Napoleon's Diadochi: what if he had made more of his marshals heads of state?

[Kellan Sullivan]

hough having Napoleon throw in with the House of Savoy might be interesting too. Macdonald was also unmarried between 1804 and 1821- wonder if there was someone he could've married to link him (and thus the Napoleonic brand) to the Jacobite cause of his forefathe

Britain would be Jacobite. Napoléon summoned Louise of Stolberg (BPC widow) to Paris shortly after his coronation to find out if there was any truth to the rumour that she had birthed BPC's son in the 1770s. She said no, he responded by putting her under house arrest. Then he wrote to the Cardinal King Henry Benedict., offering him the crown of England. Unfortunately, he made the gaffe of calling the cardinal "mon cousin" and "mon frère". A mistake the cardinal king pointed out in his response although he neither accepted nor declined the offer AFAIK. Finally, at his wit's end with "these Stuarts" Napoléon got the idea in his head to marry Eugène de Beauharnais to Maria Beatrice of Savoy (the - eventual - Jacobite heiress once her dad and uncle died and provided she had no brother). The response from the house of Savoy was positive hysterics

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

also, Alexander I of Russia pushed Napoléon to name Jérôme as "king of Poland" OTL at Tilsit. Nappy refused

 

[Strategos' Risk]

also, Alexander I of Russia pushed Napoléon to name Jérôme as "king of Poland" OTL at Tilsit. Nappy refused

Jerome in Warsaw while his wife and son in London...

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Jerome in Warsaw while his wife and son in London...

I doubt Alexander would push for this if Jérôme isn't married to his cousin. Although given Trinette of Württemberg being the daughter of George III's niece (ergo having a claim to the British throne of her own), it can be used to justify Jérôme's position in London far better as in @wwbgdiaslt 's TL

 

[Kaiser of Brazil]

I could easily see Napoleon, in case of a victorious campaign against Russia, placing Poniatowski as King of a restored Poland, not only was he a brave French Marshal that impressed the Emperor with the use of his Lancers, he is already related to the last Polish King. It would be an easy picking for someone acceptable by the Poles and loyal to him. And of course he gets to humiliate Alexander for betraying him.

 

[TrickyApe]

According to Michael Broers, Napoleon had soured on the concept of friends & family vassal kings by 1810 and was going for direct French administration after that. I don't know what would change his mind here if we're talking about hypothetical conquests after that date.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Were there any turncoat Russians who served under Boney?

Just what was his endgame in Russia anyway? Anyone he wanted to elevate there?

 

[alexmilman]

Just what was his endgame in Russia anyway? Anyone he wanted to elevate there?

That was the problem: he did not have any end game.

 

[RedSword12]

Just what was his endgame in Russia anyway? Anyone he wanted to elevate there?

He intended to expand the Duchy of Warsaw and coerce Tsar Alexander to reenter the Continental System. There was the thought of carving out territory for Prussia and Austria as well. There was no intention of regime change.

 

[Rafi_T]

Over the years I have collected Napoleonic trivia for a timeline I wrote for my own pleasure (It’s so not practical compared to the excellent timelines I’ve enjoyed here)

Anyway, I always thought that, if Napoleon conquered the British Isles, he would split it up into three kingdoms (England, Scotland and Ireland. I never came to any final determination about Wales.) and then turn the 3 into a Confederation like the Confederation of the Rhine which would be called the “Ligue des trois royaumes” (League of the Three Kingdoms)

And, as Napoleon was the OTL “ Protecteur de la Confédération” for the Confederation of the Rhine, he would assume Oliver Cromwell’s old title of “Lord-Protector” and become “Seigneur Protecteur des trois royaumes sur deux îles” ( Lord Protector of the three kingdoms on two islands).

King George III would officially become “Citizen Hanover” and be exiled to the Isle of Man a la OTL Elba.

Like Stratego’s Risk, I think Henri Jacques Guillaume Clarke, who was Irish would be an excellent administrator for the new Kingdom of Ireland.

Marshal Étienne Jacques-Joseph-Alexandre Macdonald had a Scottish father. I think he would be a good Viceroy for Scotland. (In OTL 1825, after the Napoleonic wars were over, he visited Scotland checking out his Scottish roots.)

Marshal Édouard Mortier’s mother was English and he spoke fluent English so I would have him govern England. As for a new King of England, I would have Napoleon pull off Edward I’s “Prince of Wales” gambit whereby he would give the English people a king born in England who did not speak a word of French..

This gambit’s background: Napoleon’s wayward youngest brother Jerome had married an American socialite named Elizabeth “Betsy” Patterson, much against Napoleon’s will. When the couple tried to enter Europe to change Napoleon’s mind, they were detained in Portugal. Jerome was allowed to proceed into the French Empire, but Betsy, who was pregnant, was forbidden to do so. (OTL they never saw each other again.)

OTL, she went to England and gave birth there to Jerome’s son and named the baby “Jérôme-Napoléon Bonaparte” on July 7, 1805. In my TL, Napoleon would have this nephew of his become the new Prince of Wales. His brother Jerome would become King of England (instead of OTL King of Westphalia) and be reunited with Betsy who would be an American “Queen Elizabeth”.

I think Napoleon would enjoy humbling the English like this.

Would love to hear about this trivia, especially if you have anything on any and all proposed marriages for Napoleon (and his son). Right now I’ve got like 6 for the Emperor and about 3 for the Eaglet.

Is this speculation or did Napoleon actually want to chop England up like this and make himself Lord Protector?

 

[Rafi_T]

Here is a map of the proposed tripartite Napoleonic division of Portugal .....Portugal Map

In “Napoleon: A Life” by Andrew Roberts, on page 474, tells the why and how of dividing Portugal into three parts. (The French had just taken over Etruria, in Italy, and Napoleon had given it to his sister Elisa. Etruria had been ruled by Maria Luisa, daughter of the Spanish King Charles IV and her husband Louis).



Maria Luisa’s share of Portugal was to be known as “The Kingdom of North Lusitania”. In “Napoleon: A Biography” by Frank McLynn, on page 390, Godoy’s share was to be “all Portugal south of the Tagus as his personal fief”.

Honestly, I get why they had to pay back Etruria, but I do feel like not annexing all of Portugal to Spain is more trouble than it’s worth.

 

[Rafi_T]

To be honest, I think this is a non-starter. Napoleon didn’t plan on making any of his marshals monarchs and no information has ever been produced by historians AFAIK to support this speculation. Murat became Duke of Berg and later King of Naples because he was married to a Bonaparte and she nagged her brother into giving her a crown. Murat getting one too (as her husband) was just a side-effect.

Bernadotte becoming King of Sweden (eventually) was also a strange twist of fate, not a plan. Bernadotte had been critical of Napoleon’s generalship in 1809 and then bungled his own handling of the Saxon Corps at Wagram for which he was dismissed from the Army of Germany. Cooling his heels in Paris, he was available to lead French forces at Antwerp when the British made their futile and ineffective landing in Walcheren. This somewhat redeemed Bernadotte but Napoleon didn’t want him back in an important position in the (main) army. So when the Swedes came looking for a Napoleonic Marshal to succeed their King and cement ties with France, they asked for Bernadotte because he had captured Swedish forces in 1806 and had made a very good impression on them. For Napoleon, it was a golden opportunity to get rid of semi-disgraced Bernadotte and provide Mrs. Bernadotte with a crown. Bernadotte’s wife had long been the reason Bernadotte got away with things that would have seen other Napoleonic commanders dismissed.

Napoleon is often portrayed as a ruthless and calculating individual but in reality, he was incapable of standing up to the nagging/bullying of his entitled sisters and had a soft spot for Desiree Clary, his fiancée, whom he would later dump for Josephine. She would subsequently marry Bernadotte which certainly helped his career. Getting her a crown was his way of making it up to her.



None of the other marshals were ever intended to get crowns. Only Napoleon’s family was so lucky and that didn’t even include his beloved stepson Eugene de Beauharnais (although the crown of Italy was dangled before him).

That doesn’t mean the marshals didn’t want crowns and between 1808 and 1810 there was a genuine expectation that some of them might be crowned. After all, some of them were given ducal and princely titles and huge estates. A small kingdom was therefore not so far fetched.

Marshal Soult was allegedly the most keen on acquiring a crown and Napoleon’s plans for Portugal had been to divide it into three kingdoms with one going to Spanish chief minister and chief plotter Godoy so that left two others up for grabs. Junot was seen as a candidate and Soult desperately wanted the remaining kingdom to be. And maybe Spain might be carved up too. The marshals in Spain certainly believed it was a possibility which is also one reason why they never gave King Joseph any respect. Wellington kicking Soult out of Portugal in 1809 and the failure to finish the war in Spain and Portugal in 1810 ended those dreams.

Didn’t know that was the case in Portugal. I always understood that central Portugal was to be annexed to Spain, while the north and south were to be created into 2 kingdoms, one to someone I can’t remember, and the other to Godoy to get him out of Spain without a fuss.

 

[Rafi_T]

also, Alexander I of Russia pushed Napoléon to name Jérôme as "king of Poland" OTL at Tilsit. Nappy refused

Wait, seriously? Why would Alexander want a Kingdom of Poland? He hated a mere duchy!

 

[RedSword12]

Wait, seriously? Why would Alexander want a Kingdom of Poland? He hated a mere duchy!

I'm skeptical that it's true, but if it is, the motive was probably to ensure that Poland would be a French satellite state and not be able to pursue independent foreign policy in contravention to the Tilsit agreements.

 

[Rattenfänger von Memphis]

Would love to hear about this trivia, especially if you have anything on any and all proposed marriages for Napoleon (and his son). Right now I’ve got like 6 for the Emperor and about 3 for the Eaglet.

Is this speculation or did Napoleon actually want to chop England up like this and make himself Lord Protector?

I don't have anything on Napoleonic marriages (except for Jerome and Betsy).

Most of the Lord Protector, etc trivia was my own speculation but Napoleon gave his own account of what he intended to do in England himself (and Ireland) in an interview with Barry O’Meara during his exile at Longwood, St. Helena.

Here are some excerpts from this interview with Napoleon’s thoughts in 1817 on his invasion plans for England. In it, Napoleon thought once he landed in England, it would take him four days to capture London among other details.(The full interview is in the link above.)

O'Meara to Hudson Lowe 28th January 1817, Longwood

Dear Sir
the following conversation which took place yesterday between General Bonaparte and myself may probably not be uninteresting to you.

Finding him in a tolerable good humour and apparently ready to communicate, I took an opportunity of asking him whether he ever had really intended to invade England? and if so, what were his Plans? and also whether he thought he would be successful? He replied (without hesitation) “It was my firm Intention to invade England and to head the expedition myself….….. I intended then to push over under their protection the Boulogne Flotilla, with 200,000 men, to land near Sheerness and Chatham, and to push directly for London where I calculated to arrive in Four Days. During the march, I would have made my army observe the most exemplary discipline, marauding or otherwise injuring or insulting the inhabitants would have been punished with instant Death. I would have published a proclamation (which I would have had ready) declaring that we were only come as friends to the English nation, to render them free and to relieve them from an obnoxious and despotical Aristocracy, whose object was to keep them eternally at war in order to enrich themselves and their families at the expense of the blood of the people. Arrived at London I would have proclaimed a Republic (I was First Consul then,” said he) Liberty, Equality, Sovereignty of the people, abolished the Monarchical Government, the nobility and the House of Peers, the House of Commons I would have retained with a great reform, the property of the nobles I would have declared to be forfeited and to be divided amongst the people, amongst the partizans of the Revolution, a general equality and division of property. By these means I hope to gain a formidable party, to be joined by all the “canaglie” in such a great city as London, by all the idle and disaffected in the kingdom and that, perhaps, I might ultimately succeed.”

…. I calculated upon having the sovereignty of the seas for two or three months, by which means I would have had supplies of troops (79r, p7). When your fleet did return, they would find their capital in the hands of an Enemy, the country overwhelmed with my armies. This might have had a great effect upon the sailors, together with my promises. I would have abolished flogging promised them everything. But even if they did remain faithful, which is doubtful, some vessels of there?? nightly dispatched from France with troops whenever the wind was fair, would succeed in landing. I would also have stirred up an insurrection in Ireland at the same time in order to divide and distract your government's exertions. Afterwards I would have acted according to circumstance. According to my strength. If I found myself strong enough I would have annexed England to France, if not, and it is probably doubtful whether I would have been able to do it, or not, I would have established a government as would be most consonant to my views….