Other cities that could have been analogues to the City of Rome?

[Deleted member 114175]

Other than Rome, are there any other cities that could rise from a city-state, to a large and expansive realm named after that city, all the while transitioning from a monarchy to a republic to an empire?

The early period of the city should be full of mythologized drama and dominated by other cultural spheres or empires. The middle period should see the consolidation of the peninsula or general region that the city is located on, as it defeats many enemies and conquers them. The late period should see the empire based on the city dominating its surroundings, and facing wide-scale political changes.

We don't necessarily have to remove the original Rome, or start in the same time period.

For example, we could start in say, Trapezus in 800 AD. Suppose an Arab fortress is refounded on the site of Trapezus but after several back-and-forth wars between the Byzantines and Arabs in which both sides lose control, Trapezus becomes an independent Armenian kingdom, which is also a city-state. Then slowly Trapezus begins to rise and colonize the Pontic Steppe like Genoa would later, escaping domination by Seljuks as a semi-autonomous vassal, breaking out and then starting to unify Anatolia and the Armenian Highlands. Now, this may not be the perfect location due to the amount of large empires that would pass through the area, but it's just an example.

What do you think? What cities or strategic locations could have created a Rome analogue?

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

Carthage wins and one of the Barcids proclaims themselves emperor.

 

[cmakk1012]

Carthage, easy.

Greek Massilia, maybe? If they leveraged their advantageous trade position in Gaul into a political sphere of influence.

If we’re talking later, like medieval era, I could see an Arabian port city pulling off a greater version of the OTL Omani Empire.

 

[NegusNegast]

The Kilwa Sultanate OTL could have fulfilled this, had it turned its loose thalassocracy into a more centralized state.

Alternatively, if you want an example that includes a monarchy -> republic -> empire transition, the OTL Songhai Empire was centered around Gao, which then fell to the Moroccans who turned it and the other cities of the Niger core over to the Pashalik of Timbuktu. The leaders of the Pashalik were elected from among the Armas people, the descendants of the Moroccan invaders. A more successful Pashalik could leverage its connections to Morocco to import even more guns and subjugate its West African rivals, and could very well end up reverting to a hereditary monarchial structure like Rome did in the process. It's not a perfect Rome analogue, as iirc the Pashalik never had a purely city-state phase, but it's probably a good bet for an empire that is 1) named after a city and 2) transitions from monarchy to republic (with Moroccan invasion) and then republic to empire (in the process of expanding).

 

[RyuDrago]

The Atzecs, because pre-Columbian Mexico was a patchwork of city states and the Atzecs were the Tenochna, the people of Tenochtitlan and in short their empire was a sort of pre-social war Roman Italy, with territories hold by them and other by federate city states.

 

[Deleted member 114175]

Hmm, I wonder if a particularly fortunate El Cid's dynasty of Valencia could pull this off.

El Cid's Principality of Valencia could begin as a feudal monarchy on the border of the warring Christian kingdoms and Muslim al-Andalus, and the city itself being mixed between those groups (a bit like ancient Rome's situation with the Etruscans and Greeks). If the Almoravids unravel earlier and the Christian kingdoms succumb to infighting, it may be possible for the Valencians gradually expand their control to what would have been the Crown of Aragon.

At the same time, mercantile interests and an emerging middle class demand a republic in the manner of the Italian city-states, establishing a Valencian Republic where the feudal vassals and co-princes become urban allies. But those same strategic interests across the Mediterranean also cause growing imperialism, conquests of many lands such as Greece, Southern Italy, and Tunisia, and as a result the inevitable expiration of the same Republic.

Various Crusade and non-Crusade expeditions across the Mediterranean enrich powerful patricians in Valencia who use their newfound wealth and fame to eliminate their competitors. As they fight among themselves with the goal of becoming sole ruler of the Republic, various civil wars and coups ensue. Eventually an autocracy is established, with or without Papal approval, the Valencian Empire is declared, which continues its role as rising power in the Mediterranean.

 

[edgeworthy]

Syracuse ... post the Athenian Expedition they expand to take over the whole of Sicily, discuss?

 

[Kaze]

How about a real world one --

Venice.

Venice was a combination of a monarchy and a republic. It created a great empire that stretched to half the Med.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Naples, perhaps as the fulcrum of a unified Magna Graecia if the Romans are defeated or wiped out

 

[wolfhound817]

Syracuse ... post the Athenian Expedition they expand to take over the whole of Sicily, discuss?

I was going to say Syracuse, they were already very influential but definitely could have become more powerful

 

[alex costa]

I am gonna put the obvious choice. Athens. Having them beat Sparta in the Pelloponesian war could be a start to them eventually becoming an Empire.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Tarentum

 

[DanMcCollum]

I'm gonna bat for left field:

How about Kapilavastu? It was an Indian city-state, a republic, and was believed to have been the home of the Buddha. So you could see it carve out an Empire, make the republic-to-Empire transition AND it would be the birthplace of a major world faith!

 

[L1ght5aber]

Maybe a long shot given how little we know about it, but what about Tartessos?

It was well known in antiquity for superior metalwork, particularly bronze due to the tin deposits in southern Iberia. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine the settlement starting out as a monarchy or autocracy, slowly growing its class of artisans and traders as its metalwork became famous, and becoming a republic when those artisans/merchants found that their influence exceeded the ruler's. From there, the Tartessians would need to become more expansionist, maybe due to negative interactions with Phoenician colonizers and traders, giving them an incentive to expand. Maybe they expand eastward along the Iberian and North African coastlines, competing with the Phoenicians as they go, until the rivalry becomes heated enough that they decide to pull a Carthago Delenda Est.

At that point, assuming that they don't run into the same societal collapse that destroyed them IRL, they'd have the western Med on lock, at least where trade is concerned. Tartessian influence would continue to spread along the Iberian coastline and into southern Gaul and northern Italy. The rich merchants only get richer and coalesce into a sort of patrician aristocracy. Eventually one of the families gains influence, maybe from conflicts with the Greeks in Sicily, and overthrows the other patrician families, proclaiming a Tartessian empire that encompasses the entire Western Mediterranean.

Again, this is a bit of a stretch.. but history seems to like those sometimes.

 

[dandan_noodles]

I am gonna put the obvious choice. Athens. Having them beat Sparta in the Pelloponesian war could be a start to them eventually becoming an Empire.

Doubt it. If Athens started getting too powerful, the Persians would start putting their thumbs on the scale harder; they financed the destruction of Athens' empire with pocket change.