Mosley, Mussolini and the Kaiser vs. Stalin and the French

POD: The U.S. does not enter the Great European War due to a more isolationist policy. The Lusithania is not sunk.

Summer 1918
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The 1918 German spring offensive takes Paris, but cannot advance much further. Fierce fighting in the trenches reap millions and millions of lives, as the front line is more or less frozen during the next six months.

Autumn 1918
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British, French, and German troop morale plummets. No one can launch a major offensive as the thousands of soldiers desert and/or refuse to advance.

December 1918
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The British and French populations demand an end to the war now. They are not willing to send more of their sons, brothers and fathers into certain death. German citizens are, of course, also demonstrating for peace. A seize fire is signed after countless riots and with armies deserting one by one.

January 1919 Treaty of Rotterdam; the end of “The Great European War”
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All warring sides agree on the following terms:
- No reparations paid by anyone.
- June 1914 borders restored in the west.
- The Allies keep Germany's overseas colonies.
- Germany absorbs the German speaking parts of Austria-Hungary.
- Poland becomes an independent nation. It does not include any territory populated by ethnic Germans.
- The Baltic States, Ireland, Ukraine, Belarus, and Finland become independent nations.
- Czech Republic and Slovak Republic become independent nations.
- Hungary becomes an independent nation.
- The republic of Yugoslavia is formed, consisting of Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia, Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina.

1919 - 1930 Europe in turmoil.
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The entire European population is fed up with the leaders, and systems of government, that lead them into the slaughter of WWI.

Vive le revolution!
Growing turmoil in Germany, Britain and France, although the war has ended. In France communists and syndicalists organise strikes and protests which halter the industrial growth and the reconstruction of the country. These riots are met with violence and the revolution begins… again. 1923 sees the creation of the communist Republic of France which joins the Comintern almost immediately. The proletarian tricolour is raised on top of the Eiffel tower. As a response, the colonies demand independence. The leaders in Paris agree on this, as the imperialistic pigs have been executed. The socialist federation of western Africa is created and join France and the USSR, as does Madagascar and the Marxist republic of Djibouti. The union of Indochina, however, experiences ethnic turbulence and breaks up into three different nations; Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos. All three of them are governed by militaristic juntas. The French socialist commonwealth is created consisting of France, SFWA, Madagascar and Djibouti.




“Let us make Britain great once more” and the formation of the Rome-London alliance.
Britain hangs together, but experiences plenty of government changes. By 1925, the fascist new labour party, spearheaded by Oswald Mosley comes to power. The 1925 election campaign goes down in history because of the NLP’s “Let Britannia rule again!”-campaign. Plenty of communists flee to France and the newly created nation of Ireland. In Italy, Mussolini comes to power in the early years of the 1920’s, as the Italian population find themselves betrayed and overlooked by the dishonest treaty of Rotterdam. Mosley and Mussolini befriend each other and form the Rome-London alliance, in order to spread the ideology of fascism, if necessary through the use of armed force.

Fascism in this TL is more of a pure political ideology as Mosley and the New Labour party publish their own Mein Kampf in 1925, called, “the struggle of nations”.


The death of the Kaiser
in 1927, during a vacation away from the rioting masses of the major German cities, Kaiser Wilhelm II is assassinated by a communist organisation called the “rote armée division”, or the “RAD”. After a rocky six months of political turmoil as a result to this, Germany becomes a constitution monarchy with Wilhelm III as a figurehead Kaiser. By 1930 Germany is stable, with the Rexist party of Germany in governmental control. Rexism, in TTL, is created as a response to the public complaints in Germany during the 1920s by christian patrios wanting to preserve the power of the kaiser, and is like a light version of OTL fascism. Rexist Germany join the Rome-London alliance in 1929, creating the Rome-Berlin-London axis.



Lenin and the reds are a bit more successful then what happened historically. Taking advantage of the turmoil in Germany, Belarus and Ukraine are invaded and annexed, however, with some German assistance; the Baltic States and Poland manage to resist being absorbed into the Soviet Union. They remain independent nations, closely aligned with Germany.


1929 - 1935 Great Depression.
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The great depression becomes the kiss of death for British democracy. Blaming the inflation on Jewish capitalists as well as communists and “the Celts” (meaning Irish, Welsh and Scottish people) immigrants “stealing the jobs of the Anglo-Saxons”, Mosley and the new labour party takes full control of the empire. The Anglo-Saxon Guard, similar to the SA in OTL is formed, consisting of mainly working class thugs, fond of violence. There are plenty of them as the great depression leads to massive unemployment.

The US is hit harder then in OTL by the great depression. Even here, political turmoil sets the cities on fire, and poisons the countryside. The government in Washington is no longer to be trusted, the communists says, as do the Fascists.


1936 Spanish Civil War begins.
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- France, allied with the Soviet Union, supports the communist (er, Republican) government. Germany and Britain support General Franco's forces.
- Italy does not care who wins in Spain. While everyone else is preoccupied they seize Trieste, Albania, and Ethiopia.
- Japan seizes Manchuria, and considers seizing the banana republics of former French Indochina.

1939 WWII
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After fighting each other by proxy for 3 years (in Spain), the British-German alliance comes to blows directly with the French-Russian alliance. Some say a border incident sparked it off. Others say it was intentional.

- Britain, Italy and Germany are allies.
- France and the Soviet Union are allies. Both are communist.
- The Baltic states and Poland are German Allies. They are all terrified of Stalin's Soviet Union, but none of them share the Rexist ideology (not officially anyways).
- Japan is doing it's own thing in the Pacific while Europe is preoccupied.
- U.S. has it's historical government.

November 1939 - The fuse is lit
Finnish government officials, within the German sphere of influence, frightened of Stalins expansionistic policies, ally with the British and Germany, in the nick of time. Only days after the deals are signed, the finnish winter war begins and ends in total soviet victory.

Britain, the USSR, Germany and France begin moblilizing troops and the world holds its breath. The Americans, still under the impression that Europe does'nt even want them around (like the last time) goes even more isolationistic than in OTL.

The French seizes to send volunteers and materiel and launches an invasion of Spain.

1940 - Battles in the north
Stalin's officials see the strategic importance of controlling the Baltic and the northern sea, and contiues to push west, into Norway and Sweden. Germany in turn, invade and annex Denmark. The British take control of Iceland and Greenland. By May '40 the stage is set for fighting in northern Europe...

France, protected by the canal and a maginot-like line in the east invade Spain and manage to capture Madrid, which falls on April 25th, 1940. Pockets of nationalists, royalists and partisans remain, however, mainly in the south where they are supplied by the british in Gibraltar. By fall the Socialist Republic of Spain is a part of the commintern, but the government is weak and the domestic turmoil is enormous.


What next? What does Germany-Britain do, exept for the annexation of Denmark? What will happen to eastern Europe and the balkans? A map anyone? Japan? Also, if anything of the above seems to implausible, please notify me. Also, i was wondering if the Soviet intelligence could have any luck trying to fuel the Irish proletariat (which, if I'm not mistaken, was quite alot of people at this time) and their hatred against the british, with the goal being to create a communist state on the British Isles.
 
Don't see why a victorious Germany would create a Poland, unless it was a complete puppet state. I certainly don't know why the Austro-Hungarian Empire would be dismantled, I doubt the Austrians would permit it. Without the United States, or even with the Allies in such a poor position, I strongly doubt the various OTL successor states to the AH Empire would be permitted.

The ocean liner's name is Lusitania.
 
David S Poepoe said:
Don't see why a victorious Germany would create a Poland, unless it was a complete puppet state. I certainly don't know why the Austro-Hungarian Empire would be dismantled, I doubt the Austrians would permit it. Without the United States, or even with the Allies in such a poor position, I strongly doubt the various OTL successor states to the AH Empire would be permitted.

The ocean liner's name is Lusitania.
What he said.
Unless the Russians take Poland away from Germany/Austria. Maybe a Balkan Federation? You need a Balkan Federation to survive a Russia that does not have a civil war.
Of course, if the Austrians secede from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, then Germany could dump their Baltic and Polish population on them. Maybe we will butterfly Finland in, or Leningrad as a white Russian refuge? Germany had the Ukrainian speaking half of the Ukraine, the Crimea, and Belarussia. If they all wind up in MittleEuropa they can take care of the Russians by themselves.
Turkey gets the 'stans? Japan gets the northern part of Sakhalin and wisely stops there?
 
wkwillis said:
What he said.
Unless the Russians take Poland away from Germany/Austria. Maybe a Balkan Federation? You need a Balkan Federation to survive a Russia that does not have a civil war.
Of course, if the Austrians secede from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, then Germany could dump their Baltic and Polish population on them. Maybe we will butterfly Finland in, or Leningrad as a white Russian refuge? Germany had the Ukrainian speaking half of the Ukraine, the Crimea, and Belarussia. If they all wind up in MittleEuropa they can take care of the Russians by themselves.
Turkey gets the 'stans? Japan gets the northern part of Sakhalin and wisely stops there?
Wait, what? The AUSTRIANS are seceding now? :confused: Will next England secede from the UK? Will Paris leave France? Will Castile secede from Spain? Shall the Turks break from the Ottomans? (alright, I hope you get the point)
I would think that the Germans have far more interests in propping up a Austria-Hungary dominated by Germans (the Austrian Germans) than a whole bunch of successor states just as likely to war with each other (Slavonia is rightfully Croatian! No, it is Serbian! You are all wrong, it belongs to Hungary!) than to ally with Germany in case of another war.
 
Imajin said:
Wait, what? The AUSTRIANS are seceding now? :confused: Will next England secede from the UK? Will Paris leave France? Will Castile secede from Spain? Shall the Turks break from the Ottomans? (alright, I hope you get the point)
I would think that the Germans have far more interests in propping up a Austria-Hungary dominated by Germans (the Austrian Germans) than a whole bunch of successor states just as likely to war with each other (Slavonia is rightfully Croatian! No, it is Serbian! You are all wrong, it belongs to Hungary!) than to ally with Germany in case of another war.
The precedent is when Russia dumped the old Union. It got tired of subsidizing them.
 
wkwillis said:
The precedent is when Russia dumped the old Union. It got tired of subsidizing them.
The Austrian half of the Empire was much better off than say, Central Asia (or the Hungarian half, but Hungary was almost entirely autonomous and I believe paid for itself)... And the circumstances are completely different, and even so, "getting tired of subsidizing" is the reason the USSR collapsed now? :confused: So why hasn't Russia collapsed further, after all I'm sure they're tired of paying for Kaliningrad, or the Russian Far East...
 
Imajin said:
The Austrian half of the Empire was much better off than say, Central Asia (or the Hungarian half, but Hungary was almost entirely autonomous and I believe paid for itself)... And the circumstances are completely different, and even so, "getting tired of subsidizing" is the reason the USSR collapsed now? :confused: So why hasn't Russia collapsed further, after all I'm sure they're tired of paying for Kaliningrad, or the Russian Far East...
They are subsidising Russians, not other nationalities.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
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Perhaps I missed it, but...

If the Germans have advanced to Paris, the BEF & the French Army are at the point of revolt, and British & French home front's are at least as bad as Germany's why would the Germans withdraw to their 1914 borders, give up their colonies, and watch their main ally get destroyed? Seems that they have effectively reached their pre-war goals regarding France.

Given the political climate of the era, why does a Red France let reactionary forces take over their SE Asia colonies.

How (why) is the depression much worse in the US? If it is so bad in America that you have rioting in the streets, how do things resolve by 1940 so FDR is president and the rest of the US political landscape is unchanged?

:confused:
 
Hungary itself had a large monarchist element. Kaiser Karl who took the throne after Franz Josef tried to reclaim the throne of Hungary after the war and was defeated. In addition Austria was the most important nation in Europe to the Germans at that time. Italy defected the alliance, but Austria remained true. Austria was important for two reasons as an ally. Militarily for it's Armies that could be supplement German forces in an armed conflict, and it's naval base at Pola. Pola gave the Germans acess to a base in the med irregardless of the Italians. It is more likely Germany would have given what ever military aid necessary to keep Austria-Hungary afloat or be politically totally isolated.
 
I agree such a scenario is unlikely at best.

What could be done to maybe alter it?

Germany pulls back to its 1914 borders in the west and is allowed to keep some of its territories in the east these include Baltic States Poland parts of belarussia and parts of the Ukraine.

Because of the general chaos and turmoil and to not further destabilize the situation these regions are given some autonomy but official become parts of the Reich.

German colonies in Asia are sold to Japan
German colonies in western hem are sold to USA
And in Africa to both France and Brittan

All of these are sold for a reasonable prize that is not a loss of face for either party but de facto strips Germany from its colonies.

Austria Hungary slowly but surely continues there disintegration process.
After a few years the Germanic Austrians can no longer handle it them self and stand for a decision either they ask the Germans for help or allow there empire to break up, they decide to do the first, German troops cross the border(s) and restore order.

The Austrian empire and the German empire merge into 1 big empire with a constitution monarchy (pick your favorite emperor one he's only a figurehead so doesn't really matter)

The nationalistic/revolutionary elements in the Balkan nations are forced in the under ground and most of them go red.
 
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