North America around 1200AD

Revolutionary Todyo

Banned
Can anyone give me a very basic overview of the Americas during the High Middle Ages IOTL, or provide any suitable links?

I am completely ignorant of Native American history pre-European contact and I'd rather not just make shit-up.

Danke for any forth coming help.
 

snerfuplz

I can't tell you anything above the border of Mexico from what I know it is densely populated with fairly advanced cultures (just not technological advanced due to lack of domestication). Basically nothing like North America when the Pilgrims landed for this was post apocalyptic (due to small pox and other domesticated diseases that the Europeans carried) land.
 
9 Fanged Hummingbird

9 Fanged Hummingbird

Are you including Mesoamerica in your definition of North America? Because there's a lot of sources about what was going on there. North of the Valley of Mexico things get a bit fuzzier, what with the lack of written records and all.
 

Revolutionary Todyo

Banned
snerfuplz said:
I can't tell you anything above the border of Mexico from what I know it is densely populated with fairly advanced cultures (just not technological advanced due to lack of domestication). Basically nothing like North America when the Pilgrims landed for this was post apocalyptic (due to small pox and other domesticated diseases that the Europeans carried) land.
Click to expand...

Yes the Mississipi river culture made some pretty kick ass city states.

I heard that a Portugese explorer once said that New England was so densely populated that you could smell the smoke of camp and cook fires a mile out to sea.

9 Fanged Hummingbird said:
Are you including Mesoamerica in your definition of North America? Because there's a lot of sources about what was going on there. North of the Valley of Mexico things get a bit fuzzier, what with the lack of written records and all.
Click to expand...

Yes definately include Meso America.

From what I know the Mayans were pretty much the dominant force in that area.
 

snerfuplz

Revolutionary Todyo said:
I heard that a Portugese explorer once said that New England was so densely populated that you could smell the smoke of camp and cook fires a mile out to sea.
Click to expand...

I have heard that too and I am inclined to believe it.

Revolutionary Todyo said:
Yes definately include Meso America.

From what I know the Mayans were pretty much the dominant force in that area.
Click to expand...

Dominant force might be stretching it but 9 Fang knows more then I do
 
9 Fanged Hummingbird

9 Fanged Hummingbird

Actually in the 1200's the Maya were more united than usual, that was the century in which Chichen Itza was overthrown and Mayapan created. The traditional date given is 1221. Mayapan ruled most of the northern Yucatan area. The Itza probably fled south, into the Peten. Thanks to the Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel we know a lot about Mayapan, down to specific people and lineages in the city it seems. The K'iche' Kingdom was also established in this century and it rapidly came to dominate the Maya Highlands south of Yucatan. In Mexico Cholula was one of the dominant cities, if not the dominant city given that even the greatest of Mixtec lords seem to have paid tribute and pledged support to them. The city of Azcapotzalco in this century rose to dominate the Valley of Mexico, although Culhuacan remained a rival for this dominance. The Mexica (Aztecs) arrived at the very end of the century and are of no consequence as far as this discussion goes. I can't find a lot of information on Cholula at this time unfortunately, but I do know the identities of the first two Speakers (kings) of Azcapotzalco at this time, Matlacohuatl and his son Chiconquiauhtzin. I know more in-depth information about Mapayan though, and even more in-depth info on the K'iche kingdom. Unfortunately the Maya polities of the Peten remain enigmatic, though there was at least one large city in that rainforest that maintained close links with Mayapan. The Itza probably settled Tayasal around this time.

I can provide more detailed info on the Maya of these times later when you need me to.
 
St. Just

St. Just

The Olmecs (who came millennia before the 1200s) are seen as the forebears of the various cultures of the Valley of Mexico (Teotihuacan, eventually the Tlaxcallans, Aztecs, Totonacs et al).

The Mayans were both separate and in my opinion more impressive- they certainly lasted a long time after both their collapse and the European conquests. If they had been unified at the time of Columbus, we might see an independent Maya state.
 

Revolutionary Todyo

Banned
I think one of my problems with the Mesoamerican peoples is my habit of basically skimming over the names of people and cities. Like I never actually pay attention to them, and so basically miss out all the information :p
 

twovultures

Donor
1200 AD saw (according to some theories) the southward migration of the ancestors of the Navajo and Apache peoples along the Rocky Mountains.

I believe that it was around this time that we see a widespread adoption of maize by Iroquoian and Algonqian speaking peoples around the Great Lakes too.
 

pa_dutch

Let's see:

Northeastern North America: This is the climax of the Norse settlements in Greenland. It's possible that the Vikings were still trading with the mainland Native Americans at this time, but this is supposedly two centuries past the date of the short-lived Vinland settlement (possibly connected to L'Anse aux Meadows on the northern tip of Newfoundland.)

Most of the northeast is in the Late Woodlands era of cultural development, with a varying mix of true agriculture, horticulture, and hunting and gathering across the region. The Little Ice Age is beginning to trigger an amalgamation of smaller tribes into larger confederations. Most historians doubt the Iroquois Confederacy came into existence this early, though a few use an Iroquois oral legend that possibly refers to a total solar eclipse as evidence that they came together around 1142 AD.

Southeastern and Midwestern North America: This is height of the Mississippian culture, with stratified chiefdoms containing large, agricultural settlements and distinctive earthworks (hence the term "moundbuilders"). The largest and most impressive is Cahokia in Illinois, with Moundville in Alabama not far behind and Emerald Mound in Mississippi on the rise at this time.

Northwestern North America: The Pacific Northwest Coast is distinctive among world cultures for maintaining a hunting-and-gathering level of food production at a relatively high level of social stratification.

Southwestern North America: The Pueblo III culture of the Anasazi sees the abandonment of Chaco Canyon as a major spiritual center and the rise of Mesa Verde as its replacement, projecting influence onto outlying villages while indirectly absorbing indirect influence from Mesoamerica as local elites seek imported goods as status symbols (like scarlet macaw feathers and cacao beans). Other, neighboring settled cultures such as the Hohokam and Mogollon are also in their prime at this time. The nomadic Southern Athabascan peoples such as the Navajo and the Apache have not yet migrated this far south.
 
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