Osman Reborn; The Survival of Ottoman Democracy [An Ottoman TL set in the 1900s]
- Thread starter Sarthak
- Start date
looks like Cadorna will guarantee that Sardinia goes better than Gallipoli did, possibly saves Churchill's bacon. ..... Speaking of Gallipoli mot having it or an equivalent ittl cant harm Anglo-Australian relations.
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While Sardinia goes well, I almost wonder if that will come to bite the Entente in time. The lesson of Sardinia should be that fighting a dumb opponent is easy. However, the Entente might take the wrong lessons, those being that fighting Italians is easy or fighting naval landings is easy, which could lead to an even more disastrous version of Gallipoli if they try a naval assault on Rome.
Ottoman Census - 1915
Ottoman Empire Census, December 1 - 31, 1915
Total Population: 23,183,854
Ethnic Groups:-
Religions:-
Total Population: 23,183,854
Ethnic Groups:-
| No. | Name of Ethnic Group | Population | % of total population |
| 1. | Turks | 8,886,697 | 38% |
| 2. | Arabs | 7,349,811 | 31.7% |
| 3. | Greeks | 3,162,754 | 13.64% |
| 4. | Armenians | 1,268,530 | 5.47% |
| 5. | Albanians | 953,318 | 4% |
| 6. | Bulgarians/Macedonians/Slavs | 840,826 | 3.62% |
| 7. | Jews | 340,872 | 1.47% |
| 8. | Protestant | 62,336 | 0.26% |
| 9. | Chechens, Circassians, Dagestanis, Ossetians | 192,948 | 0.83% |
| 10. | Others | 181,862 | 0.78% |
Religions:-
| No. | Religion | Total Population | % of total population |
| 1. | Muslim | 17,388,123 | 75% |
| 2. | Christians | 5,454,859 | 23.52% |
| 3. | Jews | 340,872 | 1.47% |
We'll see........
Indeed, perhaps the best lesson from the entire campaign right now
Unfortunately this is also very possible.
Don't buy into the 'Gallipoli ruined Aussie relations with the UK' myth. That was largely constructed post-war. Australia left WW1 as it entered- fervently Imperial loyalist. What changed was that the bloodshed- not the circumstances of the bloodshed but the nature of it- meant that Australia (and Canada, and NZ) considered themselves to had paid 'the blood price' that entitled them to an independent voice at the Paris Peace Conference.
The vast majority of ANZAC casualties did not take place at Gallipoli, they took place on the Western Front. In this timeline I expect very little will change in terms of the substance of Australasian relations with the Empire, but the absence of ANZAC day will have longer term cultural effects. Those are actually more likely to take effect in the late twentieth century when the ANZAC myths were really revived and given new life by local films, music and literature.
The vast majority of ANZAC casualties did not take place at Gallipoli, they took place on the Western Front. In this timeline I expect very little will change in terms of the substance of Australasian relations with the Empire, but the absence of ANZAC day will have longer term cultural effects. Those are actually more likely to take effect in the late twentieth century when the ANZAC myths were really revived and given new life by local films, music and literature.
Basra I feel will be a major economic zone of the empire once oil is discovered in the 30s, and same with eastern Arabia.
Libya too will get extremely wealthy given its enormous wealth and strategic location.
With voting universal minorities such as Druze, Alawites, Yazidis and Shabak will probably support the empire majorly.
With more stable governance and democratic traditions being established, TTL levant will have a good future, (until the 70s even otl it was considered a very modern part of the Arab world) I think Beirut, Damascus, Aleppo and perhaps Latakia and Tartus in the future have the potential to be economic hubs. Though unlike Iraq or east Arabia Syria and Lebanon arent “super” resource rich, Israel has shown that it is still possible to be economically prosperous without a ton of resources; and the fact Ottoman Empire is doing very good in development infrastructure and local governance will go miles.
Quite frankly, every region in the empire seems poised to do better, which I suppose is part of the timeline.
and the rise of Ottoman feminism should go miles too, even economically as women will be able to help growth far more.
I also figure now with warm ties with Iran there is a golden opportunity to calm sectarian grudges and cooperate with infrastructure buildinf
so I learned something about ottoman Mecca. Apparently during this time the Masjid al Haram had four different imams, one each for Sunni fiqh, hanbali Maliki shafi hanafi.
The Middle East TTL like OTL East Asian behemoths (Japan Korea Tawain Singapore) seems like it will be culturally distinct from Europe, but will be prosperous developed and democratic in its own way, and have a very major role in global community.
Libya too will get extremely wealthy given its enormous wealth and strategic location.
With voting universal minorities such as Druze, Alawites, Yazidis and Shabak will probably support the empire majorly.
With more stable governance and democratic traditions being established, TTL levant will have a good future, (until the 70s even otl it was considered a very modern part of the Arab world) I think Beirut, Damascus, Aleppo and perhaps Latakia and Tartus in the future have the potential to be economic hubs. Though unlike Iraq or east Arabia Syria and Lebanon arent “super” resource rich, Israel has shown that it is still possible to be economically prosperous without a ton of resources; and the fact Ottoman Empire is doing very good in development infrastructure and local governance will go miles.
Quite frankly, every region in the empire seems poised to do better, which I suppose is part of the timeline.
and the rise of Ottoman feminism should go miles too, even economically as women will be able to help growth far more.
I also figure now with warm ties with Iran there is a golden opportunity to calm sectarian grudges and cooperate with infrastructure buildinf
so I learned something about ottoman Mecca. Apparently during this time the Masjid al Haram had four different imams, one each for Sunni fiqh, hanbali Maliki shafi hanafi.
The Middle East TTL like OTL East Asian behemoths (Japan Korea Tawain Singapore) seems like it will be culturally distinct from Europe, but will be prosperous developed and democratic in its own way, and have a very major role in global community.
true enough
and even during Gallipoli the British and French had higher casualties than ANZAC. The cultural effects in Oceania will be large though
It already is a hub due to being the largest ottoman port in the persian gulf
Indeed, right at the central Mediterranean. Kinda like a Mega Kaliningrad
In Majority yeah
The Levant will remain a developed part of the Muslim World here, no doubt about that
kind off
Indeed, the increased capital and manpower will be useful for the economy
Iran........has an interesting future ahead of itself
Yeah, there were 4 Imams during this time.
Due to the Ottoman presence in the Balkans, the Ottomans will be more of a Transcontinental country like Russia.
Deleted member 117308
So Italy is going to have a revolution...
Does this confirm that the Entente is going to win?
I'm suprised that so far there is no mention of Nepal yet in this tl.
Joke aside, Churchill really lucky here that Cardona is the one who defend Sardinia. Anyone else with a slight competence will give the Allies hard time. I wonder if he will come up with more grandiose plan after this, like amphibious assault against the German for example.
Wilson more or less set himself to become worst president after Buchanan eh? Well good for him then. Surely this time his reputation wil be in mud.
To the Ottoman, hope to see the their nascent aviation industry continue to develop further not just for military purposes but hopefully have civilian uses in the future too. Speaking about it i found some interesting figure like Ahmet Ali https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Ali_Çelikten he is an Afro-Turk and was one of the first black pilot in the history. With the Ottoman Aviation play more role this time, maybe he can take more interesting role in it too.
Joke aside, Churchill really lucky here that Cardona is the one who defend Sardinia. Anyone else with a slight competence will give the Allies hard time. I wonder if he will come up with more grandiose plan after this, like amphibious assault against the German for example.
Wilson more or less set himself to become worst president after Buchanan eh? Well good for him then. Surely this time his reputation wil be in mud.
To the Ottoman, hope to see the their nascent aviation industry continue to develop further not just for military purposes but hopefully have civilian uses in the future too. Speaking about it i found some interesting figure like Ahmet Ali https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Ali_Çelikten he is an Afro-Turk and was one of the first black pilot in the history. With the Ottoman Aviation play more role this time, maybe he can take more interesting role in it too.
The Central Powers still face the same problem they had in our timeline- so long as the Royal Navy blockade is intact, the odds shift, little by little, in the face of the Entente. I expect a key trigger point for the Italian Revolution to be hunger.
The colonial war wiill be covered in one whole chapter, but to answer no Vorbeck isn't in East Africa. He was slated to return to Germany in December, 1914 otl itself.