Other Potential Dynasties Taking Root in Russia

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
Suppose either Filaret or Mikhail Romanov is killed sometime before 1612, either poisoned, during a battle, or some other tragic demise that anyone can think of. Now, I'm having a hard time on deciding on which clan should succeed the Rurikid dynasty, so here are the options:

1) House of Shuisky: Vasily Shuisky or his cousin Mikhail Skopin-Shuisky could have ruled Russia longer if they had enough support from the nobility, but they never got the support needed.

2) House of Vasa (Polish branch): In 1612, the Seven Boyars chose Wladyslaw Vasa as a candidate for the Russian throne, provided that he converts to the Orthodox faith. He could have had a chance to do so, but his father Sigismund opposed the selection and thought of ruling Russia as a Catholic Tsar. Which of course, never worked.

3) House of Vasa (Swedish branch): Ksenia Godunova was supposed to marry one of the Swedish Vasa princes (Gustav of Sweden) but the first candidate showed disinterest in marrying her. To make it worse, Ksenia's second candidate for bridegroom fell sick before he can reach Moscow, leaving her as a maiden.

4) House of Jagiellon/Bathory: Was there a possible chance that Russia could have selected Stephen Bathory as a potential tsar, as Tsar Stepan I Bathory?

5) House of Godunov: Now this dynasty could have survived if Feodor II didn't get killed during the Times of Troubles. I'm not sure on how Feodor II can survive.
 

Prem_Rack

About the Polish Vasas: In 1600, before the Times of Troubles, there was a Polish-Lithuanian diplomatic mission to Moscow offering a "Survival Pact" between Boris Godunov and Sigismund Vasa (the one who lived longer would inherit from the other). Of course, there was small issue of P-L crown being elective so nothing come out of this.
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
Could have worked if it wasn't for the fact that False Dmitry II had already been killed. Also, the Godunov-Sapieha negotiations could have gone successful if the PLC side gave more concessions to Muscovy.
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
Prem_Rack said:
About the Polish Vasas: In 1600, before the Times of Troubles, there was a Polish-Lithuanian diplomatic mission to Moscow offering a "Survival Pact" between Boris Godunov and Sigismund Vasa (the one who lived longer would inherit from the other). Of course, there was small issue of P-L crown being elective so nothing come out of this.
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What would it take for Anastasia Romanovna to survive longer than 1560? Her death was the reason why Ivan went insane, so if she survives, could that also prevent Ivan's insanity from taking hold?
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
Pozharsky? The only downside to that is the fact that his family went extinct in 1672. Unless of course, he has grandsons that could continue the line.
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
A Russia under the House of Zarutsky? Interesting indeed, and the fact that Zarutsky tried to kill Pozharsky was worth noting. Also, Zarutsky was a Cossack ataman, so could we see a Russian 'shogunate'/hetmanate existing?
 
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chornedsnorkack

MarshalBraginsky said:
A Russia under the House of Zarutsky? Interesting indeed, and the fact that Zarutsky tried to kill Pozharsky was worth noting.
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That depends on what Zarutsky takes as his long term position after victory. Especially if Czar Ivan Dmitrevich gets little half-brethren... what will Zarutsky do about his red-headed stepchild (or what colour was Czar Ivan V-s hair?)
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
On the other hand, what is the probability of Russia falling under Cossack rule? A Cossack Hetmanate in Muscovy, could either Zarutsky, Razin or even Pugachev (although this means the Hetmanate can be established later on) lead it?
 

The Ubbergeek

Is it possible, a twist, to have a cut, splintered, etc Russia and 2 or even more opposing states, perhaps two dynasties, or branches of same dynasty, competing?
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
The Ubbergeek said:
Is it possible, a twist, to have a cut, splintered, etc Russia and 2 or even more opposing states, perhaps two dynasties, or branches of same dynasty, competing?
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Even better: can we have a Russian style 'Sengoku Period', in which we can have a civil war after Ivan IV's death, with either Pozharsky or a member of the Dolgorukov family? I believe that possibly if Vladimir Timofeyevich Dolgorukov could become the new Tsar of Russia after a brutal Sengoku-style civil war, he can actually outlast even Pozharsky himself. Of course, the Dolgorukovs were also descended from Artaxerxes I of Persia, or so it was told.
 

RGB

MarshalBraginsky said:
Swedish Vasa Tsar or Charles XII curbstomping Peter the Great or Sweden conquers Kievan Rus'?
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Considering Kievan Rus had become several un-unitable Grand Principalities by the time Sweden even became anything like a real kingdom, that second option seems really curious ;)
 
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