Orient Yourself Correctly: A Komnenian Tale

Kosta

Banned
Another update so soon! Thank you for not keeping us in suspense for too long. The narrative is superbly written! :D

I haven't commented much on this thread, but I wanted to tell you that the last few updates have been wonderful. This is, by far, one of the most innovative Byzantine TLs I've been on the board. Keep up the great work!

Thank you both very kindly. I'm working on another update now (this down time won't last for long, I have to utilise it while I can), but unfortunately temporarily I have to discontinue the storybook style of things and switch to a textbook style and 3rd-person omniscient narrated approach. I'm not covering enough ground and if I kept the pace that I have now, in 365 edits, I'd only be to Easter 1082. I do promise that there will be future updates in the future written in the old style.
 

Deleted member 67076

Another strong update. You're an amazing writer Kosta.

Also, you've forgotten to fill in [12] and [13]
 

Kosta

Banned
Another strong update. You're an amazing writer Kosta.

Also, you've forgotten to fill in [12] and [13]

Sorry. I'll go back and fill them in, but 12 was supposed to make note that the dish mentioned was çevirme kebab/kebap (a lamb rotisserie) and 13 was to note that because the Romans dated the new day at sundown, what would probably be 3 AM/4 AM for us is more like their late morning/early afternoon.
 
Enjoyed it greatly, now I just want to see the Sultan's reaction in Iran about what is happening in Anatolia. :D
 

Kosta

Banned
This is an edit to keep you the audience interested until I can track down the book I absolutely need to discuss Roman-Seljuk interactions. It's not much, but I'm bound and determined to write on edit a day.

Thoughts from the Chorus*​
Although the final reasons for the accepting the Emperor Alexios Komnenos’ offer to become a general of the Roman Empire are unknown, several apocryphal stories survive. The first is that Suleiman survived an assassination attempt the first night the Emperor Alexios visited him to give him the offer and at that point he realised that there was no turning back. The second is that Suleiman had a mystical experience while riding his horse before Alexios Komnenos had even returned home to Constantinople. It was allegedly then that he understood that he was on the right path. The third reason is simply that Alexios had simply saved enough tax money up to offer Suleiman enough gold to make him more wealthy than he could ever possibly become by looting Anatolian cities and being on the run from Imperial troops. Some scholars even say that perhaps all three stories are true. What is known however is that was only on the Sunday of the Holy Forefathers that Suleiman ibn-Kutalmish was baptised in the Holy Wisdom Cathedral in Constantinople, months after his encounters with Seljuk and Norman forces. It was only from that point was known as Solomontos Koutalmishopoulos (Σολομῶντος Κουταλμισχὅπουλος). Surprisingly, it was said that the Emperor and his new General formed a very close relationship. The success of the integration of the Turks should not only be attributed to pure pragmatism, it seems. Alexios certainly had a great deal of respect for Solomontos, and old General Solomontos for his sovereign,and it was said that the two were very close. The pair was so close after Solomontos’ baptism that the royal court was embarrassed of how much the Emperor chosen by God was to a cultureless Turk who could quite possibly have feigned interest in Christianity in order to gain power. The two were mockingly called Socrates (Σωκράτης) and Platon (Πλάτων), but who mentored whom not quite known. Despite prejudices enacted against the new Turkish troops by the Greek-speaking elite, the conversion of hundreds of Seljuks to Roman authority did wonders for the Komnenian-Era Empire. Finally, Rome had a regular-army at its disposal. No longer did Alexios have to rely on foreign mercenaries who were untrustworthy and malicious. Combined with the disciplined might of the Varangians and his new Turkish troops, Alexios had quite the military at his disposal. However, what was he to do with the thousands of angsty, violent mercenaries still within his domain? And what, for that matter, was Alexios to do with all of the Turks who had not accepted Roman rule and who were fleeing back east, to the Sultanate of the Seljuks just across the border?

*This is neither from an in-universe textbook nor is it a display of events unfolding as they happen. I'd like to think edits like these as words from the chorus, to help explain the situation and explain things from a 3rd-person omniscient narrative-perspective in order to help explain things. I expect these kinds of updates to be few and far between, but they can be brought back by popular demand. Well, that is to say this story needs to get popular first...
 
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Deleted member 67076

Well, I like the chorus. (There should be a Greek chorus reference in here somewhere...) Is it popular enough yet?:p

As for the mercs, why not just get rid of them via warfare? Send them on suicide missions until there's a more manageable number left.
 

Kosta

Banned
Well, I like the chorus. (There should be a Greek chorus reference in here somewhere...) Is it popular enough yet?:p

As for the mercs, why not just get rid of them via warfare? Send them on suicide missions until there's a more manageable number left.

Well thank you. I'm not really sure how to utilise it, it feels a bit awkward to me. I'm itching to get to the in-universe textbook-approach that is so popular around here to test my skills, but it might not be for awhile.

Alexios has to think on his feet; there'll be several ways to get rid of them.
 

katchen

Banned
Beautiful TL. It works well. Turks really can go either way at this point. Have you read "The Woman Warrior" about Sarmatian and Turkish steppe society? The Turks---and all steppe people---really are VERY different than Arabs, particularly when it comes to the status of women. Women CAN be warriors in Turkish steppe society, just as they sometimes were amongst the Mongols. It's differences such as this that cause the Arab Muslim way not to sit well with Turks and will make Turks much closer to Northern/Western Christians than they are to Arabs---for whom they are expected to fight for and yet submit to. And now Emperor Alexios is giving them an alternative to that.
The truly interesting things will happen when Pope Innocent III calls for a Crusade to retake the Holy Land--if it even occurs to him to do so if Alexios does not send the Pope that letter.
If the Franks are going to crusade to take the Holy Land ITTL, they will need to go about it very differently indeed---like maybe via North Africa and Egypt.
 

Deleted member 67076

Does the new Turkish army mean the Pronoia system will be butterflied away, or will it be modified as a means to ensure loyalty by the Roman's new army?
 
This is an edit to keep you the audience interested until I can track down the book I absolutely need to discuss Roman-Seljuk interactions. It's not much, but I'm bound and determined to write on edit a day.

*This is neither from an in-universe textbook nor is it a display of events unfolding as they happen. I'd like to think edits like these as words from the chorus, to help explain the situation and explain things from a 3rd-person omniscient narrative-perspective in order to help explain things. I expect these kinds of updates to be few and far between, but they can be brought back by popular demand. Well, that is to say this story needs to get popular first...

What is the name of the book you are looking for? Also, if it means more information about the period, I wouldn't mind the edits.
 

Kosta

Banned
Does the new Turkish army mean the Pronoia system will be butterflied away, or will it be modified as a means to ensure loyalty by the Roman's new army?

That is a very good question, one that I haven't thought of too much until this afternoon when I got a break from Christmas shopping. There was no one more into patronage than Alexios; in the real world, he gave his family literally everything that he could. His policies toward the aristocracy are confusing to say the least. The previous Macedonian Dynasty tried very hard to neuter the power of the aristocracy, so I suppose it's a tad bit ironic that the rising star of one of Rome's most powerful aristocratic families came to power. He certainly was not into completely neutering the power of the aristocracy, but he was clever and decided that if he scattered them to the various corners of the Empire, they might be less of a threat than if they were all concentrated in the City. Thus the system of pronoia was born, as I see it, which reminds me more of the modern-day Islamic Republic of Iran's bonyad system than it does European feudalism. I think it's a brilliant idea, since the State still owns the land, but the nobility are giving an economic incentive to curry favour with the Emperor. However, Alexios buggered up this system by blatantly favouring his family, so go figure (but then again, would we not do the same in his position? I know I would. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say). Fortunately, Alexios will just gain entire army to work with, so that gives him much more leeway to build up a new system in the East. Thus, Alexios will not be able to show favour as much to his own family; he has thousands of Turks to woo. Rome loves playing Minoritybowl Shuffle; expect Greeks to be moved back east, Armenians and Turks west, and a new rising ethnic group that hopefully none of you will see coming to move somewhere crucial ;).

Beautiful TL. It works well. Turks really can go either way at this point. Have you read "The Woman Warrior" about Sarmatian and Turkish steppe society? The Turks---and all steppe people---really are VERY different than Arabs, particularly when it comes to the status of women. Women CAN be warriors in Turkish steppe society, just as they sometimes were amongst the Mongols. It's differences such as this that cause the Arab Muslim way not to sit well with Turks and will make Turks much closer to Northern/Western Christians than they are to Arabs---for whom they are expected to fight for and yet submit to. And now Emperor Alexios is giving them an alternative to that.
The truly interesting things will happen when Pope Innocent III calls for a Crusade to retake the Holy Land--if it even occurs to him to do so if Alexios does not send the Pope that letter.
If the Franks are going to crusade to take the Holy Land ITTL, they will need to go about it very differently indeed---like maybe via North Africa and Egypt.

Thank you for your kind words.

There will be no Crusade. The East will be the safest (if the most precarious) part of the Empire. The Emperor will have no reason to write to the Pope in Rome (I think it was Urban V at the time, but I can't think of his name of the top of my head), who thus will never have an impetus to come up with the idea of a Crusade—at least in the East...

wow nice thread i'm gonna follow
Thank you, friend. It's always nice to hear that a new reader finds my work interesting.

What is the name of the book you are looking for? Also, if it means more information about the period, I wouldn't mind the edits.
Unfortunately, I can't even remember. It was quite difficult picking up my story again after four months of inactivity. I lost a lot of the knowledge I had gleaned from my books, like how exactly Roman-Seljuk policy would be shaped. I implore anyone with any knowledge on Seljuk history to contact me immediately, please; I am quite desperate for a crash course on the Malik Shah period of the Seljuk Dynasty. I think it was The Alexiad, but I can't remember for sure. It's not a book that one can scan, so I suppose if I want my information hard enough, I'll have to just sit down and start reading from page one again.

Also, I wouldn't want to make you check over my edits, since you'd be undoubtedly bored out of your mind. I have this nasty habit of refusing to check over my own writing for mistakes; I hate what I write and I find it all to be so insincere. It's a major flaw of mine, I know, but usually I can make do by seeking out an editor. I'm a rough writer (see what I did there :D?), and it reflects in my work.

Dang! I almost missed it.

Superb job my friend!

Thank you.
 
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FWIW, the Pope in 1081 was Gregory VII ( 1073- 25 May 1085); he was followed by Victor III (24 May 1086 - Sep 1087); then you got Urban II ( 12 Mar 1088 - 29 July 1099) who got Alexios' letter.
 

Kosta

Banned
FWIW, the Pope in 1081 was Gregory VII ( 1073- 25 May 1085); he was followed by Victor III (24 May 1086 - Sep 1087); then you got Urban II ( 12 Mar 1088 - 29 July 1099) who got Alexios' letter.

Thank you. Episcopal names are so repetitive, it's hard to keep them straight. I don't even know the names of the vast majority of the Ecumenical Patriarchs, and it's been tough trying to figure out the line of Patriarchs of Antioch because I absolutely refuse to believe that a man could be Patriarch of Antioch for sixty five years and then go on to become Ecumenical Patriarch.
 
Thank you. Episcopal names are so repetitive, it's hard to keep them straight. I don't even know the names of the vast majority of the Ecumenical Patriarchs, and it's been tough trying to figure out the line of Patriarchs of Antioch because I absolutely refuse to believe that a man could be Patriarch of Antioch for sixty five years and then go on to become Ecumenical Patriarch.

What?????:eek: How on earth is that supposed to have happened?
Also, there was at least one Anti-Pope in this period, but I didn't know if you would want that info. It was during the Investiture Controversy between Gregory and HR Emperor Henry IV.
 

Kosta

Banned
What?????:eek: How on earth is that supposed to have happened?
Also, there was at least one Anti-Pope in this period, but I didn't know if you would want that info. It was during the Investiture Controversy between Gregory and HR Emperor Henry IV.

I don't believe it; there must be some sort of mistake. Go figure the moment I need to go back to the list of Patriarchs the Patriarchate lists, their website is down. The only thing I have at my disposal to proof what I'm saying is this website, as well as Wikipedia, which just drew from the Patriarchate's list of Patriarchs verbatim, anyway. http://orthodoxwiki.org/John_VII_the_Oxite

It wouldn't hurt to say the least. All of my books are (East) Rome centred; the only pretender clergyman I've ever learned of was the infamous Raiktor, who claimed to be the last Doukas Emperor in disguise. He was used to formulate the casus belli for Roberto Guiscardo's invasion of the Empire.

You seem to be the man to talk to about the Medieval Roman Papacy, sir! Do you mind if I PM my ideas, perhaps we could hash them out and see if they can withstand a reality check?

Also, I didn't realise that today was my fifth anniversary of when I joined AH.Com. What a fast five years.
 
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