Number of Escorts for a Hypothetical Royal Navy

[Simon]

Assume for a moment that the Royal Navy has three large conventional aircraft carriers and three large amphibious assault ships, operated with the expectation that two of each will be operational at any time with the third in port. They might also have a trio of amphibious transport docks but since they'll generally operate alongside an assault ship it's not really an issue. How many Type 45 air defence destroyers and Type 26 anti-submarine frigates do people think the Navy would need as escorts for these and to carry out their regular duties? The River-class offshore patrol vessels are available for very low-level duties as well. I'm looking for rough numbers rather than having to get into the nitty-gritty. Thanks.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

You'd need a minimum of 2 type 45's and 4 type 26's per carrier and amphibious assault ship. An SSN per group would be needed as well. I'd recommend another two escort groups as well to cover for refits, emergencies and normal patrol duties.

 

[Mister Mister]

Four T45 and 8 T26 per carrier. At least.

 

[sdgottsch]

I think the idea of using just RN assets for Carrier Strike Group/Carrier Battle Group has been removed from the RN lexicon. The paradigm has changed and now you'll see a mixture of NATO partners supporting each other. The current cruise of the HMS QE reflects the new escort idea of the RN where you have reported UK, US, & Dutch ships working along side each other as well as a flight deck of mixed national assets.

But if you look at wikipedia, you'll see the USN assigned a CA for air defense and a destroyer squadron for missile defense/air defense while SSN's & airborne systems support the undersea mission.

I don't believe the River OPV's can keep up with the speed of a CSG/CBG honestly.

Regarding the idea of 2-4 T45/4-8 T26's, there are only 6 T45 and 12 T23's in the RN, I don't think you could run that many DD/FF's for each CSG/CBG and still be able to keep up with maintenance schedules and other missions.

 

[sparky42]

I think the idea of using just RN assets for Carrier Strike Group/Carrier Battle Group has been removed from the RN lexicon. The paradigm has changed and now you'll see a mixture of NATO partners supporting each other. The current cruise of the HMS QE reflects the new escort idea of the RN where you have reported UK, US, & Dutch ships working along side each other as well as a flight deck of mixed national assets.

But if you look at wikipedia, you'll see the USN assigned a CA for air defense and a destroyer squadron for missile defense/air defense while SSN's & airborne systems support the undersea mission.

Well to be fair the RN is doing that because it has issues with numbers, with the service rate of the 45s still fairly low (think only the one with QE is fully operational right now), and the 23s are handling everything else. In a situation of such larger surface fleet, then the escort situation would have to be different.

 

[fester]

Assume for a moment that the Royal Navy has three large conventional aircraft carriers and three large amphibious assault ships, operated with the expectation that two of each will be operational at any time with the third in port. They might also have a trio of amphibious transport docks but since they'll generally operate alongside an assault ship it's not really an issue. How many Type 45 air defence destroyers and Type 26 anti-submarine frigates do people think the Navy would need as escorts for these and to carry out their regular duties? The River-class offshore patrol vessels are available for very low-level duties as well. I'm looking for rough numbers rather than having to get into the nitty-gritty. Thanks.

What is the mission(s) and what is the opposition?

 

[Cryhavoc101]

If we look at UK's Strike Group 21
This in addition to the Carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth and the 2 RFA Ships :=

2 x Type 45
2 x Type 23
1 x Arleigh Burke (USS Sullivans DDG 68)
1 x De Zeven Provinciën class (HNLMS Evertsen F805)
1 x Astute SSN

So if all British (ignoring the fact that it is unlikely to be all British) then I would call that 3 x Type 45 and 3 x Type 23 and 1 x Astute class SSN per major asset

So that's x 6 = 18 DDG and 18 FFG and 6 SSN

As for OPV's the 8 they have seems a reasonable number?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

As for OPV's the 8 they have seems a reasonable number?

Double it and make them proper corvettes.

 

[Riain]

In the 60s when the RN was planning a Tactical Air Unit of 2 carriers operating as a Task Force backed by an Amphibious Task Element East of Suez the number of Type 82 DLGs required fluctuated between 6 and 8, however 6 didn't mean the RN only needed 6 AAW escorts, rather it mean that the Amphibious and Replenishment elements of the TF would be protected by Sea Slug armed County class DLGs. 8 big escorts meant the TF would have ~5-6: 4 for AAW defence and a spare for ASW hunts and another AAW for the Amphibs and replenishment ships. Operating 2 carriers together economizes on escorts, single carriers need 2 AAW escorts each whereas 2 carriers can share 3.

These numbers would be more or less the same now, however the big difference is that steam powered ships need long and expensive refits to replace the bricks/tiles in the firebox of the boilers at 12-13, 6-7, 3-4, 3-4 year intervales with each refit being a retain/dispose decision. GT powered ships simply replace an engine during a medium refit, which lowers costs and reduces refit time meaning if 4 ships are required online perhaps only 5 GT ships are needed compared to 6 steam ships.

 

[CV12Hornet]

I'm thinking 42 escorts in total. 18 Type 45s and 24 Type 26s. 4 Type 45 and 2 Type 26 covering the carriers; 1 Type 45 and 3 Type 26 covering the amphibious groups and underway replenishment forces.