Northern Limit Line

Thanks for all the comments. I've read through all of them and seen the feedback everyone provided. I thank all of you having interest in my ("successful") TL :D

That being said, I have seen dozens of compaints over the last few updates regarding a mass scale terrorist attack. Because of this, I will be re-writing the last two updates to be a bit more realistic (having the terrorist attack only happen in Japan, South Korea, and maybe the western United States). After careful consideration, I have realized that many of these comments are quite correct and having the entire world bury their heads in the sand would not be plausible at all.

I'm currently down with the flu right now, but I'll get back to writing within this week.

-From your author, Okmangeez.
 
Because, unfortunately enough, the Ukraine, Armenia, Georgia and all others are small countries whose population doesn't exceed 10 million and have militaries and economies incomparable to that of Russia.

Actually Ukraine has a population of 44 million people. Also, its GDP is ten times greater than the GDP of North Korea.

South Korea is a democratic republic of 50 million whose economic size and competence ranks one of the highest in the world, and wields a large(small only relatively to China and Japan) to Russia.

True, but Russia wouldn't be invading South Korea; they'd be invading a rapidly-collapsing country that borders South Korea... there's a bit of a difference here.

Furthermore all other regions have reasons why Russia'd want them - historic naval bases, oil reserves, etc. What does North Korea offer? Free labour? They could buy that shit much easier. Warm-water harbour? Vladivostok suits them extremely well for that situation.

No, the main reason Russia took over places like South Ossetia was to prevent the areas on the borders of their country from falling into NATO's sphere of influence. (South Ossetia is a tiny landlocked area with no naval bases or oil reserves afaik)

'tis exactly the same here: Russia would want to stop a close U.S. ally from gaining territory near them.

The question on refugees concerns the Chinese as well. Why does the Chinese wish to meddle with a potential crisis, whether it be a riot, anarchy, food shortage or epidemic, for the sake of gaining a few more miles into the peninsula? So their map looks nicer?

Same reason as Russia: to reduce the spread of US influence.

Occupying parts of North Korea would also give China and Russia a huge bargaining chip: they could offer to cede their occupation zones to South Korea if and only if South Korea removes the American military presence from their country.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of North Koreans would rather live under Chinese rule than live under South Korean rule (anti-American propaganda at work), so establishing an occupation zone should be easy.

The US does not leave its friends bound in blood alone. And South Korea has shared that fate for eight decades now. And South Korea has declared the entirety of the Korean peninsula its sovereign territory since 1948.
Does the USA even recognize South Korean sovereignty over the entire peninsula, anyway? If not, the argument that the US would "defend rightful South Korean land" (i.e. the North) becomes a lot weaker.

And yes, I'm definitely suggesting the US can engage in ground warfare over North Korea if the situation arises. Because even without them South Korea's going to do so anyway.

Yes, the US will fight North Korea on the ground. I'm not convinced that they would fight China and Russia on the ground. I think it would be more of a Crimea-like situation: trade sanctions and condemning, but no actual war.
 
I think that is wise move, it was going over the top I think. What you can do is revoke and expel the Chinese and Russian diplomats in as a humiliating manner as you can think of.
 
Thanks for all the comments. I've read through all of them and seen the feedback everyone provided. I thank all of you having interest in my ("successful") TL :D

That being said, I have seen dozens of compaints over the last few updates regarding a mass scale terrorist attack. Because of this, I will be re-writing the last two updates to be a bit more realistic (having the terrorist attack only happen in Japan, South Korea, and maybe the western United States). After careful consideration, I have realized that many of these comments are quite correct and having the entire world bury their heads in the sand would not be plausible at all.

I'm currently down with the flu right now, but I'll get back to writing within this week.

-From your author, Okmangeez.

Actually the only realistic option would be South Korea. I can't seem to see how Japan can be a target. And don't get me started on the Western USA.
 
It has been proven multiple times that North Korea has abducted Japanese people in Japan. So I believe it is entirely possible Japan might be struck :)

But if you think otherwise, please feel free to discuss why.
 
First I hope you feel better soon okmangeez. I will agree that a rewrite would make things much more believable. The NK will still kill many thousands of people and suffer retaliation, but things will be more logical.

Update when you can.
 
They'd probably also be able to target Chinese and Russian cities near the border, e.g. Dandong and Vladivostok.

If North Korea did it then their end would come quicker and that's something they don't want.

It has been proven multiple times that North Korea has abducted Japanese people in Japan. So I believe it is entirely possible Japan might be struck :)

But if you think otherwise, please feel free to discuss why.

How about let's say a blockade by the Japanese navy against North Korea?
 
If North Korea did it then their end would come quicker and that's something they don't want.



How about let's say a blockade by the Japanese navy against North Korea?
True.

Thank you for the reminder :D

I think a gas attack on advancing US and South Korean troops would be much more believable.
 
First I hope you feel better soon okmangeez. I will agree that a rewrite would make things much more believable. The NK will still kill many thousands of people and suffer retaliation, but things will be more logical.

Update when you can.

Thanks man :)

I'm coughing and wheezing right now and I'm sick as a dog but I'll update when I can :cool:

The previous two updates have been deleted.
 
Thanks man :)

I'm coughing and wheezing right now and I'm sick as a dog but I'll update when I can :cool:

The previous two updates have been deleted.


You are very welcome. I can well sympathize with how sick you are. Been there and not wanting to go back. Just keep yourself hydrated and rest as much as you can.

I will agree that a blockade will help, but with NK pissing off everyone, it is not like they will be getting much importation any time soon. ;)
 
It has been proven multiple times that North Korea has abducted Japanese people in Japan. So I believe it is entirely possible Japan might be struck :)

But if you think otherwise, please feel free to discuss why.

Japan is a totally plausible target. Well with range of their missiles, and they've got an established (if ramshackle) espionage set up there.

Given what I've read of North Koreas WMD program, I'd say their most realistic attack would be a front-wide chemical weapon attack (WW1 style) to punch a hole in the US/ROK (basically the only way the Norks could win), along with limited chemical strikes against military targets in Japan and maybe the Phillipines. Could also totally see the Norks throwing in a "fuck your" strike against civilian centers in Japan.

Really, that's enough to turn the world against North Korea, and to give other NATO/NATO-aligned nations cover to throw in (Australia would probably jump at the chance). It would also give three US cover to use tactical (but almost certainly not strategic) nuclear weapons against military targets (no juking cities).
 
Japan is a totally plausible target. Well with range of their missiles, and they've got an established (if ramshackle) espionage set up there.

Given what I've read of North Koreas WMD program, I'd say their most realistic attack would be a front-wide chemical weapon attack (WW1 style) to punch a hole in the US/ROK (basically the only way the Norks could win), along with limited chemical strikes against military targets in Japan and maybe the Phillipines. Could also totally see the Norks throwing in a "fuck your" strike against civilian centers in Japan.

Really, that's enough to turn the world against North Korea, and to give other NATO/NATO-aligned nations cover to throw in (Australia would probably jump at the chance). It would also give three US cover to use tactical (but almost certainly not strategic) nuclear weapons against military targets (no juking cities).

Not if any North Korean attempt gets shot down over the Sea of Japan.
 
Eh, I think we might have a bit too much backseat driving when it comes to this TL. While I was generally fine with how it was going, I can admit there were issues, as said in my previous post. The author has now made changes. Let's not badger him too hard and take away from his ownership of it.
 

MrP

Banned
Problem is, the UN doesn't have much power. If China and Russia do just grab bits of North Korea, what's the UN going to do? Impose sanctions on them?
Grabbing chunks of North Korea would be a lot more trouble than it's worth for either country. International opposition aside, it would mean assuming responsibility for feeding the local population, rebuilding the infrastructure, etc. And ultimately, accepting as citizens millions of people who are barely better than refugees. China and Russia would much rather leave the whole sorry mess for South Korea to handle and pay the bill for.
 
Thanks for all the comments. I've read through all of them and seen the feedback everyone provided. I thank all of you having interest in my ("successful") TL :D

That being said, I have seen dozens of compaints over the last few updates regarding a mass scale terrorist attack. Because of this, I will be re-writing the last two updates to be a bit more realistic (having the terrorist attack only happen in Japan, South Korea, and maybe the western United States). After careful consideration, I have realized that many of these comments are quite correct and having the entire world bury their heads in the sand would not be plausible at all.

I'm currently down with the flu right now, but I'll get back to writing within this week.

-From your author, Okmangeez.

Good to hear. Get well soon! :3

Grabbing chunks of North Korea would be a lot more trouble than it's worth for either country. International opposition aside, it would mean assuming responsibility for feeding the local population, rebuilding the infrastructure, etc. And ultimately, accepting as citizens millions of people who are barely better than refugees. China and Russia would much rather leave the whole sorry mess for South Korea to handle and pay the bill for.

Why does everyone simply assume a land grab? Neither Russia or China would want to earn the personal enmity of a thriving, powerful economy for a few scraps of poorly developed land when they could just do business with it. Most likely, they'll just force their way into involvement into the UN occupation and try to convince Seoul not to allow continued US deployment in Korea. Other than that, I can't see them having any greater designs on Korean territory, certainly not one warranting annexation and the whole deal of trying to stave off refugee flooding and infrastructure building.

On the topic of North Korean attacks, it's likely they'll be best placed to target South Korea and Japan, the latter due to the very upfront presence of Chongryon and other North Korean sympathizers. Russian and Chinese border cities like Dandong, (PRC) Yanbian (PRC), Ussuriysk (RUS) and Vladivostok (RUS) are also prime targets. Beyond that, North Korea would need a whole lot of competence to hit any further. I'll see what the author has in mind. :)

Problem is, the UN doesn't have much power. If China and Russia do just grab bits of North Korea, what's the UN going to do? Impose sanctions on them? It's difficult to criticize them for intervening when, you know, they've just been subject to massive terrorist attacks.

If China and Russia *don't* intervene, sooner or later Korea will be united and China will have a strong US ally on their doorstep. They obviously don't want that.

I suspect something like this might happen in the end:

Ack! Ninja'd!
 
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Okmangeez, get well soon!

fluttersky, what TL is that map from?

I believe it was a proposed division of Korea once this TL closes. Though, with the new edits, I'm not entirely sure if it'll turn out like that :)

Good news and bad news everyone.

Bad news is that I missed school today and I'm still sick.

Good news is that I missed school and have more time to type, which means an update today or tomorrow :D
 
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