PC: Mussolini remembered as a hero?

[Napoleone the Kiwi]

For the love of god Trotsky, who historically advised against invading Poland, wasn't some fucking maniac hellbent on invading Europe.

And in this timeline, the invasion is successful regardless of Trotsky's opinions on the matter. Invading Europe was not on the cards, but supporting local communist movements instead of depressing them would have been entirely in character. All of the Soviets were keen on a communist Germany. The collapse of the Polish front and the lack of communist revolutions in the Imperial cores caused a great deal of anxiety to the Soviets OTL, especially as they were being invaded.

I don't understand what this means, Trotsky was a key player before 1924 and Bolshevik Russia had tried to conquer Poland and failed, him outmanoeuvering Stalin wouldn't change that.

In this timeline, the Soviets successfully take Poland. The OP is what my response was speculating based on the ATL, not OTL.

Mussolini was an opportunist, his choices were logical for the most part, he invaded Abyssinia (among other things which angered the Little Entente) was because he knew they wouldn't do much about that and joining WW2 was done because France was collapsing at that point and he expected the war to be over once France falls. If he is aligned with the Brits and French then nobody will care about the already existing Italian Empire (which to be fair is ridicoulous when compared to France or Britain) and he wouldn't invade Ethiopia had he been an ally with the France and Britain.

Ethiopia wasn't the main flash point for me, more Greece and Yugoslavia. It's why I put the Mediterranean before East Africa. With the Soviets spooking Western governments, the Balkans as a flashpoint wouldn't be unexpected (let alone a potentially Red Germany.)

 

[Lee-Sensei]

Prior to Abyssinia and intervention in the Spanish War Mussolini was popular even in the USA. If he dies in 1935 and his successors avoid those two errors and remain tied to the Stresa Front he is remembered somewhat as a hero. This of course would depend on one's political beliefs.

A controversial take, but I don’t think supporting Franco was wrong at all politically. I’m not talking about morality. Invading Ethiopia was wrong, because it was indefensible. When the war started, they had hundreds of thousands of soldiers garrisoning a large and densely populated country with thousands of years of history. One that saw the Italians as historical enemies. Mussolini got what he wanted from supporting Franco. A friendly power ruling the third strongest country in the Mediterranean. If he’d stayed neutral in World War 2, the Italians could have reaped long term benefits from it. Aside from establishing the Vatican, supporting Franco might have been his best foreign policy choice. I’m just looking at the politics of it. Not the morality.

 

[Enigmajones]

I don’t know about a hero but he could be more well liked. The thought I have is if he either remains in his prison to face trial, or he refuses Hitlers demand to lead the Italian Social Republic.

Still not popular but perhaps better remembered,

 

[Gaúcho Maldito]

It's not like the Stalin one was either, Trotsky would largely have the same forced industrialization policies than Stalin but he wouldn't purge the army, meaning that the Red Army would be a force to reckon with (even before WW2).

How do you know Trotsky wouldn't purge the army?

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

How do you know Trotsky wouldn't purge the army?

Because he is the guy who wanted tsarist officers in the army for efficiency, he's not the kind to purge all of the army (which could be one of his main powerbases) just because "Napoleon 100 years ago managed to become emperor starting by the grade of officer".

 

[Evil Crusader]

Prior to Abyssinia and intervention in the Spanish War Mussolini was popular even in the USA. If he dies in 1935 and his successors avoid those two errors and remain tied to the Stresa Front he is remembered somewhat as a hero. This of course would depend on one's political beliefs.

This. Mussolini that dies in 1935 is the man that ostensibly made Italy strong, respected, and even did decently during the hard years of the Great Depression. He would be definitely lionized, held up as this mythological example of good Fascism (especially if there's need to contrast against "bad Fascism").

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Ethiopia wasn't the main flash point for me, more Greece and Yugoslavia. It's why I put the Mediterranean before East Africa. With the Soviets spooking Western governments, the Balkans as a flashpoint wouldn't be unexpected (let alone a potentially Red Germany.)

This are France and Britain who did everything possible to avoid war with Germany, they aren't very keen on sending their armies on the other side of Europe to fight the Soviets, nor would they be able to win if they try.

 

[Napoleone the Kiwi]

This are France and Britain who did everything possible to avoid war with Germany, they aren't very keen on sending their armies on the other side of Europe to fight the Soviets, nor would they be able to win if they try.

Understanding why they were avoiding war with Germany is important. The initial belief of Hitler's rationalism was powerful in convincing the Entente to compromise constantly (that and buying time to rearm). The anxieties about the Soviet Union were fears they acted upon in the immediate post-ww1 free-for-all in Eastern Europe. They did send armies to fight the Soviets. A successful invasion of Poland in 1920 will cause major concerns for the power brokers in the UK and France, let alone Germany who had just put down the Spartacist uprising a year earlier. Mobilising the scarred working classes of France and the UK has its own issues, and likely isn't politically feasible. Different forms of sabotage may be considered by London and Paris, possibly working with more conventional fascists in Germany.

Europe is effectively the same volatile environment it was in our timeline. Lots of opportunities for populist movements, whether national or international in character.

Mussolini will probably be able to wring concessions out of the Entente in the Balkans in such an atmosphere. I guess how he is remembered depends on who is writing the history and who is reading it.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Understanding why they were avoiding war with Germany is important. The initial belief of Hitler's rationalism was powerful in convincing the Entente to compromise constantly (that and buying time to rearm). The anxieties about the Soviet Union were fears they acted upon in the immediate post-ww1 free-for-all in Eastern Europe. They did send armies to fight the Soviets. A successful invasion of Poland in 1920 will cause major concerns for the power brokers in the UK and France, let alone Germany who had just put down the Spartacist uprising a year earlier. Mobilising the scarred working classes of France and the UK has its own issues, and likely isn't politically feasible. Different forms of sabotage may be considered by London and Paris, possibly working with more conventional fascists in Germany.

It would cause significant worry among politicians in Europe, however the population doesn't want war right after WW1, no politician would survive trying to start another long and bloody conflict with the Bolsheviks.

Mussolini will probably be able to wring concessions out of the Entente in the Balkans in such an atmosphere. I guess how he is remembered depends on who is writing the history and who is reading it.

Mussolini can't really do that, one of the main reasons to not give Italy all of the promised territory was to create a strong Yugoslavia which could survive the expansion of communism as part of the "Cordon Sanitaire", Mussolini still wants Dalmatia but if the Soviets are a real threat to Europe he has more important issues (mainly supply as much right-wing movements as possible)

 

[Lee-Sensei]

It would cause significant worry among politicians in Europe, however the population doesn't want war right after WW1, no politician would survive trying to start another long and bloody conflict with the Bolsheviks.

Mussolini can't really do that, one of the main reasons to not give Italy all of the promised territory was to create a strong Yugoslavia which could survive the expansion of communism as part of the "Cordon Sanitaire", Mussolini still wants Dalmatia but if the Soviets are a real threat to Europe he has more important issues (mainly supply as much right-wing movements as possible)

In 1940, the French and to a lesser extent the British were open to concessions. I think a readjustment of Italy's Balkan border would have definitely been on the table fo neutrality. At the very least, I can see them getting what they were promised in the Treaty of London. Yugoslavia would continue to exist though. It was all about setting realistic goals. The Axis didn’t do that.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

In 1940, the French and to a lesser extent the British were open to concessions. I think a readjustment of Italy's Balkan border would have definitely been on the table fo neutrality. At the very least, I can see them getting what they were promised in the Treaty of London. Yugoslavia would continue to exist though. It was all about setting realistic goals. The Axis didn’t do that.

Fair.