Osman Reborn; The Survival of Ottoman Democracy [An Ottoman TL set in the 1900s]
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Feminist organizations (especially in Germany) will be set back years in the field of political leadership due to there opponents pointing out that a women leader lacked the strength to negotiate and lead a nation and conspiracists will think that a women was push into office by faction(xyz) to weaken Germany (even though the entant wasn’t going to negotiate with any leadership in Germany)
Vignette #2: The Radicals
Vignette #2: The Radicals
***
David Ben-Gurion idly wondered what the hell he had been drinking when he agreed to meet with the people that Ben-zvi was eager to introduce him with. He had already taken an earful of angry mutterings and shouts from his wife, and frankly, he couldn’t blame her. His life in Thessaloniki or if you were Turkish like Ben-Gurion’s wife, Salonika was good. He had a stable political career, as one of the city’s premier politicians, and he had already made a good name for himself as a former veteran of the army. His wife was the column editor of the local English newspapers as well, and earned good sums of money. He didn’t want to be drawn into the world of radical Zionism, like his friend Yitzhak.
Small thumps on the door was heard, and Ben-Gurion sighed. He received a pointed look from his wife, Jihaan, as she pointedly looked at him before cradling their son, Ariel and lifting him up and retreating back into their room. David gulped slightly and took a big sigh before walking up to the front door and opened it slowly. The features, most especially the laugh lines of his friend, Yitzhak Ben-zvi could be seen perfectly, and the rough but lean feature of the man that he had brought with him, Israel Shochat could be seen perfectly as well.
“Come on in.” David flourished and gestured. The two men muttered greetings and entered the small house and sat down in the living room. Yitzhak was pointedly glaring at David. David ignored him. He was wearing his Fez hat as a message and Yitzhak seemed to recognize that. After a few moments of pointed silence, David spoke up. “I believe you two gentlemen have a proposal for me?”
Shochat leaned forward and stippled his fingers before looking at David. “I have heard that when you were young, you were heavily involved in the Zionist cause.”
“I was.” David answered shortly.
“Was?” Shochat questioned. “What happened to that belief then? What about now?”
“I am a member of the Ottoman Jewish Front Organization. It’s leader in the Vilayet of Salonika actually.” David answered tersely.
Shochat’s eyebrows disappeared into his hairline in surprise or anger, and his face seemed to take on an angry disposition. “The OJFO? They’re traitors you realize?”
“Traitors?” David asked, mentally asking to the heavens why he didn’t take the advice of his wife of not drinking so often.
“They have given up the dream of an independent Israel haven’t they? Consorting with the Turks!” Shochat hissed as he seemed to be make gestures with his hand that didn’t make sense to David in particular.
“I am unsure whether my friend Yitzhak here mentioned this to you.” David began slowly. “But I have given up on that dream too.”
“So I have heard.” Shochat answered back smoothly. “But I do not believe that.”
David clenched his eyes and sighed. He leaned back. “It’s a long story.”
“I have all the time in the world Mr. Ben-Gurion.”
“In 1906, I immigrated to this empire with my childhood sweetheart, Rachel Nelkin, Yitzhak can fill in for her if he has the time.” David began slowly choosing his words as he was lost in a sea of reminiscence. “I came to Palestine to lead the Aliyah movement and secure the foundation of a future independent Israel. And even though I blatantly talked at times about ‘political independence’ for Jews in the Empire, do you know how the Arabs treated me? They treated me with kindness. In Jaffa, I was loved by the Arabs. They called me David Saheb. That was when I felt the first crack in my disposition.”
Shochat seemed to be angry at the explanation but he didn’t interrupt. Yitzhak of course knew, so he kept quiet.
“In 1911 I enrolled in the University of this City, the one near the pier by the way, and despite my status as a political agitator I was allowed education in the Empire.” David continued softly. “Cracks began to show then as well. But in 1915, the ultimate thing happened after completing my studies. The Bulgarians, Montenegrins and Serbians invaded. I immediately knew it was a chance to create goodwill for Jews in the Empire and volunteered for the Ottoman Jewish Legions. And do you know how I was rewarded for that? Radical Zionists, your organization, Hashomer killed my fiancée in retaliation. It was then that I broke away from the cause of an independent Israel you know? I gave everything that I had in the army, and got shot in the foot for saving a battalion of our regiment from encirclement in Haskovo. The Bey commanding our portion of the army was impressed and there I met my now wife, Jihaan. After the war I settled down, conducted my business in law, and got to know Jihaan before falling for her, marrying her, and having a son. After the war I met a man who went by the name of Mustafa Kemal. Persuaded me to join the Liberal Union, to safeguard the rights of Jews in the Empire and to make them an integral part of the empire.”
David sighed and smiled warily. He spread his arms wide. “And here I am.”
“I am sorry about your intended Mr. Ben-Gurion. I can assure you that that was a mistake on part of my organization….” Shochat began.
“Perhaps, but that was six years ago. And I have forgiven most for that incident. I must admit I had a small sadistic glee when I heard that the government was hunting your organization down, but otherwise I have retained an ambivalent position.” David cut in tersely before sighing and rubbing his eyes. “Mr. Shochat, as a lawfully sworn in Ottoman citizen and politician, you should be happy that I have not informed the police. It is out of respect for my friend here that I haven’t. You have heard my story and my reason as to why I am not willing to aid you, so I must ask you to leave.”
At this, Shochat stood up angrily. “You would forsake the Promised Land? All because a bird you were sweet on died?”
Anger coursed through his veins. Jihaan had been so kind, so understanding, so beautiful, but the loss of Rachel still hurt him. He was immediately on his feet, his face stormy. “Mr. Shochat, I believe that it is time for you to leave. Yitzhak, remind me never to accept your ‘meetings’ ever again.”
Shochat tried to argue, but Yitzhak knew a lost cause when he saw one and pulled Shochat away. He looked at David and nodded, smiling slightly beneath his quiet demeanour. David waved at him and closed the door with a small click.
“Are they gone?” Came the quiet voice of his wife in Turkish. Honestly, David had forgotten they had been conversing in Hebrew. He switched back to Turkish as he nodded his head.
“Yes, they’re gone.” David nodded. Jihaan hesitated before surging forward and hugging him.
“I know how difficult it is for you to think of Rachel. Are you fine?” Jihaan murmured in a small voice.
“Yes I’m fine.” David smiled slightly. “I was angry at his disrespect of her, that’s all.”
Jihaan nodded. David quickly changed the somber atmosphere by asking, “Is Ariel ok?”
Jihaan’s eyes lit up and she led him into their room and began to speak with him about their son as Ariel played with the few toys that he had. Looking at his family, smiling, and playing and laughing, David could feel true happiness coursing through him. He would not give this up for the world.
***
***
David Ben-Gurion idly wondered what the hell he had been drinking when he agreed to meet with the people that Ben-zvi was eager to introduce him with. He had already taken an earful of angry mutterings and shouts from his wife, and frankly, he couldn’t blame her. His life in Thessaloniki or if you were Turkish like Ben-Gurion’s wife, Salonika was good. He had a stable political career, as one of the city’s premier politicians, and he had already made a good name for himself as a former veteran of the army. His wife was the column editor of the local English newspapers as well, and earned good sums of money. He didn’t want to be drawn into the world of radical Zionism, like his friend Yitzhak.
Small thumps on the door was heard, and Ben-Gurion sighed. He received a pointed look from his wife, Jihaan, as she pointedly looked at him before cradling their son, Ariel and lifting him up and retreating back into their room. David gulped slightly and took a big sigh before walking up to the front door and opened it slowly. The features, most especially the laugh lines of his friend, Yitzhak Ben-zvi could be seen perfectly, and the rough but lean feature of the man that he had brought with him, Israel Shochat could be seen perfectly as well.
“Come on in.” David flourished and gestured. The two men muttered greetings and entered the small house and sat down in the living room. Yitzhak was pointedly glaring at David. David ignored him. He was wearing his Fez hat as a message and Yitzhak seemed to recognize that. After a few moments of pointed silence, David spoke up. “I believe you two gentlemen have a proposal for me?”
Shochat leaned forward and stippled his fingers before looking at David. “I have heard that when you were young, you were heavily involved in the Zionist cause.”
“I was.” David answered shortly.
“Was?” Shochat questioned. “What happened to that belief then? What about now?”
“I am a member of the Ottoman Jewish Front Organization. It’s leader in the Vilayet of Salonika actually.” David answered tersely.
Shochat’s eyebrows disappeared into his hairline in surprise or anger, and his face seemed to take on an angry disposition. “The OJFO? They’re traitors you realize?”
“Traitors?” David asked, mentally asking to the heavens why he didn’t take the advice of his wife of not drinking so often.
“They have given up the dream of an independent Israel haven’t they? Consorting with the Turks!” Shochat hissed as he seemed to be make gestures with his hand that didn’t make sense to David in particular.
“I am unsure whether my friend Yitzhak here mentioned this to you.” David began slowly. “But I have given up on that dream too.”
“So I have heard.” Shochat answered back smoothly. “But I do not believe that.”
David clenched his eyes and sighed. He leaned back. “It’s a long story.”
“I have all the time in the world Mr. Ben-Gurion.”
“In 1906, I immigrated to this empire with my childhood sweetheart, Rachel Nelkin, Yitzhak can fill in for her if he has the time.” David began slowly choosing his words as he was lost in a sea of reminiscence. “I came to Palestine to lead the Aliyah movement and secure the foundation of a future independent Israel. And even though I blatantly talked at times about ‘political independence’ for Jews in the Empire, do you know how the Arabs treated me? They treated me with kindness. In Jaffa, I was loved by the Arabs. They called me David Saheb. That was when I felt the first crack in my disposition.”
Shochat seemed to be angry at the explanation but he didn’t interrupt. Yitzhak of course knew, so he kept quiet.
“In 1911 I enrolled in the University of this City, the one near the pier by the way, and despite my status as a political agitator I was allowed education in the Empire.” David continued softly. “Cracks began to show then as well. But in 1915, the ultimate thing happened after completing my studies. The Bulgarians, Montenegrins and Serbians invaded. I immediately knew it was a chance to create goodwill for Jews in the Empire and volunteered for the Ottoman Jewish Legions. And do you know how I was rewarded for that? Radical Zionists, your organization, Hashomer killed my fiancée in retaliation. It was then that I broke away from the cause of an independent Israel you know? I gave everything that I had in the army, and got shot in the foot for saving a battalion of our regiment from encirclement in Haskovo. The Bey commanding our portion of the army was impressed and there I met my now wife, Jihaan. After the war I settled down, conducted my business in law, and got to know Jihaan before falling for her, marrying her, and having a son. After the war I met a man who went by the name of Mustafa Kemal. Persuaded me to join the Liberal Union, to safeguard the rights of Jews in the Empire and to make them an integral part of the empire.”
David sighed and smiled warily. He spread his arms wide. “And here I am.”
“I am sorry about your intended Mr. Ben-Gurion. I can assure you that that was a mistake on part of my organization….” Shochat began.
“Perhaps, but that was six years ago. And I have forgiven most for that incident. I must admit I had a small sadistic glee when I heard that the government was hunting your organization down, but otherwise I have retained an ambivalent position.” David cut in tersely before sighing and rubbing his eyes. “Mr. Shochat, as a lawfully sworn in Ottoman citizen and politician, you should be happy that I have not informed the police. It is out of respect for my friend here that I haven’t. You have heard my story and my reason as to why I am not willing to aid you, so I must ask you to leave.”
At this, Shochat stood up angrily. “You would forsake the Promised Land? All because a bird you were sweet on died?”
Anger coursed through his veins. Jihaan had been so kind, so understanding, so beautiful, but the loss of Rachel still hurt him. He was immediately on his feet, his face stormy. “Mr. Shochat, I believe that it is time for you to leave. Yitzhak, remind me never to accept your ‘meetings’ ever again.”
Shochat tried to argue, but Yitzhak knew a lost cause when he saw one and pulled Shochat away. He looked at David and nodded, smiling slightly beneath his quiet demeanour. David waved at him and closed the door with a small click.
“Are they gone?” Came the quiet voice of his wife in Turkish. Honestly, David had forgotten they had been conversing in Hebrew. He switched back to Turkish as he nodded his head.
“Yes, they’re gone.” David nodded. Jihaan hesitated before surging forward and hugging him.
“I know how difficult it is for you to think of Rachel. Are you fine?” Jihaan murmured in a small voice.
“Yes I’m fine.” David smiled slightly. “I was angry at his disrespect of her, that’s all.”
Jihaan nodded. David quickly changed the somber atmosphere by asking, “Is Ariel ok?”
Jihaan’s eyes lit up and she led him into their room and began to speak with him about their son as Ariel played with the few toys that he had. Looking at his family, smiling, and playing and laughing, David could feel true happiness coursing through him. He would not give this up for the world.
***
The only thing I remember from the story is that some groups and regions in the Caucasus (especially religiously Islamic or racially Arminian) are felling nostalgic of ottoman rule, essentially after there reform
Along with that Russia agreed to allow movement political marriages between central Asian Islamic houses and ottoman families
In general every group in the empire (expect maybe the Finns?) wants what the Russians granted the polish people after the great wars
I just wait for the Ottomans to make huge amounts of money from oil on their territory.
Between the growing economy of the Ottoman Empire (equal to or greater than Italy) and future oil wealth, the Ottoman Empire has a great deal of money and resources to industrialize rapidly and heavily.
PS: Turkey, the Middle East and Africa had strong population growth in the 20th century (for example: Morocco almost multiplied its population by 8). Due to the reforms of the Ottoman Empire, it is expected that the population growth will be much higher right? (I especially see a large number of Egyptians migrating to the Ottoman Empire)
PS2: If the Ottomans enter WW2 with the Allies and are considered a "world power", they should win a permanent seat in the UN.
PS3: The Ottomans should join the European Union (they are "European") or form their own "Union" with North Africa, Arabia and some other Muslim countries, with the wealth and industrialization of the Ottomans they could easily "lead" this Union. A "Union" protected by an industrialized power (Ottomans) could protect the Union from European or American influence. Drive the British out of Egypt and Persia, the French out of the Maghreb, and don't let the US set foot in the Middle East, because it will never leave later.
Between the growing economy of the Ottoman Empire (equal to or greater than Italy) and future oil wealth, the Ottoman Empire has a great deal of money and resources to industrialize rapidly and heavily.
PS: Turkey, the Middle East and Africa had strong population growth in the 20th century (for example: Morocco almost multiplied its population by 8). Due to the reforms of the Ottoman Empire, it is expected that the population growth will be much higher right? (I especially see a large number of Egyptians migrating to the Ottoman Empire)
PS2: If the Ottomans enter WW2 with the Allies and are considered a "world power", they should win a permanent seat in the UN.
PS3: The Ottomans should join the European Union (they are "European") or form their own "Union" with North Africa, Arabia and some other Muslim countries, with the wealth and industrialization of the Ottomans they could easily "lead" this Union. A "Union" protected by an industrialized power (Ottomans) could protect the Union from European or American influence. Drive the British out of Egypt and Persia, the French out of the Maghreb, and don't let the US set foot in the Middle East, because it will never leave later.
If Egypt remains pro ottoman it’s better for the empire if those of ottoman ancestry; Turkish, Arab, Balkan, and Caucasian descent stay to form a strong pro imperial voting lobbying group. If Egypt goes anti ottoman it’s better for those groups to move to the empire with there wealth and skill rather then get suppressed and forced to conform. (like Germans American were in ww1, or Japanese Americans were in ww2)
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I do say watching the build up of the Ottoman empire is probably the most fascinating aspects of this alternate timeline, it's not been a straight forward wank but a struggle with both high and low, progress and set backs as a stability is restored with Zionist extremists a result of Jewish immigration and the Arab nationalism seemingly awakening.
The Oil and Ottoman territories should them extremely strong power one their properly developed, though with Russia, China still extremely strong I can't really see the US and other sea powers like say Japan ever see the Old world fall so behind the New world as the OTL
Though I got a question, how exactly is the Dominion of Pakistan run? I don't mean to diminish the issues of India but the Pakistani territories are mostly princely states, with Kashmir being not only three largely different under one king, Kalat being many, Baluchistan and tribal areas mainly princely states ect . Can they raise their own defense forces for example, with a China rising back to it's strength and claims on their land or the trouble in Afghanistan?
Likewise, given the Muslim league and Jinnah are trying to state build could they try to help resolve the tribal issue around the Durand line to prove the British they can run it? Though one idea I could see them working on is to try and expand their area either through eventually either getting Afghanistan to becoming part of it with the king being a type of constitutional monarchy like thought of in the OTL in the 50s (unlikely) or taking advantage of the civil war to forge links to eventually get certain provinces to break away and join Pakistan. I would Kandahar, Nimruz and Helmand would the provinces they would most focus on given that's where the Baloch's in Afghanistan largely are with them majority in Nimruz. That way they could avoid the issue of ethnic nationalism in one of their largest provinces and safe place for rebels to train and have bases in, it also would vastly shorten the Afghan border. Granted I'm not saying they would it while still apart of the British empire but more plans for the future as I doubt they would want either Greater Pakistan with parts of Afghanistan or to have it fully apart of Pakistan.
The Oil and Ottoman territories should them extremely strong power one their properly developed, though with Russia, China still extremely strong I can't really see the US and other sea powers like say Japan ever see the Old world fall so behind the New world as the OTL
Though I got a question, how exactly is the Dominion of Pakistan run? I don't mean to diminish the issues of India but the Pakistani territories are mostly princely states, with Kashmir being not only three largely different under one king, Kalat being many, Baluchistan and tribal areas mainly princely states ect . Can they raise their own defense forces for example, with a China rising back to it's strength and claims on their land or the trouble in Afghanistan?
Likewise, given the Muslim league and Jinnah are trying to state build could they try to help resolve the tribal issue around the Durand line to prove the British they can run it? Though one idea I could see them working on is to try and expand their area either through eventually either getting Afghanistan to becoming part of it with the king being a type of constitutional monarchy like thought of in the OTL in the 50s (unlikely) or taking advantage of the civil war to forge links to eventually get certain provinces to break away and join Pakistan. I would Kandahar, Nimruz and Helmand would the provinces they would most focus on given that's where the Baloch's in Afghanistan largely are with them majority in Nimruz. That way they could avoid the issue of ethnic nationalism in one of their largest provinces and safe place for rebels to train and have bases in, it also would vastly shorten the Afghan border. Granted I'm not saying they would it while still apart of the British empire but more plans for the future as I doubt they would want either Greater Pakistan with parts of Afghanistan or to have it fully apart of Pakistan.
I think there was mention of how the French asked the sultan in his role as caliph to ask the anti French rebels in Morocco and part of Algeria to give up like they did the ache and the southern Philippines.
but because the French openly backed the Italians in its war on Libya and we’re not willing to give any concessions to the rebels unlike the American and the Dutch. the sultan declared that the rebels were right to challenge unfair rule but he did not declare a jihad or offer any support other then well wishes and prayers.
@सार्थक (Sārthākā) what happened to Manfred Von Richthofen? Is he alive or did he die in the war? And did he still have theost kills in the war?
The Ottomans will undergo a period of population growth, though not as bombastic as Morocco's population boom
If something like the UN is even formed
if something like the EU is even formed. Even the League of Nations ittl hasn't been formed so intergovernmental unions will not have precedents to work with
Egypt will probably remain Neutral in regards to the Ottomans. Pro-Ottoman when it suits them and anti when it does not.
The Dominion of Pakistan does not exist as of right now ittl. It will in the future, but for now it doesn't.
The Ottomans despite their anger at the French will not antagonize them by funding rebellions in French colonial lands when they are so dependent on the French economy.
He's alive, withe 67 confirmed victories (considering the shorter ww1, that's still high), the highest kills from an ace in the great war ittl. He's a member of the centrist faction of the DUSP political party