Hendryk
Banned
You hate him so much you want to kill him twice?
Nice reference. Pity it had to be made by that bottom-feeder Laval.
Petain in 1934- A Sinister France in the Thirties
- Thread starter SteveW
- Start date
You hate him so much you want to kill him twice?
Nice reference. Pity it had to be made by that bottom-feeder Laval.
Hmmm....a somewhat daft mistake there, I'll have to put someone else in there...now changed to Felix Gouin, also of the SFIO.
As for the Flaubert reference- L'Education sentimentale is one of my favourite books, and was one of my specialities back in my university days, so I thought it deserved to be shoehorned in!
The Last Reaction Hero
By 2nd March 1934, effective opposition to Petain had been seriously disrupted. In the course of less than a month, French democracy had been severely weakened through a careful campaign of manipulation and disinformation, with a dose of violence added in. The PCF had been smashed (and several of its leading members were now on route to the penal colonies in French Guiana); the SFIO was missing nearly 20% of its parliamentary cohort; and the unions had been gutted. On the Right, Ordre Nouveau and its sympathisers had been driven out or arrested, and the army would soon feel the brunt of Petain's reaction.
In public, Petain's popularity seemed unassailable. Contrived opinion polls in the tamed newspapers gave him huge (and utterly falsified) ratings. Some openly called him 'saviour of the nation'. It was to be the beginning of a sinister era for the people of France.
By 2nd March 1934, effective opposition to Petain had been seriously disrupted. In the course of less than a month, French democracy had been severely weakened through a careful campaign of manipulation and disinformation, with a dose of violence added in. The PCF had been smashed (and several of its leading members were now on route to the penal colonies in French Guiana); the SFIO was missing nearly 20% of its parliamentary cohort; and the unions had been gutted. On the Right, Ordre Nouveau and its sympathisers had been driven out or arrested, and the army would soon feel the brunt of Petain's reaction.
In public, Petain's popularity seemed unassailable. Contrived opinion polls in the tamed newspapers gave him huge (and utterly falsified) ratings. Some openly called him 'saviour of the nation'. It was to be the beginning of a sinister era for the people of France.
My only problem is that I can't help but think of 'Sinister' in the meaning of 'Left', as opposed to ominous/evil...
Hendryk
Banned
Same here. Though since then I've been cursed with living out the life of Frédéric Moreau
Same here. Though since then I've been cursed with living out the life of Frédéric Moreau
Including being blackmailed into buying portraits of courtesans?
Interesting work. This joke has probably been made a zillion times by the French, but I am amused by the fact that there's a bloody Left vs Right riot in the Place de la Concorde
I wonder how the British papers are viewing this effective coup next door.
Cheers!
Britain is a bit bemused but does not feel threatened-if anything, there is a sense of relief that France appears to be vaguely stable...
Hendryk
Banned
Let's just say that my own involvement with courtesans didn't take place in Paris but turned out much the same... There was no analog to Mrs. Arnoux in my life, but the general feeling of failure is there all right. I'm currently living out the penultimate chapter. You know, "Il voyagea."Including being blackmailed into buying portraits of courtesans?
This is a fascinating timeline. Keep it coming!
I am intrigued by the possibility that European history could turn out "better" even with a Fascist France. Clerical-Fascism was not sympathetic to Nazism (look at Austria under Dolfuss). A clerical-Fascist block (France, Spain, Italy, Austria), while unpleasant, might have served to bottle up Hitler.
I am intrigued by the possibility that European history could turn out "better" even with a Fascist France. Clerical-Fascism was not sympathetic to Nazism (look at Austria under Dolfuss). A clerical-Fascist block (France, Spain, Italy, Austria), while unpleasant, might have served to bottle up Hitler.
Hmm. Have yu thought about how things will go in Eastern Europe in TTL? Not that it's something you'd need to decide in such an early point, but I wonder if this could safe much of the Eastern Europe from war? Or is it given that something must happen, at least with the Soviet Union if not with Germany?
Sorry for the delay everyone, I'm away on business.
@ Sean Mulligan: if you look at post 39, there's a bit on Ordre Nouveau. They were essentially a sort of proto-Gaullist movement (Hendryk or Faeelin may well be able to explain it a bit better).
@Hazazel and jony663: I will cover Eastern Europe in due course, but for the time being, I think that we will see France more willing to honour its commitments to Poland and Czechoslovakia than IOTL.
@Presbyman: I am indeed imagining that in this Europe, we will see clerical fascism dominate rather than Nazism. Its regressive nature, however, means that although few people will die, there will still be problems.
@ Sean Mulligan: if you look at post 39, there's a bit on Ordre Nouveau. They were essentially a sort of proto-Gaullist movement (Hendryk or Faeelin may well be able to explain it a bit better).
@Hazazel and jony663: I will cover Eastern Europe in due course, but for the time being, I think that we will see France more willing to honour its commitments to Poland and Czechoslovakia than IOTL.
@Presbyman: I am indeed imagining that in this Europe, we will see clerical fascism dominate rather than Nazism. Its regressive nature, however, means that although few people will die, there will still be problems.
I know it well. It's a real shame, L'Education always seems to be overshadowed by Madame Bovary. Although for sheer human misery, nothing in French literature quite matches Balzac's Le Pere Goriot.
It used to be in Germany that way, since Church had a much larger influenece on women and Unions a larger on men. In the 1950s Women tended to vote for Tthe Christain democrats and Men for the Socialdemocrats. That started to change in the late 60s, early 70s and is now the other way round. But we are only talking about a couple of persentages here.
On the G/general idea: Petain has (until now
) never been an important AH figure, though he is quite interesting. Keep it up, I will be following this.Don't forget about "Work, Family, Fatherland"
It used to be in Germany that way, since Church had a much larger influenece on women and Unions a larger on men. In the 1950s Women tended to vote for Tthe Christain democrats and Men for the Socialdemocrats. That started to change in the late 60s, early 70s and is now the other way round. But we are only talking about a couple of persentages here.
On the G/general idea: Petain has (until now
Don't forget about "Work, Family, Fatherland"
Yep, I'm thinking that he will become more openly reactionary as he feels more secure. His first move is to create the cult of personality.
A Bloc Forms
On the 18th March 1934, with a great deal of the initial resistance to his rule crushed and the labour movement eviscerated, Marshal Petain, President of the Council, travelled to Rome for an audience with Pope Pius XI. Pius had long been worried about the relationship between France and the Vatican, as the anti-clerical groupings in the Third Republic had long had the upper hand. For him, the new regime in France could be a God-send.
And he was not to be disappointed. Petain agreed without reservation that Catholicism would be re-introduced into schools, and even went so far as to indicate that he would officially discourage Protestantism. [1] The Church's rights in Alsace would be expanded across the nation. In return, Pius XI published an encyclical, calling on French Catholics to obey Marshal Petain and describing him as a force of moral renewal.
Whilst in Rome, Petain met another like-minded man: Antonio Salazar of Portugal. The discussions were friendly, and the two men agreed to a further meeting in Lisbon later in the year. Both expressed their concern at the state of Spain.
[1] Under the Austrofascist regime, Protestants were discriminated against-this is the model.
On the 18th March 1934, with a great deal of the initial resistance to his rule crushed and the labour movement eviscerated, Marshal Petain, President of the Council, travelled to Rome for an audience with Pope Pius XI. Pius had long been worried about the relationship between France and the Vatican, as the anti-clerical groupings in the Third Republic had long had the upper hand. For him, the new regime in France could be a God-send.
And he was not to be disappointed. Petain agreed without reservation that Catholicism would be re-introduced into schools, and even went so far as to indicate that he would officially discourage Protestantism. [1] The Church's rights in Alsace would be expanded across the nation. In return, Pius XI published an encyclical, calling on French Catholics to obey Marshal Petain and describing him as a force of moral renewal.
Whilst in Rome, Petain met another like-minded man: Antonio Salazar of Portugal. The discussions were friendly, and the two men agreed to a further meeting in Lisbon later in the year. Both expressed their concern at the state of Spain.
[1] Under the Austrofascist regime, Protestants were discriminated against-this is the model.
Interesting, but could this hurt the relationship with Benito? I believe there was a Church-State Rivalry in facist Italy.
I don't think it will, but a good point. By this point, he had made his peace with the Vatican. Plus, think of his close relationship with Franco, a Catholic reactionary if ever there were one.