Mistakes Louis xvi cause French revolution?

[Alcsentre Calanice]

They weren’t mindless fanatics but power hungry fools.

Do I really to argue with you about the legitimacy of Liberty, Equality, and Constitutional Government?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Article I – Men are born and remain free and equal in rights. Social distinctions can be founded only on the common good.

Article VI – The law is the expression of the general will. All the citizens have the right of contributing personally or through their representatives to its formation. It must be the same for all, either that it protects, or that it punishes. All the citizens, being equal in its eyes, are equally admissible to all public dignities, places, and employments, according to their capacity and without distinction other than that of their virtues and of their talents.

These are the fundamentals of modern society and culture. No government that operates outside of these framework can be "rightful", even if that's the adjective you chose for the power of the Bourbon monarchy.

The members of the National Constituent Assembly were, just like the members of the Second Continental Congress, of the Philadelphia Convention and of the French National Convention, fathers of our current social order.

 

[isabella]

Louis-Phillippe d’Orleans the power hungry man he was “supported” the Revolution. He even voted to have his cousin King Louis XVI executed. This angered many Bourbon supporters. He eventually seized the throne from Charles X after the Bourbon restoration. He was called Phillipe-Egalite and some liberals proclaimed him King in the July monarchy. But he became autocratic and more conservative in his reign. He was deposed and the second Republic was declared. Thanks to him the French monarchists remained divided between the legitimist Bourbons and the Orleanists.

You mixed two Dukes of Orléans who were father and son: the father, Philippe Egalite, was the supporter of the revolution who voted for having his cousin the King killed and ended following him in death; the son, Louis Philippe I, was the one who had taken the crown from Charles X and become King of the French

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

Do I really to argue with you about the legitimacy of Liberty, Equality, and Constitutional Government?

Except there’s the fact that both the Constitutional Monarchy and First Republic were failiures that failed to meet the French people’s need for food and economic stability.

The members of the National Constituent Assembly were, just like the members of the Second Continental Congress, of the Philadelphia Convention and of the French National Convention, fathers of our current social order.

I wouldn’t compare them to the founding fathers of the US. For when mob violence broke out and Jacobins started mounting people’s heads on spikes, instead of condemning the Violence the Revolutionary government doubled down on it. The Foundinf Fathers in the US condemned such mob rulership and crushed the Whiskey Rebelliosn with Washington himself personally leading the army. Thus the US was more stable and legitimate as it wasn’t governed by the passions of a mob that changed as easily as the wind.

These are the fundamentals of modern society and culture. No government that operates outside of these framework can be "rightful", even if that's the adjective you chose for the po

Napoleon who was a ardent revolutionary took power and forced these reforms upon France and the rest of Europe. The First Republic gutted the military and many of it experienced officers who were nobles fled. Napoleon even only got his post as an artillery commander because his superiors were impressed with his revolutionary zeal. During France’s push against Austria, the three pronged invasion failed except for the Armu of Italy led by Napoleon. He led his army into Italy and won and forced a peace with Austria once his armies began closing in on Vienna. This saved Revolutionary France which likely would have been a footnote in history as the European powers would have crushed it and marched on Paris and reinstated the Bourbons.

Napoleon then led a coup and forced real reform which the first republic failed to do. He built up modern institutions that France uses to this day. He crowned himself Emperor of the French as France knew monarchy. It allowed him to keep the ideals of Revolution intact while being able to keep stability and order in France. Then in his wars against the coalition, he rewrote constitutions for the nations his armies occupied granting its peoples many new rights and freedoms as well. This spread nationalism and liberalism across Europe. The Second French Republic was also unstable and its government was unpopular as It hadn’t really brought change that the poor wanted. This allows Napoleon III to take power and when he took charge he also made many reforms to France. The Third Republic also wasn’t stable. It was meant to be a provisional government so that the monarchy could be restored under Henri Count of Chambord. But he was dumb and the away his Crown for a flag instead of compromising. The Third Republic wasn’t very stable either. France is on its Fifth Republic right now. My point is that it took a lot of trial and error for the idea of Republic to be realized into what we have today.

But I feel that this is too much of a tangent we’re going on so let’s just agree to disagree.

What were some financial reforms that Louis could have realistically passed to avoid the revolution and the economic collapse in France assuming he does not support the American Revolution?

 

[Johannes Parisiensis]

What were some financial reforms that Louis could have realistically passed to avoid the revolution and the economic collapse in France assuming he does not support the American Revolution?

Taxing every landed estate, whether noble, Church or commoner.

 

[Emperor Constantine]

My bad, meant Carlos III.

 

[VVD0D95]

Do I really to argue with you about the legitimacy of Liberty, Equality, and Constitutional Government?





These are the fundamentals of modern society and culture. No government that operates outside of these framework can be "rightful", even if that's the adjective you chose for the power of the Bourbon monarchy.

The members of the National Constituent Assembly were, just like the members of the Second Continental Congress, of the Philadelphia Convention and of the French National Convention, fathers of our current social order.

Except both societies showed that men weren’t all created equal and to this day no all me. Are created equal.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

Except both societies showed that men weren’t all created equal and to this day no all me. Are created equal.

Plus not all of France even supported the Revolution. There were huge rebellions in Northern France and Southern France in support of the monarchy and the old aristocracy. Even after the Second Empire was deposed, the Third Republic was meant to be temporary so that there would be monarchist restoration of the Bourbons (Henry drew in both the Orleanists and Legitimatists together thus having the monarchists present a united front). In Northwestern France the Monarchist population had to be violently suppressed by the revolutionaries. Jean-Baptiste Carrier in his Reign of Terror in Venedee mericlessly killed 4,000 civilians most of which were peasants and priests. The incident was dubbed the Nationals bathtub as the dude forced them into ships and then sunk them.

Many Royalist supporters were still alive and well in the countryside. And not all aristocrats and clergy mistreated the peasants. So perhaps instead of Louis XVI fleeing the country he have could perhaps fled to the countryside and met up with the Royal army and gathered peasant levies who were loyal to the King. The main Nucleus to the Revolutionary sentiments was Paris and central France. Even during the July Revolution there was a chance for Charles X to gather an army from the countryside to march on Paris as monarchist feeling was quite strong there. France wasn’t centralized or under a Unitarian Government, so Louis could have gradually managed to draw support to crush the revolutionaries. Maybe his supporters could rally up supporters in the Countryside by portraying the Revolutionaries as the supreme evil trying to destroy France so its enemies could then reap the spoils. Maybe the King might meet a certain disgruntled artillery commander (Bonaparte) who is angry that his career isn’t advancing. Perhaps Louis could have even met with the Spanish Bourbons and asked them for help.

 

[jb3]

The biggest single mistake had to be the flight to Varennes. The constitution of 1791 left him a good amount of power and at that point he still was favorably viewed by much of the population. He may have run into trouble with the Legislative Assembly (as he did OTL) but would have had much more of public opinion on his side.

But I think the Civil Constitution of the Clergy was too hard for him to take, when the Pope would not sanction it. Louis had finally agreed to it in the end but was deeply troubled. Pius VI’s stance put Louis in a difficult position that he finally could not tolerate. If Pius endorses the Civil Constitution I think that creates huge butterflies. Louis accepts his new situation and reigns as a constitutional monarch.

The Pope was never going to agree to the Civil Constitution - it basically gave the State the right to reorganize the Church however it wanted included having every French (male) citizen vote for Bishops and priests - even if they weren't Catholic. The Civil Constitution was so stupid a move, that within 5 years it was a dead letter and with the exception of the Rump (surviving) Constitutional Bishops, nobody associated with it (like Talleyrand) defended it and even present day believers of the Revolution in France rarely bring it up as a good thing (especially in an era of laicite). Louis was stuck when it came to the Civil Constitution.

In the end, the flight to Varennes was the deathblow but even before then the Revolution was turning radical and people like his cousin, Egalitie, were conspiring against him. Napoleon may have been right about the "grape shot". Nappy did not hesitate to move against his domestic enemies, while Louis dithered. The deaths of Mirabeau and the sidelining of Lafayette, two men who could have steered a Constitutional Monarchy in the long term was also a blow.