Modern Ottoman Empire

Kabraloth · Oct 21, 2006

Unless I am very wrong, there were more occupation zones, or were supposed to be - including an Italian one.

Nicole · Oct 21, 2006

Kabraloth said:
Unless I am very wrong, there were more occupation zones, or were supposed to be - including an Italian one.

I know Italy wanted an occupation zone in Cilicia, but I didn't think it had got into the Treaty of Sevres, only the Treaty of London... though I might be wrong there.

Thande · Oct 21, 2006

That Sevres map does show an Italian possession, but it's just that peninsula.

Keenir · Oct 21, 2006

I saw the Sevres map several years ago....and the zones were all along the coasts. from memory:

Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy · Oct 21, 2006

Imajin said:
I know Italy wanted an occupation zone in Cilicia, but I didn't think it had got into the Treaty of Sevres, only the Treaty of London... though I might be wrong there.

Cilicia was a French sphere of influence, the Italian one was in the south-west, facing the Dodecanese.

Thande said:
That Sevres map does show an Italian possession, but it's just that peninsula.

Actually, Castellorizzo is an island.

Wasn't part of the coast east of Trebizond reserved for Georgia? That's how I've seen it on some maps. I think the area is called Lazistan.

Leo Caesius · Oct 21, 2006

VoCSe said:
Wasn't part of the coast east of Trebizond reserved for Georgia? That's how I've seen it on some maps. I think the area is called Lazistan.

Yes, the Laz are Muslims who speak a Kartvelian language (the area has produced a few famous singers lately, like Kâzım Koyuncu), just as the Hemşinli are Muslims who speak a dialect of Armenian.

Here's a more accurate map of the proposed partition of Turkey under the Sèvres treaty:

Thande · Oct 21, 2006

Well those maps depict a situation that IS rather harsh towards the Turks.

However even the blank area on Leo's map is still several hundred times the size of Cornwall

(yes, I know I'm being annoyingly literal)

Thande · Oct 21, 2006

BTW, Leo, what's the OTL modern Cypriot division doing on that 1920s map?

They weren't considering a partition then were they?

Leo Caesius · Oct 21, 2006

Thande said:
However even the blank area on Leo's map is still several hundred times the size of Cornwall (yes, I know I'm being annoyingly literal)

That can't be right, I've seen maps of an independent Cornwall on this very forum and it was easily that size.

Leo Caesius · Oct 21, 2006

Thande said:
BTW, Leo, what's the OTL modern Cypriot division doing on that 1920s map? They weren't considering a partition then were they?

No, they were not. That's an anachronism, but then again so are the modern borders of Turkey. I think that the people who designed this map are trying to make some kind of point (I got it from a website entitled "Non à la Turquie en Europe." My French is somewhat rusty, but I'm fairly confident that Non à la Turquie translates as "Turkish-style Nun," which sounds like a very sinister recipe indeed).

Thande · Oct 21, 2006

Leo Caesius said:
That can't be right, I've seen maps of an independent Cornwall on this very forum and it was easily that size.

I know you're joking but just to underline my point for everyone:

This Euratlas map of 700 AD basically shows Cornwall
(well, Dumnonia) at its absolute maximum bounds OTL. Note size relation to Anatolia.

Thande · Oct 21, 2006

Leo Caesius said:
No, they were not. That's an anachronism, but then again so are the modern borders of Turkey. I think that the people who designed this map are trying to make some kind of point (I got it from a website entitled "Non à la Turquie en Europe." My French is somewhat rusty, but I'm fairly confident that Non à la Turquie translates as "Turkish-style Nun," which sounds like a very sinister recipe indeed).

Those anticlerical Frenchies, eh?

Yes, I do know what it actually means.

Kabraloth · Oct 21, 2006

Leo to the rescue! Thank you.

Keenir · Oct 21, 2006

I thought somebody (Russia?) got the north coast.

(and even if nobody tries to take it, the Pontus Greeks might be encouraged to go independent)

Leo Caesius said:
Here's a more accurate map of the proposed partition of Turkey under the Sèvres treaty:

Keenir · Oct 21, 2006

Thande said:
I know you're joking but just to underline my point for everyone:

This Euratlas map of 700 AD basically shows Cornwall
(well, Dumnonia) at its absolute maximum bounds OTL. Note size relation to Anatolia.

well it looked tiny on the map!

Nicole · Oct 21, 2006

Aren't the Pontic Greeks actually in Sevres Armenia? I thought they were centered around Trebizond.

Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy · Oct 21, 2006

Keenir said:
I thought somebody (Russia?) got the north coast.

This is Soviet Russia. They didn't ask for anything from Turkey, and even if they had the West wasn't going to give it to them.

Oddball · Nov 26, 2006

Leo Caesius said:
No, they were not. That's an anachronism, but then again so are the modern borders of Turkey. I think that the people who designed this map are trying to make some kind of point (I got it from a website entitled "Non à la Turquie en Europe." My French is somewhat rusty, but I'm fairly confident that Non à la Turquie translates as "Turkish-style Nun," which sounds like a very sinister recipe indeed).

@Leo

With a POD post Napoleonic and without the European territories, would the Empire stand a chance when the time of nationalism kicks in?

A moderate muslim (even better "secular muslim"), Turkic-Arabic federation perhaps? Or is this pipedreams?

Keenir · Nov 26, 2006

Oddball said:
@Leo

With a POD post Napoleonic and without the European territories, would the Empire stand a chance when the time of nationalism kicks in?

A moderate muslim (even better "secular muslim"), Turkic-Arabic federation perhaps? Or is this pipedreams?

a Turkish-Kurdish and/or a Turkish-Armenian state, very likely...but the more groups that one tries to keep in the Empire, the greater the odds of something going wrong.

Oddball · Nov 26, 2006

I must admit that I had the Middle East included also...