then eventually I'll make a thread in the Writer's Forum with super detailed scene by scene outlines of each film. Gonna leave you guys with this snippet to mull over for a little while...

The Batman Returns(1970)
Directed by Arthur Penn
Written by David Newman and Robert Benton
Cinematography by Burnett Guffey
Music Composed by Charles Strouse
A Warner Brothers Production

Starring:
Steve McQueen as Bruce Wayne/The Batman
David Niven as Alfred Pennyworth
Warren Beatty as District Attorney Harvey Dent/Two-Face
Faye Dunaway as Vicky Vale
Gene Hackman as Detective James Gordon
Sidney Poitier as Lou "Fox" Finger
Jane Fonda as Silver St. Cloud
Gene Wilder as The Riddler
Anthony Hopkins as Oswald "The Penguin" Cobblepot
Al Pacino as Salvatore "The Boss" Maroni
Walter Slezak as Rodger Caine
Kurt Russel as Young Bruce
Patrick Swayze as Young Harvey

The film opens with Batman(Steve McQueen) standing on top of Wayne Tower looking down upon Gotham. Suddenly he leaps off and glides off the screen. We cut to Harvey Dent(Warren Beatty) sitting at his desk in his office. He appears to be very agitated at someone, mumbling something we can't quite hear to himself. Suddenly he yells, "I said no!", and quickly regains his composure. Just then his window bursts open with a breeze. He quickly stands up and walks over to close the window. Startled aback Batman enters through the still open window. Batman informs Dent that it is only him. Dent doesn't seem to be comforted by this. Dent tells Batman that Gordon has been asking him about Batman and wants to meet him at an address written on a small paper. Batman looks at it saying the address out loud and asks Dent, how the Maroni trial is progressing. Dent nearly has the same agitated look we first saw and begins yelling that Batman's influence is not helping. He explains half the evidence he has against Maroni is getting thrown out because they can't explain how they legally obtained it. And the other half he can't get the necessary warrants for as their is still corruption in the Justice Department. Noticing his own aggressive attitude again Dent transforms his tone back to his usual calmness. He then tells Batman that he may have one ace-in-the-hole though. Batman successfully comforts Dent this time by saying he doesn't want to know anything about it and makes his way towards the window. Dent looks down to see Gordon's note still on his desk, he grabs it and reaches out to hand it to Batman but he's already gone.

We then see a flashback sequence of a young Bruce(Kurt Russel) at a prep school. He sees a group a bullies picking on another student, it is a young Harvey Dent(Patrick Swayze). Bruce steps in and sees the bullies have stolen something from Harvey. Harvey begs the boys to give back his lucky coin. Bruce offers the bullies his lunch money in exchange, they accept and run away. Harvey thanks Bruce and they begin talking. Eventually Harvey begins discussing the bullies and his tone completely changes as he suggests causing them great harm. Bruce is clearly shocked by the statement but Harvey plays it off as a simple joke and the two continue on as the scene ends.

The next scene opens back in the present with Batman perched a top a building. He leaps off and glides towards a small abandoned building. Detective Gordon(Gene Hackman) is waiting for him on the rooftop of the building. Batman asks Gordon why he ask him to meet at an abandoned department store. He informs Batman that the murdered body of a homeless man was discovered with a package to Batman. It had a note saying to bring Batman to the return address and for only Batman to open the package or more people would die. The package's return address was for the old department store they were standing on. Batman inspects the package exterior and listens for any mechanical noises. Finally he slowly opens it, inside the small parcel is an even smaller envelope. Drawn on the envelope is a large green question mark. Inside is a set of room keys with attached green tags numbered 1-2-3. Also inside the envelope is a small note-card with a typed message, "You can go up or down, You can go up to down, You can go down to up, Never down to down, Where am I Batman". Gordon looks at Batman and asks him, "and what the hell does that mean". Batman quickly informs him that it is the basement. Batman and Gordon then enter the building and make their way down a stairwell to the basement. They see a set of closed double-doors down a hallway. Painted on the doors is another large green question mark and the number 1. Batman unlocks the doors with the corresponding key and slowly opens the doors. Inside is a long dark hallway and all the two can see is a faint green light around a corner. Batman pulls a small flashlight from his utility belt as the two make their way down the hall. Just as they approach the corner the double doors behind them slam shut and lock them in.
 
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You sure you're not confusing him with Bob Kane?
You're right, I am.

So, I started typing up the Batman Returns and writing only three scenes I managed to type nearly as many words as in the whole post on the first movie. I'm gonna go ahead and post those super detailed scenes. But then I'm going to switch gears and just do a small outline of the rest of the plot. If I stayed at the same pace as those scenes it would take me too long and it would be way too long. Then I'll do small outlines for the plots of the third and fourth installments as well. Just so everyone can see how the story unfolds and then eventually I'll make a thread in the Writer's Forum with super detailed scene by scene outlines of each film. Gonna leave you guys with this snippet to mull over for a little while...

The Batman Returns(1970)
Directed by Arthur Penn
Written by David Newman and Robert Benton
Cinematography by Burnett Guffey
Music Composed by Charles Strouse
A Warner Brothers Production

Starring:
Steve McQueen as Bruce Wayne/The Batman
David Niven as Alfred Pennyworth
Warren Beatty as District Attorney Harvey Dent/Two-Face
Faye Dunaway as Vicky Vale
Gene Hackman as Detective James Gordon
Sidney Poitier as Lucius Fox
Jane Fonda as Silver St. Cloud
Gene Wilder as The Riddler
Anthony Hopkins as Oswald "The Penguin" Cobblepot
Al Pacino as Salvatore "The Boss" Maroni
Walter Slezak as Rodger Caine
Kurt Russel as Young Bruce
Patrick Swayze as Young Harvey

The film opens with Batman(Steve McQueen) standing on top of Wayne Tower looking down upon Gotham. Suddenly he leaps off and glides off the screen. We cut to Harvey Dent(Warren Beatty) sitting at his desk in his office. He appears to be very agitated at someone, mumbling something we can't quite hear to himself. Suddenly he yells, "I said no!", and quickly regains his composure. Just then his window bursts open with a breeze. He quickly stands up and walks over to close the window. Startled aback Batman enters through the still open window. Batman informs Dent that it is only him. Dent doesn't seem to be comforted by this. Dent tells Batman that Gordon has been asking him about Batman and wants to meet him at an address written on a small paper. Batman looks at it saying the address out loud and asks Dent, how the Maroni trial is progressing. Dent nearly has the same agitated look we first saw and begins yelling that Batman's influence is not helping. He explains half the evidence he has against Maroni is getting thrown out because they can't explain how they legally obtained it. And the other half he can't get the necessary warrants for as their is still corruption in the Justice Department. Noticing his own aggressive attitude again Dent transforms his tone back to his usual calmness. He then tells Batman that he may have one ace-in-the-hole though. Batman successfully comforts Dent this time by saying he doesn't want to know anything about it and makes his way towards the window. Dent looks down to see Gordon's note still on his desk, he grabs it and reaches out to hand it to Batman but he's already gone.

We then see a flashback sequence of a young Bruce(Kurt Russel) at a prep school. He sees a group a bullies picking on another student, it is a young Harvey Dent(Patrick Swayze). Bruce steps in and sees the bullies have stolen something from Harvey. Harvey begs the boys to give back his lucky coin. Bruce offers the bullies his lunch money in exchange, they accept and run away. Harvey thanks Bruce and they begin talking. Eventually Harvey begins discussing the bullies and his tone completely changes as he suggests causing them great harm. Bruce is clearly shocked by the statement but Harvey plays it off as a simple joke and the two continue on as the scene ends.

The next scene opens back in the present with Batman perched a top a building. He leaps off and glides towards a small abandoned building. Detective Gordon(Gene Hackman) is waiting for him on the rooftop of the building. Batman asks Gordon why he ask him to meet at an abandoned department store. He informs Batman that the murdered body of a homeless man was discovered with a package to Batman. It had a note saying to bring Batman to the return address and for only Batman to open the package or more people would die. The package's return address was for the old department store they were standing on. Batman inspects the package exterior and listens for any mechanical noises. Finally he slowly opens it, inside the small parcel is an even smaller envelope. Drawn on the envelope is a large green question mark. Inside is a set of room keys with attached green tags numbered 1-2-3. Also inside the envelope is a small note-card with a typed message, "You can go up or down, You can go up to down, You can go down to up, Never down to down, Where am I Batman". Gordon looks at Batman and asks him, "and what the hell does that mean". Batman quickly informs him that it is the basement. Batman and Gordon then enter the building and make their way down a stairwell to the basement. They see a set of closed double-doors down a hallway. Painted on the doors is another large green question mark and the number 1. Batman unlocks the doors with the corresponding key and slowly opens the doors. Inside is a long dark hallway and all the two can see is a faint green light around a corner. Batman pulls a small flashlight from his utility belt as the two make their way down the hall. Just as they approach the corner the double doors behind them slam shut and lock them in.
The main issue here is the timing. Simply put, Two-Face did not become a major villain until 1971.
 
Two-Face isn't the major villain the Riddler is he is the secondary villain here. I'll be including a lot of the backstory established by Miller much later too. Remember this is coming from the the Greatest Films Never Made forum. It is not intended to be 100% plausible but my idea for the Greatest Batman film franchise never made. Originally I had only envisioned in premaking the Nolanverse films but decided to make a more original take on a similar story arc. Overtime I've added things from the past and future of the Batman mythos.
 

Heavy

Banned
Two-Face has one of the most bizarre histories of any Batman villain given that he's otherwise a reasonably straightforward character.

One problem is that I think it can be difficult to appreciate 50 years after the fact how overwhelming the Adam West series was in defining the character in mainstream pop culture, but that can't be underestimated. The Tim Burton movies and the Joel Schumcher movies were each following the 60s show a lot more than they were anything from the comics. It's difficult to imagine how Batman could develop without that show existing at all.
 
Where we left off...

With the doors sealed a projector begins playing around the corner. The projection is a man wearing a green hooded robe(Gene Wilder) he begins speaking through a loud system.

The Batman and Gordon then solve a riddle that helps them through a deathtrap the Riddler has built in the basement. Once they've solved it the doors open back up and the Riddler tells them they'll receive another riddle soon. We then get more exposition on Harvey and his troubled past with his abusive father. We see Harvey is dating Silver St. Cloud(Jane Fonda) and their relationship is being strained by Harvey's behavior seemingly brought on by the stress of the coming trial. The Riddler sends another riddle with another corpse and the press learns of this new serial killer. Vicky Vale(Faye Dunaway) decides to investigate the case but doesn't have any leads. She decides to seek information from the Penguin(Anthony Hopkins) incarcerated at Arkham Asylum, her one and only lead is that he has information about the serial killer. Then the Maroni(Al Pacino) trial begins, as Harvey feared the interference of the Batman is causing him problems. Then former DA Rodger Caine(Walter Slezak) takes the stand and Harvey grills the hell out of him. Just as it seems he's going to crack, Caine begins drinking his water and appears to be choking before he spits out some blood. Harvey shocked drops his coin and begins to pick it up just in front of Caine. As he does Caine drops the glass of "water"/acid covering half of Harvey's face and body. We then see Batman going through the Riddler's second deathtrap and eventually defeat it. He learns of the incident involving Harvey and that Maroni has escaped. He then rushes to see him in the hospital. We see Vale following up on the lead the Penguin gave her earlier. It's a very ominous meeting in a very secluded area. We cut back to Batman arriving at the hospital and sneaking into Harvey's room window. Harvey then attacks him claiming it was all his fault and that he will kill Maroni. Batman doesn't fight back and attempts only to talk to his friend. This has no effect as Harvey doesn't know Batman is Bruce and furthermore as Two-Face claims Harvey is no more. Just then several policemen who were standing guard rush in and Two-Face makes it out that Batman is attacking him. Batman makes his escape through the window and Two-Face escapes through the door in the confusion. We then see Gordon has created the iconic Bat-Symbol on top of GCPD headquarters. Batman shows up and makes a snarky remark about it. Gordon snarks back that it worked. He then informs Batman that another corpse has been found with another riddle. And the Riddler has captured Vale. He also says that Two-Face broke out some of Maroni's men and has no idea what he may be up to. Batman insists he go after Two-Face but Gordon states the obvious that Batman is better off rescuing Vale and stopping the Riddler. Gordon says that he will take care of Two-Face and Maroni. We then see Two-Face has forced Maroni's men into serving him, killing several of them with a coin-toss decision and scarifying those who join him. They are seen robbing banks affiliated with Maroni in an attempt to force Maroni into confrontation, where again we see Two-Face murder several enforcers. Cut to Batman making his way through an abandoned hotel filled with deathtraps. He eventually makes his way to the end where the Riddler is waiting, he can either apprehend him or save Vale. He chooses to save Vale but we see later that Batman thought ahead and several GCPD officers are waiting for the Riddler on his escape path. We then see Two-Face has caught up with Maroni at his hideout. An epic shootout ensues, only Two-Face and Maroni are left standing. Both out of bullets, they start beating the pulp out of each other. Two-Face gains the upper-hand and is on the verge of beating Maroni to death when Batman intervenes. Batman again tries to talk to his friend instead of fighting him. But again it is not working and Batman removes his mask revealing he is Bruce. Two-Face backs off and we see Harvey struggling to gain control. He claims however that it may be too late and Two-Face is a part of him. Bruce consoles him and tells him that he'll get him help. Gordon and the GCPD begin to arrive and Bruce puts the cowl back on.

Harvey is sent to Arkham Asylum for treatment. The Riddler is incarcerated at Blackgate Prison and his identity is still unknown. Maroni is in intensive care and his face is heavily bandaged. He awakes suddenly. Then we see Batman and Gordon on top of GCPD headquarters. Gordon congratulates Batman for stopping the villains but states that his work is never finished in Gotham. He tells Batman that a bomb-threat was mailed in and that it contained this, "a joker card".
 
Leave you guys with another teaser while I write up another short outline.

The Batman: Dark Knight(1972)

Directed by Arthur Penn
Written by David Newman and Robert Benton
Cinematography by Burnett Guffey
Music Composed by Charles Strouse
A Warner Brothers Production

Starring:
Steve McQueen as Bruce Wayne/The Batman
David Niven as Alfred Pennyworth
Jack Nicholson as The Joker
Natalie Wood as Selina Kyle/Catwoman
Faye Dunaway as Vicky Vale
Gene Hackman as Captain James Gordon
Sidney Poitier as Lou "Fox" Finger
Jane Fonda as Silver St. Cloud
Warren Beatty as Harvey Dent/Two-Face
Gene Wilder as The Riddler/Mr. E Nigma
Anthony Hopkins as Oswald "The Penguin" Cobblepot
Al Pacino as Salvatore Maroni/Black Mask
Kurt Russel as Young Bruce
 
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