Is it possible for the Ottoman Empire in the late 19th century to reform and be westernized?
Meiji Restoration... for the Ottoman Empire
- Thread starter A.M. Turtle
- Start date
Well from what I know (and it isn't much mind you) it is very much possible, though the earlier any reforms are implemented the better...after the 1876 Russo-Ottoman War the Porte was pretty much shafted, and it becomes more difficult to save the Ottomans from that point on.
Also, the Ottomans did begin reforming (look up the Tanzimat)...but like I said I only wished I were better versed on the subject...I recommend messaging Abdul Hadi Pasha, he's our resident expert on anything Ottoman Empire.
Also, the Ottomans did begin reforming (look up the Tanzimat)...but like I said I only wished I were better versed on the subject...I recommend messaging Abdul Hadi Pasha, he's our resident expert on anything Ottoman Empire.
The Ottomans were westernized, though. They were just... eh, industry could've been better and the constitution probably shouldn't have been suspended as long as it was, but to ask if they could "pull a Meiji" implies that they were at the same level of sophistication as Shogunate Japan, which isn't true at all.
As a matter of fact, it did modernize and westernize, but yeah many of the fruits of the reforms got devastated by the defeat in 1878. Even after that, it proved fairly formidable defensively, in some ways, though that partly owed to Abdul Hamid's iron hand rule.
Indeed, the earlier the reforms start, the generally better the empire would have been. But one thing to be noted that even with the same OTL development until 1877 would have been good enough. In that Russo-Ottoman War, Ottomans certainly could have had won. They had more troops than the Russians mobilized to invade the empire, better weaponry, formidable defensive ground, and also the then third largest navy in the world. The only thing they lacked was real unity of command. Change that, and Ottomans could have won indeed.
Better yet still for the empire, would be a more successful reign of Selim III.
Indeed, the earlier the reforms start, the generally better the empire would have been. But one thing to be noted that even with the same OTL development until 1877 would have been good enough. In that Russo-Ottoman War, Ottomans certainly could have had won. They had more troops than the Russians mobilized to invade the empire, better weaponry, formidable defensive ground, and also the then third largest navy in the world. The only thing they lacked was real unity of command. Change that, and Ottomans could have won indeed.
Better yet still for the empire, would be a more successful reign of Selim III.
Indeed the reforms could have started earlier, but about constitution, it was rather necessary post 1878, especially when remembering the main cause of the loss was the lack of firm unity of command. There was also Russian pressure who wanted to keep their autocracy.
And as for how advance Ottoman Empire was compared to the contemporary Japanese Shogunate, I don't know enough details to comment on that. but the empire certainly had rathjer sever ecological restriction to have industrial revolution. Demographic diversity, while often overplayed to much as the problem of the empire, certainly worked against this issue.
Certainly there was fair justification from the government's point of view to suspend the constitution, but to keep it like that until 1908? It could've- and I think should've- been re-installed earlier.
Not so much heavy industry as much as a general growth in production and commerce-- Midhat Pasha's work around Nis suggests that the Ottomans could've experienced a greater agricultural boom in the later 19th century had reforms been more aggressively pursued and implemented.
1) Fair point. I'm currently not able to confirm this, but that does seem to be was the case that Hamidyan autocracy lasted to long. It's to be expected though....
2) News to me. I didn't know that, thanks for pointing out