Napoleon in Istanbul?

[Patukov]

I was looking for Ottoman military reforms for a sandbox game and then I came across this on wikipedia:

When they had requested French help, a young artillery officer by the name of Napoleon Bonaparte was to be sent to Istanbul. He did not go, for just days before he was to embark for the Near East he proved himself useful to the Directory by putting down a Parisian mob in the whiff of grapeshot and was kept in France.

(Main article)

So,what if he was sent?What consequences this would bring to the world?

 

[SavoyTruffle]

Ottomans rally and possibly, just possibly undo the gains of Catherine the Great? No Napoleonic France, likely.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Napoleon Bonaparte, Pasha of Egypt, sounds rather lovely.

 

[SavoyTruffle]

Napoleon Bonaparte, Pasha of Egypt, sounds rather lovely.

Considering an ethnic Albanian founded its ruling dynasty, it doesn't seem far-fetched. Then again, Albanians were part of the Ottoman Empire for much longer.

 

[Patukov]

Would he commanding a French-trained Ottoman force be able to maintain Selim III on the throne and defeat the Janissars?

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Considering an ethnic Albanian founded its ruling dynasty, it doesn't seem far-fetched. Then again, Albanians were part of the Ottoman Empire for much longer.

I'm pretty sure the Ottomans never conquered Italy but there quite the number of Italians in the Ottoman navy. A Coriscan won't be too far-fetched. Knowing Napoleon, he would convert to Islam or would eventually.

 

[Jester]

Yeah... No. he won't be converting.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Yeah... No. he won't be converting.

Yeah. Mind giving a few reasons why?

 

[Jester]

Name a prominent Western convert of the era. Explain why Napoleon would give up any chance of a career in France or Italy for what? Turkish indifference?

 

[archaeogeek]

Yeah. Mind giving a few reasons why?

Given that IOTL a number of french military advisors sent to the Grande Porte did end up going native and converting.
Given Napoleon's own rumored flirt with islam during the Egyptian campaign.
Given his view of christianity and I suspect religion in general as primarily something that is part of power.

Bonapart Pasha will be a muslim by the time he dies.

Name a prominent Western convert of the era. Explain why Napoleon would give up any chance of a career in France or Italy for what? Turkish indifference?

Murat Pasha, hero of polish independence who became a general in the Ottoman empire when in exile after 1848.
Abdullah Jacques François de Menou, baron de Boussay, one of Napoleon's own generals. He converted in Egypt - and he didn't give up his career in France, he died in 1803 still in french service.

 

[Alexius I Kommenos]

I agree Napoleon would make a great Pasha but I have one pressing concern how wil he deal with the Jannisaries, 54000 of them how will he get rid of them, they completly despised reforms and we all know what happens o a poor Ottomam Caliph who tries reforms....... So that's one problem, 2 the beurocracy is completly corrupt and decadent how will Napoleon deal with them.

3 The Persians were still a threat to Ottomam Hegemony

4: How will Nappy manage to reform the whole ottoman military
5: Will the populous really accept aFrenchman as the Ottoman caliph
6: France already had designs for Algiers are you really sure Nappy would go against his own people
7: the British had been eying hungrily at Egypt
8: The nobility of the Ottomans is corrupt to the core
9: Expect Some pretenders to contest Nappy
10: Add on to above what will prevent Austria and Russia from interfering in the Balkans



If Nappy can get past all these problems then I agree ue could start conquering other countries but first can he fix all these problems....

 

[RyuDrago]

I don't understand why you keep modest... We know all of you want to imagine a Napoleon as a Ottoman Caliph, even if is completely ASB

 

[Keenir]

Name a prominent Western convert of the era.

Captain Hobart, a pasha who left England to work with the Ottomans.

or is the head of the fleet not prominent enough?

Explain why Napoleon would give up any chance of a career in France or Italy for what? Turkish indifference?

what indifference?

just because the Ottomans had no desire to conquer all of Europe?

 

[archaeogeek]

Captain Hobart, a pasha who left England to work with the Ottomans.

or is the head of the fleet not prominent enough?

For more; the name I'd forgotten was the comte de Bonneval, Humbaraci Ahmet Pasha, military reformer and commander who went from being an officer in the french marines to a general in the ottoman army, he illustrated himself in wars against Russia, died relatively old in 1747. The Prince de Ligne wrote a book about the man, which aside from Europa Universalis II mentioning him in an Ottoman event is the only way I know of him.

Wikipedia also gives me a general who, from officer in the Armée d'Égypte, became a general for the Egyptian Khedive and converted under the name Suleiman Pasha.
He's also the great-great-grandfather of king Farouk.

 

[Nassirisimo]

Name a prominent Western convert of the era. Explain why Napoleon would give up any chance of a career in France or Italy for what? Turkish indifference?

Would Omar Pasha count? Are Croatians counted as westerners yet? He seemed to have a long and successful career in the Ottoman army.
Oh, and I remember AHP saying something a while back about how having Napoleon serving the Ottoman army wouldn't really have a dramatic effect. Something along the lines of the major thing stopping reform wasn't Ottoman incompetance or unwillingness to reform, but things such as the Janissaries.

 

[archaeogeek]

Would Omar Pasha count? Are Croatians counted as westerners yet? He seemed to have a long and successful career in the Ottoman army.
Oh, and I remember AHP saying something a while back about how having Napoleon serving the Ottoman army wouldn't really have a dramatic effect. Something along the lines of the major thing stopping reform wasn't Ottoman incompetance or unwillingness to reform, but things such as the Janissaries.

Then again the sultan did have the Janissary barracks gunned down; Napoleon may be the sort of impetus needed to eliminate them much earlier.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Yeah... No. he won't be converting.

Not literally. Napoleon's religion centered on a worship of. . . well, Napoleon.

But he certainly would claim to have converted to Islam if it suited his needs. He hinted to Islamic imams in Egypt that he was prepared to do so, after all. As he put it, "If I governed a nation of Jews, I should rebuild the Temple of Solomon."

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Then again the sultan did have the Janissary barracks gunned down; Napoleon may be the sort of impetus needed to eliminate them much earlier.

That's by tricking them and trying to gather them all up in one occassion and then slaughter them.

 

[archaeogeek]

That's by tricking them and trying to gather them all up in one occassion and then slaughter them.

Perfectly within the ropes of a Bonapart Pasha; how do you think he made his name as a half-pay demobilized general stuck in Paris ç

Also, I'm not sure he worshipped himself so much as power. On the other hand one is not removed from the other.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

I wonder if a Bonapart Pasha is power-hungry enough to do the same what Mohammed Ali did and declare himself Wali of Egypt, perhaps forming an Islamic Napoleonic Empire. Hey, a man can dream.