Most forgotten military campaigns

Torqumada said:
Weapon M, I didn't know you were a Hilary and Halie Duff fan. Aren't they a little young for you. ;) :p Why not go with the Olsen twins instead? At least they are legal.

Torqumada


My four-year old daughter is a huge Hilary fan ("W"izzie Maguire and all that), thus I have been exposed to anything Hilary. So when she asks me to "pway the video with Wizzie and her sistah", gee, who am I to argue with my princess?
 
Michael said:
I only know of that bathurst war from your site, and i am doing history in school... go public education!!! :(


Yeah, it's sad isn't. Basically there were small scale wars all over Australia, but most have been long forgotten. I'd dare say more people know about the Maori Wars than even the Bathurst War. :(
 
WWI - Salonika, Caucasus, Rumania, most of the Eastern Front.

Does anyone know it was the Salonika front that led to the Ottomans seeking an armistice? Or that they were in occupation of Baku at the time? Or that Ottoman units participated in the campaigns in Galicia and Rumania?
 
The American Civil War Seems to be a General Lee against...... with a little of the Mississippi getting a honorable Mention. Unless You are a History Buff, the War in Texas & Arizona, Is never mentioned.

The American Revolutionary War is the Same, with whole Thearater of Battle getting no more than one line mentions.

?Do You think that Roman legionares sat around discussing this subject,? ie Caeser get all the Glory, and no one remembers.............
 
Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
WWI - Salonika, Caucasus, Rumania, most of the Eastern Front.

Does anyone know it was the Salonika front that led to the Ottomans seeking an armistice? Or that they were in occupation of Baku at the time? Or that Ottoman units participated in the campaigns in Galicia and Rumania?

From what I understand, most actions of the Salonika front were against Bulgaria in 1918. Before that, the Salonika army was somewhat quiet, although a few engagements did take place prior to 1918. The main reason for the quiet at Salonika was that the Allies didn't know which side Greece might favour until late in the war.

The Ottomans sought an armistice after the battle of Megiddo where their army was smashed to pieces. So the Salonika army had nothing really to do with the Ottomans surrender.

As for Ottoman units operating against Galicia & Rumania - none that I'm aware of (other than operations of the two German ships operating under the Ottoman flag).
 
DMA said:
From what I understand, most actions of the Salonika front were against Bulgaria in 1918. Before that, the Salonika army was somewhat quiet, although a few engagements did take place prior to 1918. The main reason for the quiet at Salonika was that the Allies didn't know which side Greece might favour until late in the war.

The Ottomans sought an armistice after the battle of Megiddo where their army was smashed to pieces. So the Salonika army had nothing really to do with the Ottomans surrender.

As for Ottoman units operating against Galicia & Rumania - none that I'm aware of (other than operations of the two German ships operating under the Ottoman flag).

My understanding is that there were some Turkish units serving with German and (mostly) Austrian forces during the period from 1916-18. There were certainly Austrian forces serving with Turkish forces, including some in the Middle East. This is not very well known. That the Ottoman armies had a bit of German help is, of course, better known.

Salonika was fairly active from 1916 on. Mostly against the Bulgarians, but also against Turks and Austrians. The Allied force was similarly polyglot. They had British, French, Greeks, Serb refugees, and even some Russians.
 
Aedh Rua said:
My understanding is that there were some Turkish units serving with German and (mostly) Austrian forces during the period from 1916-18. There were certainly Austrian forces serving with Turkish forces, including some in the Middle East. This is not very well known. That the Ottoman armies had a bit of German help is, of course, better known.

Salonika was fairly active from 1916 on. Mostly against the Bulgarians, but also against Turks and Austrians. The Allied force was similarly polyglot. They had British, French, Greeks, Serb refugees, and even some Russians.

Oh don't overly doubt what you're saying about the Turkish units, but I thought that the Salonika army pretty well kept within the so-called "birdcage" until 1918, when it began large scale opperations against Bulgaria, which led to Bulgaria's surrender. BTW it was 200 000 Serb soldiers, so I hardly call them "refugees", but I get your point.
 
WWII: Iraq, Iran, Madagascar

WWI: The entire 1914 A-H vs Russian SW Front campaign, also Revigny, the 1915 Argonne offensive, naval Battle of Riga and Operation Albion.
 
DMA said:
From what I understand, most actions of the Salonika front were against Bulgaria in 1918. Before that, the Salonika army was somewhat quiet, although a few engagements did take place prior to 1918. The main reason for the quiet at Salonika was that the Allies didn't know which side Greece might favour until late in the war.

The Ottomans sought an armistice after the battle of Megiddo where their army was smashed to pieces. So the Salonika army had nothing really to do with the Ottomans surrender.

As for Ottoman units operating against Galicia & Rumania - none that I'm aware of (other than operations of the two German ships operating under the Ottoman flag).

That's not true. The battle of Megiddo accounted for an insignificant portion of Ottoman fighting strength and resulted in the loss of territory that was not considered vital or even very important. What followed was actually Mustafa Kemal's most brilliant campaign, a fighting retreat into Anatolia to preserve as much of the Turkish part of the Syrian army as possible to defend Anatolia.

It was the Bulgarian collapse due to the Salonika front that prompted the Ottomans to seek an armistice - they were not afraid of a British invasion of Anatolia from Syria - they expected to win. But the collapse of Bulgaria left Istanbul indefensible, as there were no strategic reserves availalble to mount a defense.

As far as Galicia and Rumania are concerned, the Ottomans sent three divisions to join Mackensen's invading army (Rumania), and two divisions to shore up the Austro-Hungarians after the Brusilov offensive - Falkenhayn called them "unusually useful". In addition, two divisions were sent to the CP lines at Salonika.
 
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Aedh Rua said:
My understanding is that there were some Turkish units serving with German and (mostly) Austrian forces during the period from 1916-18. There were certainly Austrian forces serving with Turkish forces, including some in the Middle East. This is not very well known. That the Ottoman armies had a bit of German help is, of course, better known.

Salonika was fairly active from 1916 on. Mostly against the Bulgarians, but also against Turks and Austrians. The Allied force was similarly polyglot. They had British, French, Greeks, Serb refugees, and even some Russians.

IIRC, the Austrian military mission to the Ottomans was to train troops in mountain warfare.
 
Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
That's not true. The battle of Megiddo accounted for an insignificant portion of Ottoman fighting strength and resulted in the loss of territory that was not considered vital or even very important. What followed was actually Mustafa Kemal's most brilliant campaign, a fighting retreat into Anatolia to preserve as much of the Turkish part of the Syrian army as possible to defend Anatolia.

It was the Bulgarian collapse due to the Salonika front that prompted the Ottomans to seek an armistice - they were not afraid of a British invasion of Anatolia from Syria - they expected to win. But the collapse of Bulgaria left Istanbul indefensible, as there were no strategic reserves availalble to mount a defense.

As far as Galicia and Rumania are concerned, the Ottomans sent three divisions to join Mackensen's invading army (Rumania), and two divisions to shore up the Austro-Hungarians after the Brusilov offensive - Falkenhayn called them "unusually useful". In addition, two divisions were sent to the CP lines at Salonika.

Some of this I can agree with, especially in regards to Ottoman troop deployments to Galicia, Rumania & the Salonika front, but I can't at all go along with what you've said about the Megiddo campaign. Megiddo is the final battle in a series of defeats for the Ottomans which had pushed them back from, at one point, threatening the Suez Canal. Megiddo, however, was the last straw. And with the Allied breakthrough, the Turkish army group, including the Austro-German "Asia Corps", disintegrated in the process.

Now the Ottoman Order of Battle is as following:

Fourth Army

3rd Cav Division,
II Corps,
VIII Corps.

Seventh Army

III Corps
XX Corps

Eighth Army

46 Div
XXII Corps

Asia Korps

16th Div
19th Div

Now, although on paper this looks impressive, by the time of Megiddo on 19 September, this "army group" had be reduced, like everyone's armies had by 1918, to about 40 000 troops. But that doesn't mean the Allies had a huge superiority in numbers. Furthermore, it doesn't, by the standards of the region, make it a minor engagement.

But the important aspect to Megiddo is, whilst leaving earlier campaigns aside, the Allies were able to smash their way through the Ottoman defences in less than a day. The defence then turned into a rout which never stopped. Only the Asia Korps slowed the Allied advance & that wasn't for long. In fact by 21 September Seventh Army more or less ceased to exist (more about that later).

More interesting is how fast various locations were taken indicating the rout for what it was. Damascus was taken on 1 October. Beirut was taken a week later. Tripoli was taken on 13 October. But the Allied advance didn't stop there. On 26 October, the Allies had advanced as far north as Aleppo. The only thing the Ottoman's could do was Mustafa Kemal's refusal to surrender. Five days later, with the situtation completely hopeless, an armistice was, however, granted to the Ottoman's on 30/31 October.

Now, in 1 period of about 5 weeks, the Allies were able to destroy an entire army group, take thousands of prisoners & push the Ottoman's back a distance of some 290 miles, & there was nothing to stop the Allies continuing on into Turkey. Now you mention Mustafa great defence. I don't know how he could offer a "brilliant" defence, as you claim, when his command (Seventh Army) was more or less destroyed two days after the battle began.

Yet as for the reason why the Ottoman's surrendered is, I admit, varied & indeed the defeat of Bulgaria was of deep concern. But if the annihilation of their armed forces in Palistine & Syria isn't a good reason to surrender, with no chance of stopping an Allied invasion of Turkey from Syria, well we must just have to agree to disagree.
 
The most forgotten in World War II in my opinion gotta be the 442nd Regiment. Little is ever written about them in WWII history books except for a sentence or two saying that they are an all Japanese American fighting unit in Europe and the most decorated US regiment in World War II. Funny how they are the most decorated and yet few specific reference books are written about them, no Spielberg movies, no HBO specials. Why? Oh yeah, that's right, they're not White.
 
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