Minarets of Atlantis

[Shevek23]

If unification of Britain and the Netherlands exists, even if only in the weak form of a personal union, and persists for some time, I'm not sure why a fusion of the relevant companies into one would not follow. I'm not going to assert it would be a slam dunk since after all the Spanish crown took over Portugal for some decades OTL and yet the two nations, and their respective colonies, split apart again. But in this era the Iberian nations and the northern European ones are different. Precisely because, as Ridwan Asher says, Britain and the United Provinces are dominated by their capitalist classes, shouldn't a business merger be a feasible solution whereas Iberia, dominated by military aristocrats, posed a different problem of national identities being the "raison d'etre?"

It would depend on whether the merger process was conducted fairly, at a time of prosperity where the apportionment of shares to every investor in either division of the kingdom was handled smoothly. If it were done in a corrupt manner or at a time when losses were happening (so that even if the pain were distributed fairly, no one would accept it, believing their rivals should have taken more of the hit) then one or both sides could conclude they'd been screwed and start scheming to take "their" share back and take it out of the unfavorable union. But vice versa if the merger of English and Dutch companies goes smoothly, now by the same logic all investors on both sides are committed to the success of the newly augmented supercompany. Thus by your logic, RA, now the union goes deeper than a mere personal union of crowns, and the capitalists of both nations would work on some sort of Act of Union to fuse the kingdoms together irrevocably despite the fortunes of dynasties.

I think I referred to this possibility a long time ago asking whether the "Lords XVII" (that is, the directors of the Dutch East India Company) would be expanded to "Lords XXIII" (a facetious random number that hardly indicates how expanded a merged Anglo-Dutch firm would be, but you get my drift I trust) meeting in London. Or given the sensitivity of the politics of the merger, Canterbury perhaps--or alternating between Amsterdam and London, or something like that.

The smart thing to do would be to create a third company and merge both into it, to avoid the impression that one defeated the other.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

From what I see it, the more often English and the Dutch are present in the same regions around the world for the same sources of profits, the more likely they will clash. That's why i suggested that they'll need to have separate domains each. Since the English don't seem that they will spread their roots around Indian Ocean Rim ITTL, this area will remain firmly Dutch. While English will be a bigger presence in western hemisphere. In that case, a company merger wouldn't be necessary to keep the union lasting. While in the case where they're both present in Indonesia, India, etc it will more likely undermine relations and decrease the viability of the union.

 

[idumea]

The language barrier is also bigger than Castilian/Portuguese was during their union. But I'm not sure how true the idea that both India Companies are responsive to mercantile interests other than their own in the late 17th and early 18th centuries...

England's older ties to the Muslim states offer a commercial edge in the China Sea over the Dutch traders. Equally the EIC would have to recognise the VOC's primacy in other areas (beginning to erode, but safer without ruinous Anglo Dutch wars). Since in theory the ruler of the ADU could amend or rescind the Company monopoly charters, I think in public the Companies would continue to operate separately, and merge or divest some operations where profits are split.

Doubtless the Secret Committee and the Lords XVII would continue to plot against each other to try and gain advantage and favour, but this safer form of competition could drive shipping innovation even faster than the Companies managed OTL.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

On East Indies, I think politically there shouldn't be much difference from OTL up to this point. But the upheaval in Ottoman Empire means a ripple to Islamic world in general, so I'm sure whatever ideological current will spring out of the crack, we will get some sprinkle of it, much like how Wahabist fattah in early 19th century Arabia got exported into Minangkabau in Sumatra and elsewhere throughout Indian Ocean Rim and Islamic world. On the other hand, even if we'll might only see the effect to build gradually, connection with Bayouk will only going to enrich the scene of local Islamic debates. Little known to many, Indonesia was in fact one of the primary theater of debate over the compatibility between Orthodoxy and Sufism. There's a reason why the animosity between local culture and Islamic orthodoxy is particularly pronounced in this part of Islamic world. While modern Islamism is simply a crude mimicry of western anti-organicism, it's just a new feature added to an already long-running phenomenon.

Java, as I've previously mentioned, will depend on the outcome of Javanese and Chinese War(I guess this name will make better comparison with French and Indians War, since it's a war against Javanese and Chinese, not between them). Should you change it, well you have given colonialism a major setback in this front. If not, it will depend on what lies ahead, which I'll assume European affairs and the Rise of Bayouk will play the shaping part. Surely, with ADU it means no British invasion and pillage of Java. Also no Daendels and thus the planting of French revolution there. Both of which were grave disasters to indigenous infrastructure. Cultuurstelsel was only a new plant being planted on the wasteland.

Elsewhere in East Indies, Aceh will be affected by Ottoman Crisis. Even if by now their political connection isn't very relevant anymore, Aceh remains the regional center of Islamic intellectual learning and still looks to Rum as role model. Also, of all indigenous Islamic polities in East Indies, I suspect this will be the first place where Moorish republicanism will attract serious consideration. Aceh had a sidelined figure head monarchy, during which for a period was held, formally and mandatorily, by women. Ulee Balangs in local level were also effectively autonomous with nominal and necessary compliance towards monarchy, upon which its succession and roles they were very influential in determining, if with competition from the ulema. It's really the ideal gateway of the region.

 

[Thesaurus Rex]

So I was reading about the Dogon people in west Africa, and noted how their architecture kinda reminded me of Pueblo architecture, especially the cliff dwellings. Then I saw this image and I was reminded of this TL (adobe mosque in front of a cliff dwelling)

 

[Essam]

The Andalusian School
Cairo, Sublime Holding of the Egyptian Republic
Eternal Empire of the Sublime Porte
Chaaban/Mayu, 1236 A.H. (May, 1821 A.D.)

Abdelmomin sat amongst the dozens of other young adolescent boys from the mercantile Cairene families as they awaited the announcements of the names of those who would be permitted to attend the foremost “speech school” (the Arabic misnomer of the Azteco-Berber “kalmekaks,” from the classical Arabic “kalam,” or speech) in both Egypts: the Andalusian School. Founded by the recently arrived Moorish occupiers at the establishment of the Egyptian Republic following the Ottoman Revolution and the ascension of the Giray dynasty on the caliphal throne of the Eternal Empire, the Andalusian School was the gatekeeper of those who would enter into the Republic’s administration, forming the nouveau riche “republican pashas” class. For Cairene merchants, it was the only upward social mobility provided them, as the Mamelouk landowning class and the scholars of Al Azhar dominated the chambers of the Diwan, the legislative chamber installed following the Republic’s establishment. While the pashas and sheikhs dominated the upper strata of society, it was the republican bureaucracy installed by the Moors whom the latter relied upon to govern the newfound republic and balance against the monarchical and traditionalist tendencies of the Mamelouk landowners. From these “republican pashas” trained at the Andalusian School came the administrators of the provinces; the commanding mulazims, yuzbashis, saghs, bimbashis, qaimaqams, and amiralays of the republic’s armies; the teachers in the “youth schools” and “speech schools” of the Atlantean traditions; and the tax collectors.

The elderly Moorish ustadh-general, the headmaster, appeared with his signature jaguar-skin sache over his robes, marking not only his Moorish status (and specifically Atlantean origins) but also his importance, and wealth. In the early years of the republic’s establishment, many well to-do Egyptians had began to imitate the fashion of the new rulers, however Bayouk banned the export of the precious jaguar pelts from the New World and forbade any non-Moors from donning them in the Egyptian Republic, when supplies became drastically low in the New World.

“In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful, prayers and peace be upon our prophet the Beloved of God and upon his progeny and all his righteous followers; peace and perseverance of God be upon the Sultan-Emperor the Most Glorious, Commander of the Faithful and Successor of the Prophet of the Lord of the Universe, Sovereign of the Giray Dynasty and Rightful and Sole Holder of the Sublime Republic…” the old man took a deep breath and finished the formalities of the opening ceremony, “the peace of God and gratitude of the Muslims and the People of the Book of lower and upper Egypt be upon the Shophet and Captain-General of the Egyptian Republic and upon his glorious protector the Shophet of the Republic of Bayouk and his righteous legation.”

“Ameen,” the crowd of students proclaimed loudly in unison, each one trying to out-do the next in a sort-of demonstration of loyalty to the complex layers of rule and emphasis of equal lordship of which the Baywanis attempted to make all Egyptians be aware and acknowledge.

One by one, boys were called by the first-name, laqab, nasab to the second degree, and finally their nisba and handed their entrance certificates for the speech-school which would commence following the Lesser Eid at the end of Ramadan.

After reading some ten names, the ustadh-general retired, and a younger Egyptian scribe, a bureaucrat from the Andalusian School, continued.

“Abdelmomin Najemeddine bin Jaafar bin Khaldoun Al Busiri.” Abdelmomin glided past the scribe and with much relief and excitement recovered his entrance document from the ustadh-general and joined with his friends who were gathering near the ablutions fountain in front of the Moorish-style mosque adjacent to the school.

They compared their documents, issued in the name of the Republican Legation of Bayouk in Cairo, which carried their full names and described the chain of transmission of their knowledge to their professors, their professors’ professors, back to the first teachers of Islam in Atlantis, ending with "who studied from those who arrived from the Emirate of Granada and opened Atlantis in the New World for Islam.” While the history of transmission of knowledge made no mention of the Aztec influence on their education, the reality of their education proved otherwise, as did medieval Azteco-Berber calligraphy of the students names, traditionally stylized in the form of a pattern of feathers, an assumed peculiarity of New World Arabic calligraphy, but what was in fact a vestige of the Aztec priests of Quetzalcoatl, to whom the calmecas of the Aztec capital of Tenochitatlan were dedicated upon the founding of the Emirate of Atlantis. Underneath the transmissions of their education were listed the specialities in which each boy would occupay himself for the rest of his days.

“Learning!” Abdelmomin’s friend exclaimed, proud of his future destiny in educating the future republican pashas of Egypt. “You as well?”

Abdelmomin gazed past the long transmission of the validation of his education, tracing the fanciful if foreign and stylistically complicated Granadan typeface. Learning. He smiled, but did not reveal it to his friends, scared of catching the evil eye, a superstition all too common amongst the Egyptians. Of all the republican pashas who would come out of the Andalusian School, only those destined for education would be likely to see the New World in their lifetimes, or so technology of the time dictated.

It had been Abdelmomin’s dream since a young boy in the Andalusian School to visit the mysterious and glorious city of Mahdia across the oceans, where, as most Egyptians imagined, existed a just and righteous community of Muslims who excelled in life on the basis of merit, not of title, or landowning or ancestry. Despite the realities, thus was the idea of Bayouk and the Moorish New World amongst the Egyptians of the early republic, carefully crafted and maintained by the Moorish occupiers: an idea feared by Mamelouk landowning elite who dominated the Diwan, and one that at times the sheikhs of Al Azhar used to their advantage and at times used to instill fear in the Mamelouks to vote along their lines.

Within the first half a century of its existence, the Moors had succeeded in installing their legation as the mediating power between the traditionalists and pro-Constantinopolitan policies of the Mamelouks (who nevertheless enjoyed a seemingly return to top-level power following the conclusion of the appointment of Ottoman governors), the republican-influenced yet loyal Shaffite views of Al Azhar, and the fiercely loyal emerging “republican class” of Egypt’s Muslim merchants, Christians, Jews, the urban bourgeoisie and others who had only experienced domination and been denied influence under the Mamelouk and Ottoman covenants over Egypt.



---------
ANNEX: European Monarchs 1700-1800

Kings and Queens of Great Britain since 1700

House of Stuart
Queen Anne (r. 1702-1714)

House of Stuart-Oldenburg
Queen Mary III & King John II (r. 1714-1742) (b. 1685 – d.1742) Married John William Friso, Prince of Orange-Nassau, Stadtholder of Friesland in 1709

House of Stuart-Oldenburg-Orange-Nassau (in personal union with the Netherlands)
King William IV & III (r. 1742-1751) (b. 1711 – d. 1751) Married HRH Archduchess Maria Amalia (b. 1724 d. 1787) in 1739
Offspring:
-Princess Mary Theresa (b. 1743-1787) m. HRE Joseph II
-Prince William (b. 1748-1830)
-Prince Casper

King William V & IV 1751-, Parliamentary Regency to appease anti-Austrophiles 1751-1766, Married HRH Archduchess Maria Antonia (1755-) in 1770
Act of Union of 1823: Kingdom of Great Britain and the Netherlands
Offspring:
-William, Prince of Wales (b. 1781)
-Prince John (b. 1785-1816) Married Princess Marie Louise of Denmark (1792-) in 1810 (one daughter, Princess Antonia (b. 1820))



KINGS OF FRANCE

King Louis XIV (1643-1715)

King Louis XV (b. 1707 - d. 1776) r. 1715-1776 (2nd son of Louis of Burgundy, Le Petit Dauphin)

King Louis XVI (b. 1731 - d. 1805) r. 1776-1805 (Son of Louis XV), Married Maria Luisa of Spain



KINGS OF SPAIN

King Philip V (b. 1683 - d. 1746) r. 1700-1724, Married Maria Luisa of Savoy

King Ferdinand VI (b. 1713 - d. 1759) r. 1746-1759, Married Barbara of Portugal

King Charles III (b. 1734 - d. 1788) r. 1759-1788, Married Maria Amalia of Saxony

King Charles IV (b. 1748 - d. 1819) r. 1788-1819, Married Maria Luisa of Parma

King Charles V (b. 178 r. 1819-



HOLY ROMAN EMPERORS

Emperor Charles VI (b. 1685 - d. 1740) r. 1711-1740

Empress Maria Theresa* (b. 1717 - d. 1793) r. 1741-1793, Co-Ruler with her infant son, Emperor Joseph II

Emperor Joseph II* (b. 1741 - d. 1809) r. 1741-1809, Married Mary-Theresa of Great Britain (1743-1787), Daughter of William IV & Maria-Amalia
Offspring:
-Archduke Charles
-Archduke Francis
-Archduke Maximilian – 1st Emperor of the Tavantine b. 1769
-Archduchess Maria Christina

Emperor Charles VII (b. 1762) r. 1809- , Married Henriette of Bavaria (1762-1816, Bavaria merges into Habsburg Crown upon demise of incumbent HRE)
Offspring:
-Archduke Joseph, King of the Romans (HRE Heir) and Bavarian Duke (maternal inheritance)


DUKES & ELECTORS OF BAVARIA

Charles Theodore (b. 1724 - d. 1799) r. 1777-1799, Married Elisabeth Auguste of the Palatine (Pragmatic Sanction of 1790 for his daughter Henrietta, Holy Roman Empress)

Henrietta (b. 1762 - d. 1816) r. 1799-1816, Married HRE Charles VII
Offspring:
-Archduke Joseph, King of the Romans (HRE Heir) and Bavarian Duke (maternal inheritance)

 

[Al-numbers]

IT'S BACK.

Now to more pressing issues: An Ottoman Revolution!! A Giray Dynasty!! A republican Egypt!! A powerful Bayouk!! And stylized Arabic!!

Speaking of which, I wonder if there would be pre-Islamic/Aztec epics still written in Bayouk today? Sort of like the ITTL version of the Hikayat Seri Rama / Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa (pre-Islamic Malay epics).

 

[Essam]

I wasn't suggesting about Bayouk shifting to identify itself with Asia. United States of our world has always been a western nation part of European continuum, yet it saw and still sees opportunity for rewarding intervention in western Pacific. But I see now that there isn't much overlap between the traders and the state, but this certainly can't go on forever. I think I'm at fault for clinging into European conventional notion of merchantile imperialism, but if not the European form we all know, Moorish traders, and perhaps in extension the muslim traders, will find a way to latch into the state and have it support their enterprises overseas. In one way or another, Bayouk is going to be a player in Eastern Asia.

Your design for North Africa is crazy! There's no way it won't become a precedent. However my Ottomanophile heart is saddened to see Ottomans must be sacrificed for all this.

Indeed it's hard to imagine the Marathas will even care about Bayouk's ideology of governance before it will acquire a measure of prestige and fame. But Mughal's dislike of the idea should be able to play into that.

Frankly you last update didn't illustrate so much on the process of centralization. Have I missed it in the previous Ottoman updates ?

Will the Barbary States really like to see Bayouk growing more imposing on their backyard ? Well, by this point it shouldn't be obvious. But if they will break the post-Ottomans too hard, I wonder who else they will go to for counterweight against Bayouk later on.

I think we can see a historical precedent, outside of the Ottoman guild system, of Muslim traders acting very independently (relative to European imperial mercantilism) of their political centers, and this trend continues, for now, in MoA world. You're right, though, at some point, as the world becomes closer, this will not last. We see a traditionalist vs. modernist debate ITTL's Muslim world, once one side wins out, new debates and conflicts will emerge.

You're suggestion re: Marathan republicanism as a response to Mughal absolutism is, extremley interesting. I'll make sure to mention, credit and thank you if and when

The Barbary states are traditionally port cities, with little inland control, IOTL with pasha's establishing semi-hereditary control in some (Tunis) and rotating pashas with autonomy in others (Algiers) and a strong corsair influence throughout. ITTL, the corsairs have become normalized, and we see during the Ottoman Revolution and Moorish involvement, breakaway independence of these states under a sort of naval confederation, more on that to come. Algiers, of course, ITTL is still ruled by the Barbarossa dynasty as the Ottoman hereditary pashas from Gao were they rule as sultans of Songhai. Trans-Saharan politics, in a future update, will explore how long this lasts, the lasting legacies, and the future of the region.

If unification of Britain and the Netherlands exists, even if only in the weak form of a personal union, and persists for some time, I'm not sure why a fusion of the relevant companies into one would not follow. I'm not going to assert it would be a slam dunk since after all the Spanish crown took over Portugal for some decades OTL and yet the two nations, and their respective colonies, split apart again. But in this era the Iberian nations and the northern European ones are different. Precisely because, as Ridwan Asher says, Britain and the United Provinces are dominated by their capitalist classes, shouldn't a business merger be a feasible solution whereas Iberia, dominated by military aristocrats, posed a different problem of national identities being the "raison d'etre?"
...
The smart thing to do would be to create a third company and merge both into it, to avoid the impression that one defeated the other.

I too imagine a new company merging the both into an UKEIC or ADEIC. I'm not quite sure of the linguistic situation after the Act of Union, but I am sure of the eventual Act of Unification between the United Provinces and the UK. I'm also not sure on whether UK of Great Britain and the United Provinces or UK of Great Britain and the Netherlands is better. To be explained later is the Anglo-Austrian rapprochement thanks in part to the Austrophiles, and in part due to a weakening Ottoman dynasty and a raise in Anglo-Moorish competition over the seas. I am partial to thinking UK of Great Britain and the United Provinces would avoid any conflict with the Austrian Netherlands. UK of GB and the Northern Netherlands? Although colloquially I will continue to use Anglo-Dutch.

On East Indies, I think politically there shouldn't be much difference from OTL up to this point. But the upheaval in Ottoman Empire means a ripple to Islamic world in general, so I'm sure whatever ideological current will spring out of the crack, we will get some sprinkle of it, much like how Wahabist fattah in early 19th century Arabia got exported into Minangkabau in Sumatra and elsewhere throughout Indian Ocean Rim and Islamic world. On the other hand, even if we'll might only see the effect to build gradually, connection with Bayouk will only going to enrich the scene of local Islamic debates. Little known to many, Indonesia was in fact one of the primary theater of debate over the compatibility between Orthodoxy and Sufism. There's a reason why the animosity between local culture and Islamic orthodoxy is particularly pronounced in this part of Islamic world. While modern Islamism is simply a crude mimicry of western anti-organicism, it's just a new feature added to an already long-running phenomenon.

Java, as I've previously mentioned, will depend on the outcome of Javanese and Chinese War(I guess this name will make better comparison with French and Indians War, since it's a war against Javanese and Chinese, not between them). Should you change it, well you have given colonialism a major setback in this front. If not, it will depend on what lies ahead, which I'll assume European affairs and the Rise of Bayouk will play the shaping part. Surely, with ADU it means no British invasion and pillage of Java. Also no Daendels and thus the planting of French revolution there. Both of which were grave disasters to indigenous infrastructure. Cultuurstelsel was only a new plant being planted on the wasteland.

These are all good things to look into, especially given the two Chinas of TTL. You will of course remain the resident expert when the time comes to open the pandora's box that is the East Indies once more. Albeit not a focus of my timeline (sometimes I think the size of the world is a major deterrent to my constant updates) I do want to give every reason organic justice to develop as uniquely as the protagonists of TTL, the New World Moors.

Elsewhere in East Indies, Aceh will be affected by Ottoman Crisis. Even if by now their political connection isn't very relevant anymore, Aceh remains the regional center of Islamic intellectual learning and still looks to Rum as role model. Also, of all indigenous Islamic polities in East Indies, I suspect this will be the first place where Moorish republicanism will attract serious consideration. Aceh had a sidelined figure head monarchy, during which for a period was held, formally and mandatorily, by women. Ulee Balangs in local level were also effectively autonomous with nominal and necessary compliance towards monarchy, upon which its succession and roles they were very influential in determining, if with competition from the ulema. It's really the ideal gateway of the region.

Bayouk repulicanism will be understood different, applied differently and seen differently in the Sublime Porte because, to a certain extent, it is not an indigenous, organic movement, but rather "foreign"(ish) ideas that work well with the goals of many. At the time of the Ottoman Revolution, the Moorish political decision to see a weaker Sublime Porte by backing the Girays also saw the Ottoman Ulema back them as a tactical decision, after being sidelined for so long by the powerful Ottoman dynasty to mere rubber-stamp religious figures (just as the Giray consolidation of power met with the desire of the Coffeeshop movement to protest the alienation of the Ottoman elite under Sultana Asmahane's regency. The Giray dynasty and the Ottoman Ulema see each other as necessary allies to attempt to get the upper-hand in the post-Ottoman Revolution world of the Sublime Porte. Meanwhile, the Moors will attempt to spread genuine support for republicanism by the establishment of their schools as a base of indigenous support, and to raise the mythologized idea that Bayouk is coming to represent (despite its realities.) Given this, I'm sure in even further Aceh, "republicanism" will take on yet additional meanings and understandings, depending on how it plays out in the world of the Sublime Porte and whether Aceh casts her dice with the Girays, the Ulema or the republican schools.

So I was reading about the Dogon people in west Africa, and noted how their architecture kinda reminded me of Pueblo architecture, especially the cliff dwellings. Then I saw this image and I was reminded of this TL (adobe mosque in front of a cliff dwelling)

My TL rests and reflects hugely on my interest in images like these. Great find!

IT'S BACK.

Now to more pressing issues: An Ottoman Revolution!! A Giray Dynasty!! A republican Egypt!! A powerful Bayouk!! And stylized Arabic!!

Speaking of which, I wonder if there would be pre-Islamic/Aztec epics still written in Bayouk today? Sort of like the ITTL version of the Hikayat Seri Rama / Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa (pre-Islamic Malay epics).

I'm getting too used to "It's Back!" as a response to my updates. I truly apologise for that.

I'm sure pre-Islamic/Aztec and other Native American epics will be memorialized in Bayouk. Don't forget that Bayouk itself, besides its ruling Atlantean elite and their Aztec influence, consists of a large number of Muslim Native American tribes, their settled/urbanized descendants, as well as the ever-growing Muladid population as the distinction between Mudéjars, Moriscos, and Adites blurs amongst the non-elites with each passing generation.



Bonne lecture!

 

[othyrsyde]

So Egypt is an independent country or is it an autonomous/ceremonial part of the *Ottoman Empire (assuming it's not called the Ottoman Empire anymore given Giray's are now in charge)?

 

[Essam]

So Egypt is an independent country or is it an autonomous/ceremonial part of the *Ottoman Empire (assuming it's not called the Ottoman Empire anymore given Giray's are now in charge)?

Egypt, as it seems to always be destined to be, is between autonomy and the Sublime Porte. Its internal decision-making now comes from a Diwan composed mainly of Mamelouk landowners and pro-republic Al-Azhar scholars, while it is day to day run by a republican administration who's relationship with the Diwan is antagonistic. There will be a governor who's role has not been fully explored, and there is a shophet elected from the Diwan, who unlike in Bayouk, is more of a Speaker and "prime minister" figure to the Giray sultan's governor.

To recognize the continuity of the empire, the unofficial name "The Eternal Empire" I think will be fashioned into official use. I'm partial to "The Eternal Empire of the Sublime Porte," as there is nothing new to these terms, signifies continuity and supra-imperial prestige that the Girays will seek to re-instate following the Ottomans' ruin, yet also takes into account that now different dynasties can rule yet the imperial administration remains.

 

[Jonathan Edelstein]

It seems that sovereignty in the Islamic world is complex and layered, and that, as before, religious and temporal lordship are closely intertwined. For some purposes, Egypt, the Ottoman Empire and Bayouk are all one realm; for others, clearly not.

There seems to have been significant cultural transfer during the 18th century - the use of Carthaginian political terms and Mesoamerican-influenced Arabic calligraphy have both crossed the Atlantic. I'd guess that the emerging transatlantic mandarinate emerging from the École nationale d'... sorry, the Andalusian School has something to do with this. I wonder, though, how the mandarinate will clash (or has clashed already) with the more nationally-minded provincial elites.

 

[Thesaurus Rex]

Oh boy, it's back!

 

[Essam]

Linguistics of Moorish North America

I've attached a map of the linguistic situation in Moorish North America circa 1800, basically covering the languages spoken Muslims in the New World, excluding those few Muslim-speaking tribes that find themselves subject to His Majesty's dominions in Virginia.

Arabic: By far the dominant language amongst all classes and of all origins. While classical Arabic is the only written form of the language, Andalusian Arabic is the main basis of the dialect spoken, and likely after two centuries has significantly developed into what we might call North American Arabic, taking into account the role of Castilian amongst the secular scholars, the languages of the New World tribes, as well as close contact with English. The influence of Adite languages on the different dialects of spoken Arabic within Bayouk greatly reflects the family of the speaker's origins as well as their class, as more pure Arabic dialects are associated with the former Mudéjar judicial ruling class which famously mixed much less with the Adites than the Moriscos did who formed the ever-evolving and growing Muladid class. While Ladino exists and is used in the Jewish Marches, the Jews of Bayouk are, by the turn of the 19th century, a largely Arabic-speaking population. (I should also note Arabic-speakers are not so present as the map shows, more likely located along the coasts and in the central valley.)

Atlantean Berber: While retained amongst the Atlantean elite now in power and the rural Atlanteans farther from Mahdia and the delta cities, the majority of Atlanteans in Bayouk now speak Arabic, while retaining a distnct Atlantean identity. Of course, Atlantean Berber is greatly influenced by Nahuatl, and as such more than a few Nahuatl words have made their way into spoken North American Arabic by way of Atlantean Berber dialects.

Adite languages: Also known as "tribal languages," these are the languages which have most greatly had an influence on North American Arabic, and are the second most spoken in Bayouk. These languages, of course, have largely converged with one another (prime example is Kadwani, though no language has imposed itself at such a level given the socipolitical role of the Kadwani Confederacy) and been influenced by Arabic greatly. As they are rarely written, the future development of Adite languages will likely be that of Berber dialects in North Africa, they will continue instead of being standardised, to influence and change spoken Arabic in North America. Being the second largest group of languages spoken does not diminish the presence of indigenous people amongst the demographics, as many if not most of the Muslim indigenous population of North America are, by the turn of the 19th century, speakers of colloquial North American/Andalusian Arabic.

Kadwani: Largely based on the Caddoan dialects of this fiercely independent but early Islamicisized Adite confederation of tribes, the autonomy exerted by the Husseinid sultans has resulted in the spread of this language as many of the Islamicisized clans of tribes on the North American steppes found refuge and intermarried into Kadwani settlements. Unlike many of the other steppe tribes which famously have persisted in their nomadic lifestyles, the Kadwanis, like the Bani Talal - moundbuilders and forestland tribes - are largely urban and settled. While previously deriving their independence and wealth through the slave trade of raiding Spanish New Mexico, the conquest of the west has seen the Kadwanis evolve into a largely plantation and agricultural society. The loss in the slave trade as well as the hostile centralization of the Republic has produced much apathy between the Kadwanis and the republican rulers in Bayouk, and at the turn of the 19th century Kadwani is the only indigenous language that is written in the Arabic script with relative standardization. Amongst the Kadwani, however, many of the elites as well as the ruling chieftainly sultans speak Arabic as well, the court language of the Husseinid sultans of Kadwa.

French: French is the only language adopted by the indigenous tribes besides Arabic, and this reason is largely due to the regional powerhouse in northeastern Bayouk being largely Huguenot-influenced settlements. While the vast majority of French-speakers are Huguenots (who's educated populations are virtually bilingual Arabic-speakers) there is a small, but existing, community of French-speaking Muslim Adites in the northeast of Bayouk (many being from tribes who escaped either French missions or Iroquoian advancement during the Iroquois Ascent in the Great Lakes region.)

Iberian languages: While the use of Castilian remains strictly confined to scholarly and educated circles of lower Bayouk (largely Atlantean, but many Moriscos and Muladids as well) Ladino dialects are preserved in the Jewish Marches, which is uniquely the only emirate of the Republic which uses a second language in its administration and rulings, due to its unique stature. (While Huguenots form a large portion of the provinces they live in, these northeastern emirates and military-pashaliks are still run by Muslim administrations, which is not the case in the Jewish Marches, which is the sole emirate of the republic to not have a Muslim majority.) In Sonora and Pimeria, there remains a small, but present, community of Spanish speaking native tribes. As in the Californias, however, the language is disappearing as centralization and Islamicisization occur.

Turkish: Turkish, albeit a largely creolized version of it due to its exposure to Arabic and European languages, remains a provincially unique and popular spoken tongue along the Gulf coast, a vestige of the freedom to port east of Mahdia of the corsairs granted by the Moroccan sultans and continued until the naval confederation of the Barbary Republic was instituted by Bayouk during the Ottoman Revolution. The language remains spoken only by the descendants of the Corsairs and kologhulis, those mixed Turkish-North African offspring of corsairs and Turkish beys by Maghrebine women of prior centuries. While some literature exists written in the Ottoman script of this dialect, as education and centralization by Mahdia is exerted, it is largely becoming a rural, generational, and dying dialect.

 

[Badshah]

Re: Marathan 'republicanism', it's important to note that the Marathas won't be altering their governing practices in response to the Mughals. Quite frankly, they were primarily raiders whom were very independent-minded; their home was Maharashtra but the rest of India was practically a raiding ground to improve their home. True, in many places, the Marathas will be competing for taxes (both the Mughals and Marathas levied them in Maharashtra, to the detriment of peasants) but in many ways the Maratha 'Empire' was like the Mongols in nature.

Concerning councils, both the Mughals and Marathas employed them, and in the latter case, those turned into hereditary positions, where caste, and to some dgree, pedigree kept the wheels turning. The Marathas were a decaying state due to this, and it was a phenomenon that kicked in very early in their development. They're not centralised enough to pull off real republican advances, IMO. And the powerful rulers, Scindia or Holkar, frex, won't be looking to play a more republican role in their domains.

I also think Mughal absolutism has a grain of salt to it as well; it's a huge empire where complete centralisation has never sat well with its subjects; indeed here you might see a more federalised process occur, with a 'God-Emperor' at the top if you go that route, or the 'Padshah-Khalifa'.

 

[Al-numbers]

Interesting mix of languages. I wonder if the Iroquois will be the next tribe to undergo Islamization, or are they far away enough from the political center to resist the pressure?

And I don't know if this has already been discussed, but I wonder what became of the OTL Sioux?

 

[Essam]

Wars of the Sultans

Allegory of the Moorish Liberation of Egypt​

The Saladin Wars [a misnomer from the Arabic “as-sulateen,” or “[Wars of] the Sultans”] (1754-1770) brought radical changes to the established order in Muslim societies. While to different degrees intersecting and interrelating, the conglomeration as a single bellicose period is, despite its long-standing precedent in historiography, anachronistic. The “Saladin Wars,” in the western world, strictly speaking consisted of the Ottoman Revolution (at its time viewed as a mere palace coup or “restoration,” however, given the significant sociopolitical changes that followed more appropriately in retrospect known as a revolution,) the First Dervish-Moorish War in North America, and the subsequent Moorish Civil War. In the East, the Nasserian Revolution spread across Persia and into Central Asia where various khanates were forced to choose between the ascendancy of Nasser Shah or the protection of the Russians or Mughals, crippling Russian involvement against the Sublime Porte during the Ottoman Revolution. Their conjunction with the bellicose period between the Anglo-Habsburg alliance against the states allied to the Bourbon Pact in Europe (as well as Nasserian Persia’s alliance with the Bourbons against the Sublime Porte) has led many to describe the second half of the 19th century as the all-world war, while others have described the period, in conjuction with the War of Austrian Succession and early 18th century conflicts, as the second Hundred Years War.

The Saladin Wars are generally cited by contemporary (largely Arabic-speaking) historiographers as the “Second Opening” or conquest of Islam. Alwalid Hassan Pasha Masmudi, a foremost Moorish historiographer of the 19th century (Gregorian) rightly describes the importance of the wars in the collective narrative of the Mohammedan corpus, stating “whereas the early openings of the Arabs focused on expanding Islam outward, the ‘Second Opening’ of the New World Moors in Barbary, Egypt and up to the gates of the Sublime Porte represent a literal inward sweeping and social transformation of western Islam.”

Moorish involvement in the Old World
Moorish intervention in North Africa, as well as their support to Ottoman nouvelle bourgeoisie and their Giray patrons, marked the beginning of, what by the end of 19th century Gregorian, would be a normative revolution in the theology of western Islam. As in Bayouk; traditionalist, academic Ulema and their royal patrons would be cast-aside in favour of activist Ulema, heavily influenced by Moorish Zahirid modernist thought as developed by the Umayyad Madrassa in Mahdia, taking on unique regional variations. Moorish involvement directly in the Mediterranean world would be relatively short-lived, however their deep influence would thanks to institutions established, the classical example being the Andalusian School in Cairo. Masmudi correctly writes that without such a normative revolution having taken place beginning with the Ottoman Revolution, and finishing with the Peace of Cairo in 1770, further sociopolitical developments such as the Rashidiya tendency, reasonism, the explosion of mechanization in the southern and eastern Mediterranean, and the sociological division of the Islamic world into a “western” and “eastern” Islam et. al. might have never taken place.

The Moors of the New World had succeeded in emerging as the foremost power in the western Islamic world following the Peace of Cairo in 1770, which, aside from ending the hostilities between various forces involved in the Ottoman Revolution, saw the ascension of the Giray dynasty to the Sublime Porte. However, intervention in the Old World and the subsequent entanglements and diplomacies would take its toll on Bayouk. By the end of the Saladin Wars, a new, anti-republican movement had been born and spread rapidly amongst the dervishes of the Cacique Nizam in the North American steppes, the northern provinces of the Republic had denounced the republican experiment and severed any ties of sovereignty with Mahdia, reinstituting the exiled Saadian claimants as ruler of Kahoqiya. Bayouk no longer represented the entire Muslim New World, and faced hostile neighbors both to its north in Kahoqiya, as well attempts to maintain the naval alliance of the corsair city-states and autonomous beys and deys in their Barbary Republic client state, who’s temporal ties to the Sublime Porte had been severed as a condition of Moorish entry on part of the Giray and their partisans. Most importantly, however, would be the increase in contact, and future conflict, with their Giray one-time allies in Constantinople during the republican experiment in Egypt.

During the wake of the Saladin Wars, republicanism, a concept previously known only to the Moors of the New World and their kinsmen in Barbary and a few scholarly elites in the Ottoman world, took hold in Egypt, while Zahirid thought and secular sciences influenced to lesser degrees the Giray dynasts, who rallied Ottoman Ulema who sought to take advantage of the Ottoman Revolution to their own advantage. Republicanism became increasingly significant and would shape much of the course of future history of Muslim-majority societies. Republicanism swept across North Africa, brining with it consensual governance, universal education in the Azteco-Berber tradition (known as or “Neo-Spartan” by European contemporaries at the time), renaissance of the Moorish philosophies and humanitarian sciences and began to reduce the influence and power of the traditional Ulema in favor of two new distinct classes of intellectuals, mirroring their Moorish New World counterparts: “modernist” Zahirid-influenced and politically active and religiously puritan scholars on one hand, and those associated with and educated in the secular sciences at the Andalusian School and the network of schools across the Eternal Empire of the Sublime Porte which enjoyed the patronage of the Republican Legation of Bayouk in Cairo.

Peace of Cairo
The reorganisation of the Sublime Porte under the Peace of Cairo of 1770 also saw the naissance of Anglo-Moorish naval rivalry over dominance of the high seas, as the Moors attempted a republican experiment in Lower Egypt under the auspices of remaining a domain of the Sublime Porte. Under the Peace of Cairo, the Giray dynasty was recognized as sultan, padishah and caliph and successor of the prophet of God. His temporal domains were referred to as the Sublime Porte, whereas various pashalical and beylikal proto-dynasties, which saw their hereditary positions established and recognized by firmans, became known as (autonomous) “holdings” of the Giray sultan as Caliph and Padishah, or emperor. In the holdings, the Sultan was recognized as sultan, king and overlord, putting them effectively in personal and sacred union with the Sublime Porte, while their internal policies became subject to the whims of their hereditary rulers. In North Africa, two republics were established: one independent of the Giray sultan’s temporal rule, the Barbary Republic; and one as a holding in personal and sacred union with Constantinople, the Holding of the Egyptian Republic.

The Barbary Republic
In the Barbary Republic, which stretched from Constantine in the east (bordering the Algerine and Songhai domains of the Barbarossid sultants) to Tripoli and Benghazi (bordering republican Egypt) in the west, the major deys and beys of the ports and cities within the republic formed a council that was to cooperate and centralize not only the corsair actions on the coast, with the Saharan trade inland, but also with the trade the increasingly mechanized cities had with the European powers.

Not longer after its creation, would the local beys and deys be overthrown by corsairs who created competing councils, forcing the Moors of Bayouk to intervene, appointing a captain-general of the corsair navies, rendering the “Barbary Republic” little more than a collection of corsair-run ports and cooperating navy, with a parallel system of Moorish administrators from Bayouk maintaining the trade, mechanization, and foreign treaties of the de jure “republic” as well as implementing educational and societal reform in line with the republican project. While Moorish “occupation” in Egypt would be indirect and through an indigenous elite trained in the Andalusian School, direct intervention of Bayouk in the Barbary Republic would become a collateral responsibility of Bayouk in exchanged for her attempt to assume a major role in the Mediterranean sphere.

Republicanism in Egypt
In Egypt, while the Giray sultan remained the holder of Egypt, the Egyptian Ulema and mamelouk elites remained much more receptive to republican theology than the Moors’ allies in Anatolia and the Levant. To maintain such an influence, a compromise was reached in the Peace of Cairo. The Egyptian mamelouks regained autonomy and power over Ottoman-era governorship, organizing themselves on a model similar to Bayouk. While the sultan in Constantinople remained titular temporal and religious authority, a triumvirate was elected from amongst the mamelouk elites to govern, reorganize and socially transform Egyptian society. Important to the protection of the seedling Egyptian republicanism, the “Republican Legation” of Bayouk was established in Cairo.

Evolution of Diplomacy and Sovereignty
This first embassy marked what would later come to be known as “lordship equality,” in the political thought of early modern Muslim societies. The separation of northern Bayouk under the Saadian sultans, from the south saw a unique formula developed by the republican rubber-stamp Ulema of the Ummayad Madrassa: the Miat, as the congress of the Muslim collective in the New World opposed to the concept of “Old World” hereditary sultanic tyranny, in Mahdia assuming guardianship of the Covenant (of Lordship)” (the same term used by the Islamic monarchies to title their crown princes) of the Republic. In addition to shophet, the leader chosen from this down legitimizing legislature was given the additional honourific of “Ruler on behalf of the Guardianship of the Covenant,” effectively elevating the position of shophet from a speaker or leader of the legislature, to one of an executive. The Peace of Cairo, while the Republic of Bayouk recognized the Giray sultan as the legitimate caliph, also saw Constantinople recognize the Miat of Bayouk as “complete and proper guardians of lordship” within their temporal domains over the lives of the Muslims of Bayouk. Over the next century, society, culture and politics in the western Islamic world would greatly change to adapt to the new reality of various concepts sovereignty and republicanism, diverging greatly from the traditionalism that would be maintained and reenforced in the Persian and Mughal societies of the East.

 

[othyrsyde]

Love the language diversity and its evolution in Bayouk. That, and along with the evolution of republican institutions, state-formation, and religious and Atlantean cultural influences is really getting interesting, especially now that Bayouk has went from an oversea colony to basically having their own. The split between Western and Eastern Islam is going to be fascinating since it won't be so cut and dry given Bayouk's Pacific access to *Indonesia. Great work again Essam.

 

[Zireael]

Uh, I'm not good on the Ottomans/Sublime Porte so I'll skip commenting on that.

I like the Atlantean calligraphy, though!

I've noticed there is no French Revolution in this TL, judging by the fact that Louis XVI still lives in 1805. Trying to figure out how the British monarchs fit... I guess Anne lived longer than in OTL, then was succeeded by her sister Mary, who married William of Orange as in OTL, then they had kids (which they didn't have IOTL...). Right?

I love the language map!

 

[Can'tRememberUsername]

This is such a great History you have created. Just finished reading the whole thing, start to finish. Keep up the good work.

Oh and if you could somehow create Muslim Maori, that'd be great.

 

[Jonathan Edelstein]

The split between Western and Eastern Islam is going to be fascinating since it won't be so cut and dry given Bayouk's Pacific access to *Indonesia.

It actually looks like there will be a more-or-less continuous belt of Islamic culture, at least if the Muslim-ruled Indian states are counted. In the long run, this will mean that, despite the split into East and West, the conflicts between traditional and emerging politics and theology will play out everywhere. Persia won't be able to insulate itself, but then again, neither will Egypt or Bayouk. I expect that the balance between republicanism and anti-republicanism will be fluid for some time, as will the various theological doctrines and definitions of lordship that develop within and around the republics.

This is really amazing stuff as always. A question about language: Is the Arabic dialect of the Jewish Marches similar to OTL Judeo-Arabic with Hebrew and Ladino elements?