Northern Limit Line

[OAM47]

How is the mentioning of the Iraq War biased? George W Bush wouldn't want to give his reputation a double-whammy with one unnecessary war.

Eh, it's more how it's portrayed. George W Bush made some dumb decisions, decisions I deeply disagree with, but the way he's written here he sounds more like a Saturday morning cartoon villain than a real character. He comes off as wanting to invade Iraq "because". "Because" doesn't make for good drama, it's boring.

That said, I'm greatly enjoying this TL so far. I'd attribute the above fault and any others more than anything due to the incredible focus on other areas such as the actual military engagements. That's not a knock on the TL or author. We all have our specialties. I'm just saying it's kind of showing. There's nothing wrong with that, and nothing putting forth the extra distance as an author can't fix. So far it all seems to be going well.

 

[okmangeez]

Eh, it's more how it's portrayed. George W Bush made some dumb decisions, decisions I deeply disagree with, but the way he's written here he sounds more like a Saturday morning cartoon villain than a real character. He comes off as wanting to invade Iraq "because". "Because" doesn't make for good drama, it's boring.

That said, I'm greatly enjoying this TL so far. I'd attribute the above fault and any others more than anything due to the incredible focus on other areas such as the actual military engagements. That's not a knock on the TL or author. We all have our specialties. I'm just saying it's kind of showing. There's nothing wrong with that, and nothing putting forth the extra distance as an author can't fix. So far it all seems to be going well.

Much thanks

And yes. I do have a bias against Bush. I'll try to limit that bias in future updates. But the things he did ruined America.

 

[Roland Traveler]

Much thanks

And yes. I do have a bias against Bush. I'll try to limit that bias in future updates. But the things he did ruined America.

I wouldn't say ruin. I see him as a well meaning man, just not right for the job. More like Grant than what you say.

Good story, by the way.

 

[Cascadia]

I wouldn't say ruin. I see him as a well meaning man, just not right for the job. More like Grant than what you say.

Good story, by the way.

Agreed, I see the issue more about who his advisors were than Bush himself. He truly believed in what he did at the time. Bush had intended on being a domestic president, not a war president when he was first elected.

That being said, I am really enjoying this story.

 

[Ariosto]

How is the mentioning of the Iraq War biased? George W Bush wouldn't want to give his reputation a double-whammy with one unnecessary war.

Eh, it's more how it's portrayed. George W Bush made some dumb decisions, decisions I deeply disagree with, but the way he's written here he sounds more like a Saturday morning cartoon villain than a real character. He comes off as wanting to invade Iraq "because". "Because" doesn't make for good drama, it's boring.

That said, I'm greatly enjoying this TL so far. I'd attribute the above fault and any others more than anything due to the incredible focus on other areas such as the actual military engagements. That's not a knock on the TL or author. We all have our specialties. I'm just saying it's kind of showing. There's nothing wrong with that, and nothing putting forth the extra distance as an author can't fix. So far it all seems to be going well.

Essentially what OAM47 said. Nothing wrong with mentioning the Iraq War, just in the way Bush is presented on the issue.

And no, I don't believe he ruined America, I lay much of that blame upon his advisors like Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz and the preeminent one, Vice President Dick Cheney. They mucked up quite a bit on the Global scene, whereas the Domestic scene was largely the result of a bad hand in terms of scandals, butterflies, and economic bubbles.​

 

[Gukpard]

I sugested the therm "Continuation war" because that's how the second soviet finnish war (1941-1944) is called, while they had a treaty ending the winter war, the continuation war was just that, a continuation, just like is hapenning in korea right now

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

Would Iraq be mentioned in this TL as a side story because I'd like to see how Iraq fares on its own.

 

[okmangeez]

Would Iraq be mentioned in this TL as a side story because I'd like to see how Iraq fares on its own.

It will be. Sorry for the lack of updates.... I usually don't write or anything on weekends

 

[okmangeez]

"You might think we're cruel, but we save lives like doctors do. Except, we put bullets instead of knives into people to save people." -Unnamed soldier

+++++

Paju
Republic of Korea
July 25th, 2002
9:00 AM KST

The intense fighting continued as Paju was pounded over and over again with artillery and air strikes. The once peaceful city of Paju was now a battleground, with the Republic of Korea Army and the United States Forces Korea fiercely resisting the large and endless Korean People's Army. Currently, around 750,000 North Korean soldiers had invaded the South at the same time, with around 365,000 South Korean and American soldiers resisting. Ever since the surprise attack across the border, South Korea had gone on the defensive to prevent the approaching army from hitting Seoul. So far, the army had done a miraculous job of bogging down the North Korean army using artillery strikes and limited air strikes. However, the enemy continued to push on forward, and the the army was now the last line of defense to the capital.

Lieutenant Colonel Kim In Hee swore as a North Korean jet crashed into the ground near his position. The entire V Corps of the Third Army, dubbed the 'Victorious Advance', was sent to reinforce Paju after the survivors of the 1st Armored and 1st Infantry Divisions retreated from Panmunjeom, giving North Korea the first "victory" of the war. Since then, Paju had been the hot bed of fighting and destruction as both sides clashed in the air, on the land, and at sea near the or in the city. Jets were downed at a rapid rate over the city while tanks (mostly North Korean ones) were destroyed in the destruction. Lieutenant Colonel Kim's division, the 3rd Infantry Division, was tasked with holding the North Koreans back from the Paju (Seoul District) Medical Center, where thousands of wounded civilians and soldiers alike were being treated. So far, they hadn't seen much combat, but remained on high alert in front of the hospital.

"Shit! The North Koreans are coming down Tongil Road (literally means "Unity Road") from the North!" Colonel Lim Sun Woo swore as he pounded his fist into the table. The officers were in a command tent right in front of the hospital, overseeing the situation in the city. "The North Koreans are crawling towards Dandong 2 Road and we have reports that they're advancing despite the resistance."

The other officers were quite grim. American support was coming, but it would still take at least a few weeks, if not longer, for heavy support to arrive. Till then, the South Korean soldiers were on their own with some American officers and troops helping them. And so far, the battle for Paju looked skewed to the North Koreans. The North Koreans were simply overpowering the South Korean positions with numbers.

"How are the defenses currently in the city?" Lieutenant Colonel Kim inquired. "How bad is the situation?"

"The 6th Infantry is currently holding a couple of factories owned by EG Korea in the northwest. The North Koreans have a foothold in the north, as they have captured a shopping mall and a couple of apartments so far. We have some elements of the VI Corps 'Advance' near there, with their 5th Armored Brigade supporting our 8th Infantry Division around the Shinhwamoonsan Gas Station to safely transport the oil away from the front lines. Currently, we have the 705th Special Assault Team (Special Forces) evacuating senior citizens from the Paju Senior Citizens Apartments, with the 5th Artillery Brigade stationed nearby to pound the Norks around the area."

"What about the Seonyu-Ri district?" 1st Lieutenant Choe Soo Bin asked the colonel. "Do we even have enough forces to protect the entire city of Paju?"

The colonel shook his head. "We don't. The Capital Reserves have refused to assist us and we've only received trickles of conscripts so far. The I Corps is holding that area, but they're pretty mauled after the 1st Infantry had to pull off that insane defense of Panmunjeom for 3 days. We'll hold for now, but we need more assistance. We're getting some more from the east apparently, but it'll take a while to organize and transfer troops to the west."

Just then, the radio started to crackle. "This is 'OLYMPIC' (name of the 72nd Reserve Infantry Division under the 3rd Army) Captain Lee Joon Ha at the Miracle. I repeat, this is 'OLYMPIC' Captain Lee Joon Ha. Come in command."

"This is command. What is it Captain Lee?" Colonel Lim asked the officer.

"Sir! The North Koreans have apparently managed to exploit a brief hole in the Han Blockade and brought in some amphibious ships and assault crafts along with some platoon bridges. They're about to flank us and the position they're about to strike is directly adjacent to M.H.! We need support immediately (M.H. is Musan hospital, located southwest of Paju)!"

That caused a stir among the officers. The hospital was for the critically wounded that couldn't be treated at the Medical Center and was rather lightly guarded due to the fact that it was further away from the front lines. The division that was assigned to it, the 3rd Division, was moved away from the hospital after the Im Bridge was destroyed by the 705th Special Assault Division as the V Corps began the defense of Paju.

"This might get bad really fast..." Lieutenant Colonel Kim muttered under his breath, cursing the North Koreans. Meanwhile, Colonel Lim was in a panic and was calling the other divisions and reserves.

"We need assistance at Paju immediately... Yes! Send the 5th Infantry Division to reinforce the area! Bring in the 31st Homeland Defense Infantry Division, and fast! We definitely need support and bring in the Navy to take out those bridges and ships!"

And the battle raged on across the war stricken city of Paju...

 

[urielventis]

Very good work

I'm thinking that other country, opposing Bush on the Irak intervention, may agreed to deploy troop in Korea.
Countries who participate in the first Korean War.
The Charles de Gaulle Aircraft Carrier is in the Indian Ocean in June 2002.
The Rafale Marine have just complete their integration operation, so it could be their first operation. The aircraft carrier complement was 5 rafale, 16 super etendard, two E2C hawkeye and some SAR helos. His task force was composed of the three frigates (Lamote-Picquet, Jean de Vienne and Jean Bart), an aviso (Commandant Ducuing), a nuclear attack submarine (Rubis) and a tanker (Meuse).
I'm searching who is the Guepard unit (french fast reaction battlegroup, mostly paratroopers) at this time .
A new French Battalion in Korea would be good.

 

[okmangeez]

Very good work

I'm thinking that other country, opposing Bush on the Irak intervention, may agreed to deploy troop in Korea.
Countries who participate in the first Korean War.
The Charles de Gaulle Aircraft Carrier is in the Indian Ocean in June 2002.
The Rafale Marine have just complete their integration operation, so it could be their first operation. The aircraft carrier complement was 5 rafale, 16 super etendard, two E2C hawkeye and some SAR helos. His task force was composed of the three frigates (Lamote-Picquet, Jean de Vienne and Jean Bart), an aviso (Commandant Ducuing), a nuclear attack submarine (Rubis) and a tanker (Meuse).
I'm searching who is the Guepard unit (french fast reaction battlegroup, mostly paratroopers) at this time .
A new French Battalion in Korea would be good.

Thank you

Mmmm possibly. But the French don't have any mutual defense obligations with Korea though. So I can see some troops being sent, but I'm not entirely sure if they'll send an air craft carrier.

 

[urielventis]

They don't have mutual defence obligation, yes, but they don't have one with Koweit in 1991. So with a well written UN resolution, the army can go.
We are talking about a dictatorship attacking a friendly democracy.

In fact it would be simple to send an aircraft carrier than ground troops, the carrier is nearby and can be useful while minimizing potential French casualties.

If ground troops are send, there is two possibilities:
-fast reinforcement, so the "guepard", I don't think that a light paratroopers/marines infantry/legion on foot/truck would be useful in the kind of fighting in the Korean peninsula. But they can be there in a week (24hours for the first one).
Maybe reinforcing the embassy guard with a paratroopers/marines infantry/legion company first?
-heavy one, a mechanised brigade will be perfect for the kind of heavy warfare. But they will take a month to come, maybe more.

And yes I'm a fan of the French Battalion in Korea. The various contingent of the first Korean war have a really impressive history. The personal guard of the Ethiopian Emperor fight in Korea! Even Luxembourg send troops.

 

[MrP]

They don't have mutual defence obligation, yes, but they don't have one with Koweit in 1991. So with a well written UN resolution, the army can go.

I would agree with this, the French are likely to come to the assistance of South Korea if they can move assets rapidly enough. A UN resolution authorising the use of force against North Korean aggression is fairly certain--at worst Russia and China will abstain, though I could see them actually voting in favour just to make a point--and then this will be a lot like the liberation of Kuwait in 1991. With the added bonus that the country being defended is a democracy rather than a oil sheikdom.

It's also bound to help tilt the balance of international public opinion that most major powers have lots of nationals present in South Korea on the occasion of the World Cup.

 

[Pesterfield]

So with a well written UN resolution, the army can go.

Are the original resolutions still in force, or would new ones be written?

 

[Tyg]

Thank you

Mmmm possibly. But the French don't have any mutual defense obligations with Korea though. So I can see some troops being sent, but I'm not entirely sure if they'll send an air craft carrier.

One thing that the French and other Europeans would want to make an effort to do, even before a UN resolution passes, is to evacuate their nationals from South Korea, or at least the Seoul metro area. Japan would similarly have an interest in that.

 

[urielventis]

Are the original resolutions still in force, or would new ones be written?

Interesting idea, if the old resolutions (n°82 and 83) are still in place it will ease the legal point.
The text:

The Security Council,
Recalling the finding of the General Assembly in its resolution 293 (IV) of 21 October 1949 that the Government of the Republic of Korea is a lawfully established government having effective control and jurisdiction over that Part of Korea where the United Nations Temporary Commission on Korea was able to observe and consult and in which the great majority of the people of Korea reside; that this Government is based on elections which were a valid expression of the free will of the electorate of that part of Korea and which were observed by the Temporary Commission, and that this is the only such Government in Korea,
Mindful of the concern expressed by the General Assembly in its resolutions 195 (III) of 12 December 1948 and 293 (IV) of 21 October 1949 about the consequences which might follow unless Member States refrained from acts derogatory to the results sought to be achieved by the United Nations in bringing about the complete independence and unity of Korea; and the concern expressed that the situation described by the United Nations Commission on Korea in its report menaces the safety and well-being of the Republic of Korea and of the people of Korea and might lead to open military conflict there,
Noting with grave concern the armed attack on the Republic of Korea by forces from North Korea,
Determines that this action constitutes a breach of the peace; and
I
Calls for the immediate cessation of hostilities;
Calls upon the authorities in North Korea to withdraw forthwith their armed forces to the 38th parallel;
II
Requests the United Nations Commission on Korea:
(a) To communicate its fully considered recommendations on the situation with the least possible delay;
(b) To observe the withdrawal of North Korean forces to the 38th parallel;
(c) To keep the Security Council informed on the execution of this resolution:
III
Calls upon all Member States to render every assistance to the United Nations in the execution of this resolution and. to refrain from giving assistance to the North Korean authorities.

​

−text of UN Security Council Resolution 82

n°83:

The Security Council,
Having determined that the armed attack upon the Republic of Korea by forces from North Korea constitutes a breach of the peace,
Having called for an immediate cessation of hostilities,
Having called upon the authorities in North Korea to withdraw forthwith their armed forces to the 38th parallel,
Having noted from the report of the United Nations Commission on Korea1 that the authorities in North Korea have neither ceased hostilities nor withdrawn their armed forces to the 38th parallel, and that urgent military measures are required to restore international peace and security,
Having noted the appeal from the Republic of Korea to the United Nations for immediate and effective steps to secure peace and security,
Recommends that the Members of the United Nations furnish such assistance to the Republic of Korea as may be necessary to repel the armed attack and to restore international peace and security in the area.
Adopted at the 474th meeting
by 7 votes to 1 (Yugoslavia).

The armistice agreement solved one point of the resolution : North Korea is behind the 38th parallel, but as they cross it again, the resolution are still in force.

 

[zert]

I just caught up on the story and action. Damn things are getting bloody and desperate for the South Koreans. I would expect that the B-52s, B-1s. and B-2s of the USAF will be beginning their raids on North Korea. Get some carpet bombing on NK choke points and see the supply of the forces in SK losing their ammo dumps.

Looking forward to the next update.

Will their be strikes against the Supreme Leader and other commanders now?

 

[okmangeez]

I just caught up on the story and action. Damn things are getting bloody and desperate for the South Koreans. I would expect that the B-52s, B-1s. and B-2s of the USAF will be beginning their raids on North Korea. Get some carpet bombing on NK choke points and see the supply of the forces in SK losing their ammo dumps.

Looking forward to the next update.

Will their be strikes against the Supreme Leader and other commanders now?

Thanks

And yep. We'll definitely see the bombing of North Korea by the US and SK.

Next update will be delayed a bit because I got my laptop taken away. Stay tuned..

 

[zert]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your laptop. Hope you were able to get it back.

Update when you can. Look forward to the action.

 

[okmangeez]

"Brave men rejoice in adversity, just as brave soldiers triumph in war." -Lucius Annaeus Seneca

+++++

Above the skies of Paju
Republic of Korea
July 25th, 2002
4:00 PM KST

"This is Red leader of the 120th, we're moving into strike North Korean positions. Awaiting clearance, over." First Lieutenant Hwang Ji Woo shouted into his mic.

The 20 jets of the 120th F-16 Fighter Squadron screamed over the war torn city of Paju. The South Korean forces were resisting furiously, but the North Korean tide had broken the defense at the northern end of the city. It was now the squadron's job to delay the North Korean advance long enough for the 6th Infantry Division and the 5th Armored and 8th Infantry to withdraw and escape to prevent valuable oil from falling into enemy hands.

"This is air command, you are cleared to engage targets. Delay the advance and assist the ground assets so they can escape. This is a do or die mission. Make it count, over."

The first lieutenant relayed the orders to the other fighters and they all complied, with half of the forces assisting the 5th Armored and 8th Infantry in the east while the other half, led by First Lieutenant Hwang, flew towards the west to prevent the destruction of the 6th Infantry. First Lieutenant Hwang screamed orders as the jets streaked towards Bangchon Road, where a few soldiers of the 6th Infantry Division were holding off the North Koreans while the rest of the unit escaped.

"Hit the North Korean tanks and artillery thoroughly! We need to delay the North Koreans long enough for our troops to rally and be reinforced with the reserves from the capital! Failure is not an option here. Am I understood?"

"Yes sir!" Replied 9 voices as the 10 jets began their descent to hit North Korean positions.

The 10 jets closed in on the North Korean artillery and tanks as the anti air craft guns began to fire on the moving jets. One Korean jet was shot out of the air and crashed into the city below, but the other jets evaded the anti-air fire and launched their payload of guided bombs at the targets. The bombs struck tanks and artillery alike, along with some anti-air craft guns also. For a moment, the North Koreans were in a disarray as the final few South Korean troops began to withdraw south. After launching the smart bombs, the F-16s turned around and began strafing North Korean infantry units with their M61A1 Vulcan cannon. The North Koreans were bloodied and bruised and retreated Dangdong Road 2 for the time being.

Damn. We killed at least half a dozen tanks and artillery pieces and bloodied a couple hundred of them, but they're still coming. Lieutenant Hwang thought as he pulled his jet away from Paju and back to Seosan Air Base. This is going to be a long ass war...


*Longer update coming soon.