PC: Portuguese Newfoundland
- Thread starter Iserlohn
- Start date
archaeogeek
Banned
It's pretty far from where their colonies are, it's isolated.
What more, during this time period, there were no long-term permanent european settlements until the end of the 17th century (NO NOT EVEN ST. JOHN'S*). At best they'd do like Spain, France and England and set up seasonal fishing outposts, some of which reached heights of a thousand people during fishing season.
*I'm preempting the newfoundlanders
The Portuguese reached Newfoundland in 1473? More info please. I had read that Basque and Bristol fishermen were fishing the Grand Banks and setting up seasonal camps on islands off Maine and Nova Scotia, but had not heard about the Portuguese.
archaeogeek
Banned
Which at the time would barely be a few thousands. Newfoundland prior to the 19th century was worth squat as a colony except for the grand banks. It would also probably be lost to the dutch anyway during the 16th century
Gold was only discovered (or claimed to be discovered) in the last years of the 1690's. The Portuguese held Brazil for almost 200 years for other reasons than gold until then.
Too far away and too costly to be kept. It would rather be other Portuguese region as Azores and Madeira.
Logically thinking, it would have been timber. What's the timber industry like in Newfoundland? It's also conceivable that Newfoundland remained a part of Portugal to this day, looking at its geographic proximity to Portugal (if they use the Azores as a stopover).
The first records of dried cod in Portugal dated from 1499 from the city of Viana, because the Vila Real Marques claims the tax on the sale of the dried cod of that year in court, he won but the city reacted and the court toke 100 years to solve the demand.
In 1506 several cities in Northern Portugal wore trading the dried cod from "Terra Nova"(Newfoundland).
There wore several attempts to settle in the area but all failed but one.
People from Viana did made a colony in an island with a bay near a cape they called "Cabo do Britão" (Cape Breton Island), other settlers wore from the city of Aveiro and from the island of Terceira, in the Azores.
There they claim to have good farming land, dried fruits in abundance and the locals wore peaceful.
Not much more is known about the colony, it looks like that it was abandoned or destroyed when some captains thought that slaves would bring them more profit then some tons of dried cod.
Lately in the reign of D. Sebastião I, there wore talks to form a new colony there because they found out the the local pines wore as good as the Baltic ones to use as masts.
But the union of the Iberian crowns in 1580 led to constant warfare with British, French and Dutch ships in the North Atlantic and even the summer fishing camps that existed at least since 1499 wore abandoned.
As the Barbados, it was used first as a refueling station to check if the Caribbean islands wore on the Portuguese side of the world or in the Castilian side.
Quickly it was used as a slave caption point to Brazil and a few farms wore created, but as the locals wore dying with the Eurasian diseases and farming was a lot better in Brazil, the island was quickly abandoned.
In 1506 several cities in Northern Portugal wore trading the dried cod from "Terra Nova"(Newfoundland).
There wore several attempts to settle in the area but all failed but one.
People from Viana did made a colony in an island with a bay near a cape they called "Cabo do Britão" (Cape Breton Island), other settlers wore from the city of Aveiro and from the island of Terceira, in the Azores.
There they claim to have good farming land, dried fruits in abundance and the locals wore peaceful.
Not much more is known about the colony, it looks like that it was abandoned or destroyed when some captains thought that slaves would bring them more profit then some tons of dried cod.
Lately in the reign of D. Sebastião I, there wore talks to form a new colony there because they found out the the local pines wore as good as the Baltic ones to use as masts.
But the union of the Iberian crowns in 1580 led to constant warfare with British, French and Dutch ships in the North Atlantic and even the summer fishing camps that existed at least since 1499 wore abandoned.
As the Barbados, it was used first as a refueling station to check if the Caribbean islands wore on the Portuguese side of the world or in the Castilian side.
Quickly it was used as a slave caption point to Brazil and a few farms wore created, but as the locals wore dying with the Eurasian diseases and farming was a lot better in Brazil, the island was quickly abandoned.
yourworstnightmare
Banned
Why on Earth would Portugal go to Newfoundland? No gold there, no slaves either, wrong climate for plantations.
Countries have gone to stranger countries, so a Portuguese Newfoundland shouldn't be an exception. Plus, it would be very cool.
The one thing that would have to be crucial is if the Portuguese here decide to make friends of the Innu/Beothuk (and, if they go further north, with the Inuit as well). The key here would be no Union of the Iberian Crowns, which would allow the Portuguese fishing settlements to survive.
Lusitania
Donor
Countries have gone to stranger countries, so a Portuguese Newfoundland shouldn't be an exception. Plus, it would be very cool.
I am sorry but I fail to see the connection with Portuguese settlement of NewFoundland and the Union of the Iberian Crowns.
What I had posted is from OTL.
Now to have a continued presence of the Portuguese in Newfoundland you must at all cost avoid the constant naval warfare with the English, French and Dutch.
For that the Hapsburgs had to have a very different European politic, something I believe almost impossible with their vast European interests and possessions.
So you must have either a union of crowns with some other ruling family, as it's the case of the DrakeRlugia TL:
The Prince of Peace
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=117902
Or you must avoid the union as it is the case of the Gonzaga's TL:
Madness and Greatness: a history of Portugal (1578 - 1640)
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=150102
Even today Portugal is one of the countries in the world that eats most sea products.
About that time there wore observed many more days in which a person couldn't eat meat, so fish was in a very big demand.
Also lately was discovered that the pines wore good to build masts, so there wore at least two good reasons for the Portuguese be interested in Newfoundland.
archaeogeek
Banned
Yes but nobody settled Newfoundland for the fish; before Plaisance (1650s) and Saint Johns (1680s) not a single colony lasted more than a few years before dying away. Most of the fishermen in the region just established seasonal outposts; it would be ridiculously wasteful to have to feed the population of a permanent colony when all you want is the cod.
True the settlement only lasted a few years, the summer fishing camps wore the main presence of Portuguese there.
But the second wave of settlements proposed by D. Sebastião I wore to explore the woods and that could became permanent.
Not really. Once you strip away some pines and find out that you can actually grow things in the soil, you might as well start with a small-scale colony. Give it some time, and soon we could make Newfie jokes - but for their dialect of Portuguese instead.
In a few places, maybe. A good many outports MADE their own soil from rotted seaweed and fish bits.Once you strip away some pines and find out that you can actually grow things in the soil, you might as well start with a small-scale colony. Give it some time, and soon we could make Newfie jokes - but for their dialect of Portuguese instead.