Northern Star, a timeline with a united Scandinavia

Greenland colony.....

I don't think it has quite expired yet, though it is on its last legs. Any chance of breathing some life into it before the inevitable. The King has got his fingers into the maritime trade in a small way. It wouldn't be profitable probably, but a yearly supply run out to Iceland and Greenland by one of the King's own vessels to maintain Norway's far away outposts?
 
AuroraBorealis said:
I don't think it has quite expired yet, though it is on its last legs. Any chance of breathing some life into it before the inevitable. The King has got his fingers into the maritime trade in a small way. It wouldn't be profitable probably, but a yearly supply run out to Iceland and Greenland by one of the King's own vessels to maintain Norway's far away outposts?

Greenland as a colony is IMHO more or less useless. OTOH the knowledge of it and what that lays beyond it, is another matter... ;) :)
 
@arctic warrior and Aurora Borealis:

Yes there will most certainly be atleast one heir in the near future. One of the premisses in the POD was the establishment of a vibrant royal line :)
 
I agree

Red said:
Greenland as a colony is IMHO more or less useless. OTOH the knowledge of it and what that lays beyond it, is another matter... ;) :)

by itself yes...Greenland is probably useless, but there must be some there still who remember the wild tales of Markland and Vinland. Maintain a steady supply run and someone else will get the bright idea to go exploring in search of these lands...or a ship may get blown off course enroute from Iceland and re-discover Markland or Helluland. While still inhabited by what the Scandinavians would regard as the savage Skraelings... they should eventually be able to find something useful....the Grand Banks are not that far off afterall...though whether a bountiful supply of Cod would be an enticement at this point...it would be a valuable trade good to supply the cities of the Hanse. Given the Northern climate of the Scandinavian countries...they would probably have to revert to or use some kind of Dry fishing that the Brits used when they started fishing off the banks...that in turn would lead to an eventual permanent outpost supplying those ships on the banks...

Sounds like a good monopoly to me....

mind you this would probably be really a second POD
 
I have had some second toughts, and changed a few bits and added some more details :)

1394:
Eager to end the exhausting stalemate in the Baltic, the Hanseatic League comes forward with a wish for a compromise. At the castle of Bohus, Albrecht who have had enough of his captivity and Queen Margrethe I who have come to the conclusion that prolonged imprisonment will get her nowhere, agrees.

In February the Treaty of Bohus is signed, and Albrecht is released for a hefty ransom. As a guarantee for the ransom, the Hanseatic League is left in control of Stockholm. If Albrecht cannot pay within two years, Stockholm will be surrendered to King Olav IV. Albrecht does not waver his title, but retreats anyhow to Mecklenburg. Also the question regarding trade privileges is resolved. The Hanseatic League finally retains their old exclusive trade privileges, but an important exception is the right for local merchants to compete. The League is not pleased, but the deal at least shuts out the English and Dutch merchants and local competition at this time is more or less negligible.

In wake of the treaty, the Swedish Privy council acknowledges the Treaty of Dalaborg, making King Olav IV de facto king of Sweden.

With the ending of hostilities, the Victual Brothers becomes open prey to everyone. In August an army from the Teutonic Knights lands at Gotland and evicts the pirates from the island. They do not leave. Even tough the coherence of the brotherhood after this is broken, piracy will continue to threat maritime trade in the Baltic for years.

With the succession now in place, Queen Margrethe I starts a relentless process of buying vacant landed estates for the crown and buying out pawned provinces.

1395:
In June The Uppsala Wedding takes place. As Margareta Karlsdotter turns 14, the wedding with King Olav IV takes place. The wedding is held in Uppsala, the city where Sweden’s archbishop is located. Present at the wedding are the most numerous assembly of Scandinavian dignitaries seen in a long time; The Archbishops of Lund, Uppsala & Trondheim, 9 Bishops, 29 Norwegian, 28 Danish, 40 Swedish and 15 German nobles.

All the present dignitaries are signatories of The Uppsala Recess, a collection of laws that institutes the New Leidang and the Reduction.

The Reduction concerns crown land that have been lost during the turbulent time from 1363 in Sweden and 1368 in Denmark. Matters older than those dates are not affected. According to the law, both pawned and other provinces had to be restored to the crown. Landed estates bought also have to be returned. Peasants that had become nobility should loose their stand.

The New Leidang is a maritime law. Depending on its size all trading cities has to equip and maintain a number of ships. In peacetime they should be deployed as merchant vessels, but in wartime they are to be at the kings disposal. Failure to follow this law will result in a loss of trading rights. This actually forces the Hanseatic League to support the cities in following the law, or else the city will not be eligible for trading.

Later this year King Olav IV charters his own trading company. Two ships are acquired and will serve like the Leidang ships.

1396:
In February the time limit for Albrecht’s ransom is reached. He is unable to comply and King Olav IV quickly demands the control of Stockholm. Initially the Hanseatic League tries to tie this to changes in the trading privilege. But King Olav IV does not budge. By referring to the Treaty of Bohus and threatening to ask the Holy Roman Emperor for meditation, the Hanseatic League reluctantly yields the city in late May.

Even tough King Olav IV already have achieved the status as de facto king in all the three kingdoms, a formal coronation have yet not taken place. With the last missing piece of land (besides Gotland) now secured, the time has come.
 
Union treaty

Im pondering how far I can take the union treaty. I have come up with three versions and would like some feedback on them:

Best case:
• The Union-kingdom of Scania (or some other name)
• Hereditary Monarchy
• The former kingdoms are turned into duchies, the king is also duke
• Finland and the Atlantic possessions becomes provinces,
both directly under the crown
• One Privy council with at least x dignitaries from each duchy
• (The Union share laws and such)
• Taxes & declaration of war has to be approved by the Privy council
• Trade and foreign policy are the privilege of the king
• The King appoints province governors, but they have to be native dignitaries

A compromise:
• Three separate kingdoms, but they share the same king
• The Kingdom of Denmark & the Kingdom of Sweden becomes hereditary
• Finland stays a duchy and the Atlantic possessions becomes provinces,
both directly under the crown
• One Union Privy council with at least x dignitaries from each kingdom
• The three kingdoms share new laws and such
• Taxes & declaration of war has to be approved by the Privy council
• Trade and foreign policy are the privilege of the king
• The King appoints province governors, but they have to be native dignitaries

Worst case:
• Three separate kingdoms, but they share the same king
• The Kingdom of Denmark & the Kingdom of Sweden becomes hereditary
• Finland continues as a Swedish duchy and
the Atlantic possessions continues as Norwegian provinces
• Three separate Privy councils
• The three kingdoms have separate laws and such
• Taxes & declaration of war has to be approved by each Privy councils
• Trade and foreign policy are the privilege of the king
• The Privy Councils approves province governors and they have to be native dignitaries
 
I think the Compromise would be acceptable to the nobility of all three countries as they would be part of the "government" and at the same time be able to still keep national laws in effect, like a kind of Denmark 1848 just on a much larger scale. Of course there would be room for conflict but also for manouver. And the nobility would still be able to hold lands in all three countries. But I see it as a gradual process - but of course you don't expect this to come easily about.
 
I And the nobility would still be able to hold lands in all three countries.

Real estates yes, but province administration no

But I see it as a gradual process - but of course you don't expect this to come easily about.

Actually yes I do. Because apart from changing Denmark and Sweden into hereditary kingdoms and one instead of three Privy councils, it is not to far from OTL. And thet was Eric as King not Olav
 

Redbeard

Banned
Hi Oddball

Interesting!

I doubt if "degrading" former Kingdoms to Duchies would be plausible, but if a dynasty can consolidate its claim for all three thrones the difference is insignificant.

After some time I guess some ambitious bloke on the throne will "invent" a new title. In Central Europe it would be "Emperor", but I would prefer something a little more original. I once in an ATL over a Baltic Empire used the title "Northking" ruling the "United Kingdoms of the North". ( In Scandinavian: "Nordkonge" having an intended similarity to "Storkonge" (Greatking) ).

All in all I vote for starting in the "compromise" but soon moving to the best case.

At the wedding you have number of nobles of various nationalities. Where to you split between Danish and German? Later on at least Slesvig and Holstein would not be counted inside the Kingdom (important when you compare for instance figures on size of populations) but I guess at this time it would be more complicated. The romantic 19th century no doub't thought of the Holsten Counts as German, but were they in a 14th century context? BTW how much of a nobility was there in 1390's Norway?

Looking forward to see more :)

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
I doubt if "degrading" former Kingdoms to Duchies would be plausible, but if a dynasty can consolidate its claim for all three thrones the difference is insignificant.

I agree. The duchy thingie was just to add some flavour

At the wedding you have number of nobles of various nationalities. Where to you split between Danish and German?

Again this is a blatant rip of from OTL. The numbers is borrowed from OTL treaty of Lindholm.

Even if the nobility mostly were natives, there still were a few germans in the three kingdoms. But I doubt any from Slesvig were present, and even less from Holstein

Later on at least Slesvig and Holstein would not be counted inside the Kingdom

Holstein yes. But IMHO Margrethe would not be happy with you if you suggested that Slesvig were not old crown land... :)

BTW how much of a nobility was there in 1390's Norway?

Very, very few. Those who was counted as nobility were VERY loyal to Margrethe
 
I think the "Best Case" Scenario would be plausible as well! Maybe not within one generation though, but such a Union could be establish much faster than you would normally think, like you see in the UK 1707 or the Union between England and Wales.
England clearly dominated Wales, as do Sweden and Denmark with Norway.
Thus you could have a title of "Prince of Norway" for the Crownprince?

Anyway, great work so far!
 
I like the Best case, except that Iceland would be a Duchy also.

I think the Compromise is more likely, think England /Scotland with the Stuarts as Kings of both Kingdoms. this would be the UK, England/Scotland would have to come up with the Other name.
 
I like the Best case, except that Iceland would be a Duchy also.

No, it wouldn´t be possible. There isn´t really any nobility in Iceland and Iceland already is directly under the king by the time of the Kalmar Union, so unless the king gives Iceland away...
 
I like your writing, it sounds plausible.

I´d suggest you take the compromise solution and later on change it into the best case scenario, just gradually through 1-2 centuries. If the nobility of Norway Sweden and Denmark interacts and intermarries you won´t have much difference culturally between them.

(Except of course the peasants would still talk with strange dialects and maybe even consider them norwegian or danish, but who cares? By the time nationalism pops up those identities will probably have gone and the union way to strong to give in).

Suggestion:
The idea of scandinavians eventually settling Canada or east coast USA is nice, and often used. (or atleast pondered upon). How about letting them be more interested in European matters. In fact the shortsighted monarchs of Denmark were usually trying to get rid of Iceland offering to sell it to Britain on numerous occasions. (Even the Hansa league at some point). Iceland isn´t though completely insignificant since it supplies a whole lot of fish, which was very valuable in the middle ages during the fast.
How about the king of England actully accepting Iceland in exchange for something. (Maybe as a dowry?) and letting the union focus on the Baltic sea, Russia and Germany.
 
I like your writing, it sounds plausible.

I´d suggest you take the compromise solution and later on change it into the best case scenario, just gradually through 1-2 centuries. If the nobility of Norway Sweden and Denmark interacts and intermarries you won´t have much difference culturally between them.

Actually the nobility of Sweden and Denmark did interact and intermarry and did hold estates in both countries through war and peace until 1660 or so. Only then did things change and some of the nobility chose to be Swedish others to be Danish. But they preferred to have the countries split to being able to act as independently as possible in each country, forcing the king not to be able to rule it all as one kingdom.
The peasants and town citizens were not the peoples of the kingdom but the subjects of the King. The national state and feeling of nationality is still far away.
 
I vote for the compromise (well it happened in my TL :D )

And you'll need successive capable monarchs/regents for it to become the norm.
Getting a Royal Standard language may be necesary later to forstall rising nationalism.
 
Getting a Royal Standard language may be necesary later to forstall rising nationalism.

It's possible that with the Kingdom united the Scandinavian languages will simply be seen as dialects of one language- I suppose Danish would be the presige dialect because the monarchs are Danish.
 
No, it wouldn´t be possible. There isn´t really any nobility in Iceland and Iceland already is directly under the king by the time of the Kalmar Union, so unless the king gives Iceland away...

You are right, but Finland was a duchy, and there were very few, if any, nobility there.

IMHO since neither nordic countries realy were feudal in a genuine way, the titels were more "teoretic"

Thus having Iceland a duchy could work, but I do not plan to go there... ;)
 
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