PC: Margaret Tudor becomes Queen of England?

[Deleted member 200420]

In 1524, Henry VIII had a jousting accident; he forgot to lower his visor and suffered a blow to the head above his right eye. He didn’t suffer any serious damage. However, let’s say that instead this blow is more serious and he dies shortly thereafter.

He leaves behind Mary and Henry FitzRoy who has not been officially acknowledged yet and therefore not elevated.

If Mary were to die relatively early in her reign am I right in writing that James V of Scotland’s mother Margaret Tudor would become Queen? Considering that England had only recently fought Scotland in a war which killed James IV would this succession occur?

 

[Nuraghe]

In 1524, Henry VIII had a jousting accident; he forgot to lower his visor and suffered a blow to the head above his right eye. He didn’t suffer any serious damage. However, let’s say that instead this blow is more serious and he dies shortly thereafter.

He leaves behind Mary and Henry FitzRoy who has not been officially acknowledged yet and therefore not elevated.

If Mary were to die relatively early in her reign am I right in writing that James V of Scotland’s mother Margaret Tudor would become Queen? Considering that England had only recently fought Scotland in a war which killed James IV would this succession occur?

and more likely that immediately after Henry's death an attempt was made to arrange a marriage between the young James and Princess Mary ( not yet delegitimized by her father here ), to avoid possible civil wars in the kingdom ( since in this period Henry had not yet eliminated many of the noble families with the possibility of being considered as serious candidates for the succession, as well as avoiding any move by Francis or Charles ) furthermore I think that the Pope and the Emperor himself can agree on this proposal ( since it is better a Scottish king as future sovereign from England than a Valois scion ) finally considering the still young age of the two newlyweds, it is highly probable that Margaret and Catherine have to govern for them, so it would all be very interesting, especially how the matter is managed of the rapprochement of the two peoples ( who had fought strenuously until 13 years earlier ) and the subsequent collaboration of the two governments

in the event of Mary's death, it is highly likely that Margaret could make a move for the throne ( probably claiming to seek it for her son, as Henry's closest male relative ) but would face all the other factions fighting for the throne. throne ( both internal and perhaps external to the two kingdoms )

 

[HortenseMancini]

and more likely that immediately after Henry's death an attempt was made to arrange a marriage between the young James and Princess Mary ( not yet delegitimized by her father here ), to avoid possible civil wars in the kingdom ( since in this period Henry had not yet eliminated many of the noble families with the possibility of being considered as serious candidates for the succession, as well as avoiding any move by Francis or Charles ) furthermore I think that the Pope and the Emperor himself can agree on this proposal ( since it is better a Scottish king as future sovereign from England than a Valois scion ) finally considering the still young age of the two newlyweds, it is highly probable that Margaret and Catherine have to govern for them, so it would all be very interesting, especially how the matter is managed of the rapprochement of the two peoples ( who had fought strenuously until 13 years earlier ) and the subsequent collaboration of the two governments

In 1524 mary was betrothed to charles v and neither he or the english would have any reason to break that arrangement in this scenario, also margaret never seems to have pushed an english match for james iotl, even when mary was openly considered as her father's heiress

in the event of Mary's death, it is highly likely that Margaret could make a move for the throne ( probably claiming to seek it for her son, as Henry's closest male relative ) but would face all the other factions fighting for the throne. throne ( both internal and perhaps external to the two kingdoms )

If mary dies shortly after her father's death, there's probably a civil war in england between those who want james to become king and those who support the earl of lincoln, only son of henry viii's younger sister mary tudor

 

[Nuraghe]

In 1524 mary was betrothed to charles v and neither he or the english would have any reason to break that arrangement in this scenario, also margaret never seems to have pushed an english match for james iotl, even when mary was openly considered as her father's heiress

If mary dies shortly after her father's death, there's probably a civil war in england between those who want james to become king and those who support the earl of lincoln, only son of henry viii's younger sister mary tudor

I didn't know that Margaret Otl hadn't even tried as a single attempt, the possibility of marriage between her son and Mary ( given that in theory Mary would have been the heir to the throne, it's a strange thing ) can you explain to me ( please ) why ?, perhaps Margaret was trying to create an alliance with France as usual ?

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

and more likely that immediately after Henry's death an attempt was made to arrange a marriage between the young James and Princess Mary ( not yet delegitimized by her father here ), to avoid possible civil wars in the kingdom

I didn't know that Margaret Otl hadn't even tried as a single attempt, the possibility of marriage between her son and Mary ( given that in theory Mary would have been the heir to the throne, it's a strange thing ) can you explain to me ( please ) why ?, perhaps Margaret was trying to create an alliance with France as usual ?

Errr.... They were 1st cousins, no? That's a bit close, although not nearly as icky as Hapsburg marriages.
It is certainly close enough it would require a papal dispensation.

 

[HortenseMancini]

Errr.... They were 1st cousins, no? That's a bit close, although not nearly as icky as Hapsburg marriages.
It is certainly close enough it would require a papal dispensation.

yes they were first cousins but a dispensation is no issue

 

[Nuraghe]

Errr.... They were 1st cousins, no? That's a bit close, although not nearly as icky as Hapsburg marriages.
It is certainly close enough it would require a papal dispensation.

they were certainly related, but never as much as the Iberian dynasties ( who then passed this tradition to the Habsburgs, but it must be remembered that the Habsburgs were not the only ones to do so, but only the most unlucky from a genetic point of view, because the Bourbons, the Braganzas, the Aviz etc. were equally ibreeding, furthermore the Protestant Reformation exacerbated this fact ), certainly a papal dispensation would be necessary, but I don't see any political reason why Clement could be too opposed to this union

 

[Avrorrange]

Errr.... They were 1st cousins, no? That's a bit close, although not nearly as icky as Hapsburg marriages.
It is certainly close enough it would require a papal dispensation.

So was Charles and Mary, but they were betrothed.

 

[Deleted member 200420]

If mary dies shortly after her father's death, there's probably a civil war in england between those who want james to become king and those who support the earl of lincoln, only son of henry viii's younger sister mary tudor

If there was a push to put Henry Brandon on the throne then there likely isn't a civil war in England because the English nobility would much rather have one of their own as king and Scotland wouldn't be able to do much about it. To simplify the scenario a little bit, lets have Henry die shortly after he is born--at that point would James just be married to Frances Brandon in order to shore up claims?

 

[HortenseMancini]

If there was a push to put Henry Brandon on the throne then there likely isn't a civil war in England because the English nobility would much rather have one of their own as king and Scotland wouldn't be able to do much about it. To simplify the scenario a little bit, lets have Henry die shortly after he is born--at that point would James just be married to Frances Brandon in order to shore up claims?

Well the Scots have an army of their own, and there will no doubt be some among the English nobility who support James

 

[Deleted member 200420]

I want to amend this scenario and propose something else. Suppose Henry VII lives longer--his mother lived to 66 and grandmother to her 70s IIRC--and lets say all these events transpire within Henry VII's reign. So lets say he dies in 1529, Mary dies in 1526. Lets also say Mary Tudor (daughter of Henry VII) dies in childbirth in 1516. So no alternative Brandon claim. Does Margaret Stuart or at least her son stand a chance of inheriting?

 

[isabella]

I want to amend this scenario and propose something else. Suppose Henry VII lives longer--his mother lived to 66 and grandmother to her 70s IIRC--and lets say all these events transpire within Henry VII's reign. So lets say he dies in 1529, Mary dies in 1526. Lets also say Mary Tudor (daughter of Henry VII) dies in childbirth in 1516. So no alternative Brandon claim. Does Margaret Stuart or at least her son stand a chance of inheriting?

Mary Tudor (Henry VIII’s daughter) would NEVER be born in this scenario and Henry VIII would not have the OTL succession troubles if his father lived longer as he would marry Eleanor of Austria as planned

 

[Deleted member 200420]

Mary Tudor (Henry VIII’s daughter) would NEVER be born in this scenario and Henry VIII would not have the OTL succession troubles if his father lived longer as he would marry Eleanor of Austria as planned

Okay... something like this then.
Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales (1491-1519) m. Eleanor of Austria (1498-1558)
- Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales (1517-1526)
- Stillborn son (b. 1520)

 

[Deleted member 200420]

Hold on--so if Henry VIII and Eleanor of Austria had lots of issue, and then Charles V and Ferdinand I died without any issue, would the Tudors have inherited the Habsburg realms?

 

[isabella]

Hold on--so if Henry VIII and Eleanor of Austria had lots of issue, and then Charles V and Ferdinand I died without any issue, would the Tudors have inherited the Habsburg realms?

Yes, if her brothers died childless Eleanor‘s children would inherit Castile, Aragon and the Burgundian lands. Not Austria, who was reserved to the male line only and would go to Louis II of Hungary for the mutual succession pact between Maximilian I and Vladislaus II