Most Evil AH Culture?

Admiral Canaris

Banned
Which AH culture is the most evil one? Post your ideas, why you think so and from which AH they are. When we have enough, we might have a poll.

I for one thinks that Stirling will take the top, what with Draka, PL Cannibal Satanist Russians and what have you...
 

David bar Elias

Admiral Canaris said:
Which AH culture is the most evil one? Post your ideas, why you think so and from which AH they are. When we have enough, we might have a poll.

I for one thinks that Stirling will take the top, what with Draka, PL Cannibal Satanist Russians and what have you...
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The Nazi-ruled America from Eric Norden's The Ultimate Solution is pretty depraved, even for a Nazis-win scenario. The (total) genocide of the Jews is openly celebrated, blacks and Slavs are used as slave labor, and children are enthusiastically encouraged to be sadistic and cruel.

Any Nazis-win scenario in general (The Man in the High Castle, Fatherland, In the Presence of Mine Enemies, ect.) features a society with a brutally evil core to it.

For other evil ATL states, there's also the USSR mentioned in The Iron Dream, Andrei Chikatilo's USSR from For All Time, the desperate post-apocalyptic USA from The Land Leviathan (where blacks have been re-enslaved), and Jake Featherston's CSA in TL-191.
 
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Admiral Canaris

Banned
David bar Elias said:
The Nazi-ruled America from Eric Norden's The Ultimate Solution is pretty depraved, even for a Nazis-win scenario. The (total) genocide of the Jews is openly celebrated, blacks and Slavs are used as slave labor, and children are enthusiastically encouraged to be sadistic and cruel.
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That one's just fucked up; not that I ever read it, just the wiki article, but I suppose it does set some record. Still, it doesn't feel like "real" AH to me; apart from the anti-Semitism, most of it has absolutely nothing to do with historical Nazism. The way I got it, the author was a left-winger who hated his country over Vietnam and used the book to badmouth it.

As for the others, Nazi victory scenarios are typically gruesome, but I personally think most don't match Draka for sheer evilness. I probably wouldn't include the CSA on most lists; yes, they have their HT analogue of the Holocaust, but the majority culture is not genocidally depraved, just the SS/whatever.
 

Wolf

Most defiantly the Draka, a whole society that doesn't just disagree with American views, but completely reject them. That little sample of Drieser's writing is pretty chilling. His whole Anti-America thesis.

Though PL's Satanic Russians pretty bad.
 

Sean Mulligan

Banned
David bar Elias said:
For other evil ATL states, there's also the USSR mentioned in The Iron Dream, Andrei Chikatilo's USSR from For All Time, the desperate post-apocalyptic USA from The Land Leviathan (where blacks have been re-enslaved), and Jake Featherston's CSA in TL-191.
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Why would the Soviet Union exterminate the Jews? Plenty of people in the Soviet government such as Kaganovich and Litvinov were Jewish and anti-semitism was outlawed.
 

David bar Elias

Sean Mulligan said:
Why would the Soviet Union exterminate the Jews? Plenty of people in the Soviet government such as Kaganovich and Litvinov were Jewish and anti-semitism was outlawed.
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I think it was meant to underscore the dystopian nature of the world where The Iron Dream was written: even with no Nazi Germany, a genocidal anti-Semitic purge occurs...

As for other evil ATL states, For All Time has several that would fit that category: Emperor Jean-Bedel Bokassa's France, Idi Amin's East African Federation, and Greater (Apartheid) South Africa...
 

Kevin Renner

Draka are bad enough. But if we include future ones the Saurons have to be one of the top three. Refering to non-Sauron humans as cattle
 

Count Dearborn

The Founding World of GOD, Inc., in the late Jack L. Chalker's series of the same name. They weren't above destroying client worlds that they saw as threats.
 
Mr_ Bondoc

Mr_ Bondoc

That is all child's play compared to the "Sons of Adam" Movement launched against the female half of humanity in "The Srewfly Solution" by James Tiptree Jr. in 1977. In the story, what is truly frightening is that the men, due to alien influence, gain a sexual thrill from the murder of women. One scene describes hand bags being made out of the flesh of women. For more information check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Screwfly_Solution
 

RealityBYTES

As others in this thread have noted, I believe the Draka are a fairly vile bunch of people — not only do they conquer, they also convert (through genetic means) the survivors, should there be any, into their worshipers.

RealityBYTES
 

Admiral Canaris

Banned
Count Dearborn said:
The Founding World of GOD, Inc., in the late Jack L. Chalker's series of the same name. They weren't above destroying client worlds that they saw as threats.
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Destroying worlds isn't too evil; the Empire in SW does that, and they're mostly just generic authoritarians. Enslaving and humiliating populations forever is worse.
 

Caractacus

There isnt a hybrid evil Aztec/Confederate/Nazi/Draka/evil Aliens culture in any current AH, to my knowlege, but if there was it would certainly top the list.
 

hopper2cool

I would have to say 1984. The Draka suck but at least when you are "Under the Yoke" and do what they want they take care of you. Even if you commit a crime and they torture and eventually kill you it's for a reason.
In Oceania they torture you and don't even care what you know. They torture you into believing 2+2=5 just because they want to break you.
What is almost worse is the 1984 world would also be annoying because you wouldn't know what is going on. Even the worst real world dictatorship has to have some basis for it's propaganda. Winston Smith doesn't even know whether Big Brother controls just England, or a quarter of the world, or even the entire world.
Also the Draka and most other fictional evil powers at least have a goal for their power. They want to conquer the world, galaxy, or whatever. Big Brother just wants the power. There is no vague perfect future in 1984 just MiniLuv keeping it's boot on the people's throat.
 

Admiral Canaris

Banned
Isn't that pretty Draka: They just want power? And as an illiterate serf who only hears what the Mistress chooses to tell you, will you really be more informed than an IngSoc/BBC client?
 

hopper2cool

Admiral Canaris said:
Isn't that pretty Draka: They just want power? And as an illiterate serf who only hears what the Mistress chooses to tell you, will you really be more informed than an IngSoc/BBC client?
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I am going to split this out into the two separate points.
First the Draka wanted to conquer the Earth so they could move their Spartan/Nazis butt's into space. Also they believed that if the didn't conquer the Alliance that the Alliance would kill of all the Draka. Remember the Draka creed of "if you aint Draka you aint shit." Which is why the Draka were willing to blow up the Earth if they lost the Final War.
As far as propaganda goes while the poorest serf working in gold mine might not know very much about America the 1984 world is a lot different. Winston Smith was a mid level beaurocrat not a prole. He was in the top 10% of the total population and wasn't sure that how big Oceania was.
Also to be fair we the readers know a good amount about the Draka and the world around them. In 1984 we don't know. I find the alliances between first Eurasia and then Eastasia to be suspicious. Maybe I am forgetting but did Eurasia and Eastasia ever join up together to attack Oceania? How much did Big Brother control? Was the whole thing just some odd scam to keep people poor? Plus the blowtorch and rat thing just scares the hell out of me.
 
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