PC: Possible Dynastic Union Between England and Sweden

[MarshalBraginsky]

Based on a thread established earlier with an Anglo-Danish Union, could England and Sweden have been able to form a dynastic union?

One idea that I had was this: Elizabeth Stuart, daughter of King James VI (of Scotland) and I (of England) ends up marrying Gustav II Adolf, but Anne of Denmark dies in labor when said Stuart princess is born. The benefits of a possible alliance between England and Sweden is that the Swedes won't have to rely on an alliance with France. With a possible bigger English involvement in the 30YW, we could look at a different result from that war.

Or: Erik XIV Vasa of Sweden actually becomes successful in his attempts to marry Queen Elizabeth I Tudor and he nearly became successful until he had to postpone his trip to England because of Gustav I's death.

I know that this may or may not be able to happen, but we've seen questions on Anglo-Dutch, Anglo-Danish, Anglo-French, Anglo-Spanish Unions, heck I've even seen one thread on an Anglo-Russian Union (though thankfully I have managed to find a way to do this in the sig TL, falling short of an actual dynastic union).

 

[Uhura's Mazda]

Princess Charlotte of Wales marries Gustav, Prince of Vasa. Oscar I , of the same age, is less likely, due to the Napoleonic origins of his father and the fact that a personal union would have been unavoidable. So then all you need is for Gustav to somehow get his throne back...

Your Gustav Adolf idea is the most workable and realistic, IMO. The Thirty Years War wouldn't be much changed, as OTL-Elizabeth married the Winter King of Bohemia and Britain largely stayed aloof from the whole thing. But once it becomes apparent that the Swedes are going to inherit (post-Act of Settlement, really) then there's going to be an impetus to gain Norway from the Danes to make it easier to travel between countries. Basically, everything from Christina onwards (the Deluge, the Swedish Empire, etc) will change, as will the English Civil War with the absence of Prince Rupert - maybe the Parliamentarians win Edgehill and the War is over before it begins.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Princess Charlotte of Wales marries Gustav, Prince of Vasa. Oscar I , of the same age, is less likely, due to the Napoleonic origins of his father and the fact that a personal union would have been unavoidable. So then all you need is for Gustav to somehow get his throne back...

Your Gustav Adolf idea is the most workable and realistic, IMO. The Thirty Years War wouldn't be much changed, as OTL-Elizabeth married the Winter King of Bohemia and Britain largely stayed aloof from the whole thing. But once it becomes apparent that the Swedes are going to inherit (post-Act of Settlement, really) then there's going to be an impetus to gain Norway from the Danes to make it easier to travel between countries. Basically, everything from Christina onwards (the Deluge, the Swedish Empire, etc) will change, as will the English Civil War with the absence of Prince Rupert - maybe the Parliamentarians win Edgehill and the War is over before it begins.

Yeah, compared to the pseudo-ASB chance of Erik Vasa marrying Elizabeth Tudor, and that is as much of a lucky fluke as Ivan the Terrible marrying said Tudor Queen.

How would England and Sweden in a dynastic union influence each other though?

 

[dead_wolf]

Well Denmark is in a tight spot after this.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Well Denmark is in a tight spot after this.

Well if Norway was lost, then they really are in a tight spot.

 

[Emperor Constantine]

Hm, what about having Queen Anne's son Prince William Duke of Gloucester marry Princess Ulrika Eleonora of Sweden? Assuming that her brother still dies childless (which is highly likely since Karl XII seemed to be a smarter, Protestant version of Sebastian of Portugal) then the Queen of Great Britain and Ireland is in a good position to inherit the Swedish throne.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Hm, what about having Queen Anne's son Prince William Duke of Gloucester marry Princess Ulrika Eleonora of Sweden? Assuming that her brother still dies childless (which is highly likely since Karl XII seemed to be a smarter, Protestant version of Sebastian of Portugal) then the Queen of Great Britain and Ireland is in a good position to inherit the Swedish throne.

A United Kingdom of Great Britain, Ireland and Sweden? Good idea, although there's also Denmark-Norway, which would make a union between the two countries difficult unless Norway is taken.

Since William, Duke of Glouchester's father is the Prince of Denmark-Norway, wouldn't he also have a claim on the Danish throne too?

 

[Emperor Constantine]

A United Kingdom of Great Britain, Ireland and Sweden? Good idea, although there's also Denmark-Norway, which would make a union between the two countries difficult unless Norway is taken.

Since William, Duke of Glouchester's father is the Prince of Denmark-Norway, wouldn't he also have a claim on the Danish throne too?

Actually yes. So, considering realistically neither the Swedish Estates nor the British Parliament are gonna be that keen on a Union, we'd see branches of the House of Oldenburg on the thrones of Britain, Sweden and Denmark. It'd pretty much be a northern version of the Bourbon family pacts between Spain, France and the Two Sicilies. A very interesting power bloc to be sure.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Actually yes. So, considering realistically neither the Swedish Estates nor the British Parliament are gonna be that keen on a Union, we'd see branches of the House of Oldenburg on the thrones of Britain, Sweden and Denmark. It'd pretty much be a northern version of the Bourbon family pacts between Spain, France and the Two Sicilies. A very interesting power bloc to be sure.

Though one of them would end up way stronger than the other two though.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Based on a thread established earlier with an Anglo-Danish Union, could England and Sweden have been able to form a dynastic union?

One idea that I had was this: Elizabeth Stuart, daughter of King James VI (of Scotland) and I (of England) ends up marrying Gustav II Adolf, but Anne of Denmark dies in labor when said Stuart princess is born. The benefits of a possible alliance between England and Sweden is that the Swedes won't have to rely on an alliance with France. With a possible bigger English involvement in the 30YW, we could look at a different result from that war.

Or: Erik XIV Vasa of Sweden actually becomes successful in his attempts to marry Queen Elizabeth I Tudor and he nearly became successful until he had to postpone his trip to England because of Gustav I's death.

I know that this may or may not be able to happen, but we've seen questions on Anglo-Dutch, Anglo-Danish, Anglo-French, Anglo-Spanish Unions, heck I've even seen one thread on an Anglo-Russian Union (though thankfully I have managed to find a way to do this in the sig TL, falling short of an actual dynastic union).

An interesting union cause might be the original marriage pact between Margarethe, Queen of Denmark, Norway & Sweden and Henry IV of England. The pact said that her family - Eric and Catherine of Pomerania - would marry Henry V and Philippa of England.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

An interesting union cause might be the original marriage pact between Margarethe, Queen of Denmark, Norway & Sweden and Henry IV of England. The pact said that her family - Eric and Catherine of Pomerania - would marry Henry V and Philippa of England.

Who gets to marry who?

Although the idea of the Plantagenets acquiring the thrones of tDenmark, Norway and Sweden would be an interesting scenario, I'm not sure if this will prevent the formation of the Kalmar Union now that England and Denmark have serfdom.

 

[Codae]

Who gets to marry who?

Although the idea of the Plantagenets acquiring the thrones of tDenmark, Norway and Sweden would be an interesting scenario, I'm not sure if this will prevent the formation of the Kalmar Union now that England and Denmark have serfdom.

The plan was for Philippa to marry Eric (king of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway) and for Catherine to marry Henry (Prince of Wales), but only the first marriage got carried out because Henry IV wanted a guarantee that later Lancasters could inherit the Scandinavian kingdoms if Eric's line failed and Margaret wouldn't agree to that. Instead, Catherine married into the Palatinate Wittelsbachs, Henry's sister Blanche's in-laws. In fact, when Eric was deposed, her son Christopher did take the thrones (but then he died heirless, leaving an opening for the Oldenburgs).

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

The plan was for Philippa to marry Eric (king of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway) and for Catherine to marry Henry (Prince of Wales), but only the first marriage got carried out because Henry IV wanted a guarantee that later Lancasters could inherit the Scandinavian kingdoms if Eric's line failed and Margaret wouldn't agree to that. Instead, Catherine married into the Palatinate Wittelsbachs, Henry's sister Blanche's in-laws. In fact, when Eric was deposed, her son Christopher did take the thrones (but then he died heirless, leaving an opening for the Oldenburgs).

So how would this marriage be more effective then?

 

[Codae]

So how would this marriage be more effective then?

Well, the point of marrying princes and princesses to each other was to build stronger diplomatic ties. IOTL, we had things like loaning ships from one kingdom to another to combat piracy and the establishment of a Brigittine convent in England; if the English end up with a Pomeranian queen we might see an even more reliable, unified bloc.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Well, the point of marrying princes and princesses to each other was to build stronger diplomatic ties. IOTL, we had things like loaning ships from one kingdom to another to combat piracy and the establishment of a Brigittine convent in England; if the English end up with a Pomeranian queen we might see an even more reliable, unified bloc.

The fault would primarily lie with Henry IV since his assurances of the Lancasters getting the throne torpedoed the planned union.

 

[JonasResende]

The fault would primarily lie with Henry IV since his assurances of the Lancasters getting the throne torpedoed the planned union.

So maybe Henry doesn't insist on it, and Henry V has a brood of children with the other Catherine, instead of only the one he had with OTL Madame Tudor. If Erik still dies without kids, Catherine's kids are the next reasonable choice if we're going for continuity.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

So maybe Henry doesn't insist on it, and Henry V has a brood of children with the other Catherine, instead of only the one he had with OTL Madame Tudor. If Erik still dies without kids, Catherine's kids are the next reasonable choice if we're going for continuity.

The Plantagenets owning Scandinavia? Now that would be awesome! It wouldn't be like the Kalmar Union though.

Almost forgot: that was the Lancaster Plantagenets.