PC: Entheogens in European religion?

[SavoyTruffle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen

One pattern I've noticed with most substances of its ilk is that with the obvious exception of alcohol, entheogens tend to be far more often associated with New World religious practices. Not that Europe lacked for stuff like opium and fly agaric in say, Scandinavia.

So how would you go about keeping a religion that practices consumption of entheogens in Europe?

 

[The Professor]

A weaker early Christianity that is more reliant on incorporating the mystery cults could see their inclusion in communion or similar rites.

 

[LSCatilina]

European religions tended to see these, culturally-wise, as "cheating" your way into the divine and desacralizing it, which in a trifunctional society, was both socially and cosmologically wrong (Scythes used wild cannabis, but it have little to none psychotrop effects). Not that it wasn't used, but they're more tied with magical uses which was a twin to "established" religion, only bypassing and forcing your way and will in.

Indo-Iranian soma, for instance, doesn't seem to be a psychoactive beverage if that real (it's probably it got mixed at some point with an equivalent of nectar/ambrosia)

You could reach such an objective with diminishing as much this stanard background, such as with shamanism on steroids, some cannabis use in highlhand India, or even with the hellenic Mysteries cult IOTL.

 

[Mongo]

Indo-Iranian soma, for instance, doesn't seem to be a psychoactive beverage if that real (it's probably it got mixed at some point with an equivalent of nectar/ambrosia)

Soma was certainly non-psychoactive once the Vedics had settled in the Indus plain, but there is evidence that when they were still living in Central Asia, it was in fact an incredibly powerful combination of psychoactive drugs. I have a book which I cannot find right now, which describes how the descriptions of making soma in the Rig-Veda would fit the use of two wild plants found only in restricted areas of Central Asia where the proto-Indo-Iranians once lived.

One plant contained an extremely powerful hallucinogen that was so powerful that ingesting it would cause you to fall asleep in seconds. The other plant contained an equally powerful stimulant that in combination with the first, in the correct ratio, would keep you conscious throughout the experience. The relevant verses in the Rig-Veda describe the specific processing method that would be needed to produce a liquid with the correct safe mixture of the two drugs. According to people who have tried ingesting the liquid produced from those two plants using the Rig-Vedic procedure, it produces an extremely intense and spiritually significant experience.

I will try to locate the book when I have a chance.

 

[123456789blaaa]

European religions tended to see these, culturally-wise, as "cheating" your way into the divine and desacralizing it, which in a trifunctional society, was both socially and cosmologically wrong (Scythes used wild cannabis, but it have little to none psychotrop effects). Not that it wasn't used, but they're more tied with magical uses which was a twin to "established" religion, only bypassing and forcing your way and will in.

Indo-Iranian soma, for instance, doesn't seem to be a psychoactive beverage if that real (it's probably it got mixed at some point with an equivalent of nectar/ambrosia)

You could reach such an objective with diminishing as much this stanard background, such as with shamanism on steroids, some cannabis use in highlhand India, or even with the hellenic Mysteries cult IOTL.

Any ideas on why they were regarded as "cheating" in Europe? What do you mean by "trifunctional society"?

 

[mrmandias]

I think trifunctional means Warrior-Priest-Merchant, and cheating means something like that you are using a drug to achieve the effects that "real priests" get through years of ascetic discipline.

 

[RedNation]

A weaker early Christianity that is more reliant on incorporating the mystery cults could see their inclusion in communion or similar rites.

Hopefully this would serve to break apart the bigoted nature of European culture and society in the alt-Middle-Ages.

 

[LSCatilina]

Any ideas on why they were regarded as "cheating" in Europe?

Mostly because what I think was a social-cosmogonical clearer and more cloisonment of the divine from the population. Relations with it were more socially and culturally the deed of a determined group, tied with rulership or magic/divination. It's more or less what @mrmandias said, altough less moralistic and more social and ritual. An infragement on the natural order, so to speak.

What do you mean by "trifunctional society"?

Essentially the proto-historic cosmogony (and its social applications) on an universe divided on three functions (sovereignity/magic; warring, producing). In historical times, it mostly disappeared but cultural/social artifacts remained which were largely re-imagined and re-interpreted.

Soma was certainly non-psychoactive once the Vedics had settled in the Indus plain, but there is evidence that when they were still living in Central Asia, it was in fact an incredibly powerful combination of psychoactive drugs. I have a book which I cannot find right now, which describes how the descriptions of making soma in the Rig-Veda would fit the use of two wild plants found only in restricted areas of Central Asia where the proto-Indo-Iranians once lived.

You mean ephedra? I'm myself a skeptic, not as much on the choice of the plant, but to describe it as a super-potent hallucinogen following ancient recipes. I'm, that said, not really learned on this precise topic, so if you can locate the book I'd be genuinly interested.

 

[Thesaurus Rex]

European religions tended to see these, culturally-wise, as "cheating" your way into the divine and desacralizing it, which in a trifunctional society, was both socially and cosmologically wrong (Scythes used wild cannabis, but it have little to none psychotrop effects). Not that it wasn't used, but they're more tied with magical uses which was a twin to "established" religion, only bypassing and forcing your way and will in.

Indo-Iranian soma, for instance, doesn't seem to be a psychoactive beverage if that real (it's probably it got mixed at some point with an equivalent of nectar/ambrosia)

You could reach such an objective with diminishing as much this stanard background, such as with shamanism on steroids, some cannabis use in highlhand India, or even with the hellenic Mysteries cult IOTL.

That reminds me of how Ruth Benedict applied Nietzsche's ideas into Apollonian and Dionysian cultures. Which isn't considered a wholly effective dichotomy today, but still has a certain bit of merit.

 

[Mongo]

You mean ephedra? I'm myself a skeptic, not as much on the choice of the plant, but to describe it as a super-potent hallucinogen following ancient recipes. I'm, that said, not really learned on this precise topic, so if you can locate the book I'd be genuinly interested.

Ephedra was one of the components, but I believe it was the stimulant portion of the combination. The potent hallucinogen was in some plant I had never heard of before.

 

[Salvador79]

Hopefully this would serve to break apart the bigoted nature of European culture and society in the alt-Middle-Ages.

It could. On the downside, it could very well mean detached elitism of religion. After all, the Christian emphasis on morality can also be seen as a progress compared to a society where the lower classes are free to do whatever they desire (if they can) because they are not deemed relevant anyway.

I would indeed think the mystery cults are the closest we had to entheogeny. Having them play a major role in post-antiquity society is an interesting challenge deserving of its own WI thread.

 

[Mongo]

You mean ephedra? I'm myself a skeptic, not as much on the choice of the plant, but to describe it as a super-potent hallucinogen following ancient recipes. I'm, that said, not really learned on this precise topic, so if you can locate the book I'd be genuinly interested.

Still cannot find the book -- which is very frustrating, since I recall seeing it just a few weeks ago. But I Googled "soma + ephedra" and found what may be the other plant: Peganum harmala, which contains the hallucinogen Harmaline. This substance also occurs in South America, and is used in the ayahuasca ceremony.

I found this description of the psychotropic effects of harmala here.

The harmala alkaloids are psychoactive in man at oral doses of 25 to 750 milligrams. A small dose (25.50 milligrams) is a CNS stimulant. It increases mental activity and produces a pleasant dreamy state for several hours. The larger doses-- 200 milligrams up to 750 milligrams--yield the hallucinogenic effects. The experience usually begins within one hour and often lasts six hours or more.

The initial effects include nausea, vomitting, increased blood pressure and heart rate, profuse sweating, dizziness and body tremors. During this initial period you may hear humming or buzzing noises and you may notice a wave-like movement of the environment. You may feel alternations of hot and cold, You may even experience the feeling of sinking together with the sensation of flight.

These initial effects can be discomforting. They tend to produce anxiety and encourage a withdrawal from the external world. You will probably perceive environmental sights and sounds, especially other persons, as disturbing objects and wish to avoid them. Seek a dark, quiet place where you can enjoy the hallucinatory trance which follows.

The hallucinatory trance consists of three successive stages of hallucinations. You will know stage one when your sense of darkness is interrupted by bright flickers of light. These phosphene-based sensations first appear as colored dots, specks, stars or simple flowers. They give way to undulating lines, circles, grids, simple forms, abstract designs and multi-shaped geometrical patterns. Relax and enjoy a closed-eye contemplation of the floating, ever-changing pattern of these little images.

In stage two the abstract designs of stage one give way to slowly moving masses of shapes and colors. Larger shapes take form in a slowly developing pattern of hallucinatory images. These images acquire a personal character as your unconscious mind projects your fears and desires upon the shapes and colors of your visions. Do not be alarmed if the horizon seems to collapse in a bright flash of light or if your hallucinations turn into frightening animals. Huge birds of prey, large jaguars and snakes are common hallucinations with harmala alkaloids. Observe and enjoy the bright colored imagery as it changes continually in a flowing transformation of dream-like sequences.

Hours later, in stage three, this panorama of vivid fantasy fades into the slow movement of shapes and colors. These images disappear, in turn, as the last stage of the hallucinatory trance wears off. If your harmala experiment is part of a group experience, you may be surprised by the unusual similarity in the content of each other's hallucinations. The harmala alkaloids tend to produce collective hallucinations--especially archetypal imagery--among group members. This access to "collective unconscious" is such an extraordinary effect that the harmala alkaloids have earned the name "telepathines".

 

[Prism]

Dyonisian Mystery cults tended to use wine as an entheogen,followers of Eleusinian Mysteries used a drink called kykeon,it's speculated that Viking Berserkers used fly agaric to bring about their state,some state that the opium poppy was used by Germanic tribes and evidently early Christians may'v used cannabis and possibly mushrooms. One of the accusations leveled at the accused during the Witch Hunts were consumption of disgusting potions involving entheogens among other things. And beer,wine,cider,mead and other alcoholic beverages were considered by many seperate European religions to be gifts from the gods. So there were entheogens present in European religions,just most were alcoholic.

 

[The Professor]

I found this description of the psychotropic effects of harmala here.

Is that the same guy who researched LSD in the 70s/80s?