Map Thread XXI

[Aichi72]

My my, the Spanish directly administer Florida and the islands? Well, I suppose it would still be a colony so not like it is getting the rights of the provinces in the homeland, for what little those were. Did we never end up with the Five Civilized Tribes here since the US didn’t control the areas of Mississippi and Alabama? Makes me almost wish that the borders were rounded instead of straight down there. It would be interesting to see those tribes ending up with a respected status (probably with a lot of mestizos down the line), used as border troops against invading American filibusters. Does seem a bit unfair that the British would annex all of Maine, considering they neither claimed all of it nor did New England get too involved in the War of 1812. Then again, I suppose a long line of Virginian Presidents are hardly going to mind losing some New Englander land. And why it has nothing really to do with pods or such, I love how the Indian Buffer state has a slight difference in the northwest borders and does not have that little American exclave around Lake of the Woods.

Come to think think of it, I wonder if the light yellow in the Great Plains is because of high autonomy for the locals or just administrative boundaries so the New Spanish can stay in a couple cities while a couple of the larger tribes raid the smaller ones. I do find it very strange the way Pennsylvania expanded, so I imagine that there must have been some Haudenosaunee/Iroquois entity before or during the revolution here, or the parts unclaimed by Pennsylvania would have been their own state in this United States. I imagine the economy will be a fair bit different here without the ability to dig the canals used IOTL to funnel things from the Great Lakes into the ports at Brooklynn and Manhattan and the other boroughs/former cities around there.

I do wonder on the exact POD for this, which I know you say you are unsure on. Has to be sometime after South Carolina gave up their strip of land to North Carolina, though I suppose they might not have bought of it as too important. A union of Carolinas would be good, but makes sense they do not do it here, as the aristocrats could not want to give up to much influence tot he other. I suppose they would marry into each other enough that the only real issue would be where to locate the capital. Ahhh right, the reason I brought this up was I wondered if States Island still went to New York here. If the split happened before the union broke up, then maybe, but if after then I don’t see the Americans backing down right away unless it involved partial dropping of claims by New York in the West. The part with the Kingdom of the Seven United Netherlands seems a bit off, but I suppose they might just call their provinces that at some point while Finding ways to unify their statholders into one person. Maybe kind of like how so many countries in Africa and the Middle East put Arab in their name or used very similar flags. Lots of other examples in history I am sure, but those were so successful that we don’t even think about how groups unified into one. An yo know, I think this Canada may be quite a bit more French Speaking, as it will be harder for Americans to travel to Ontario and settle there. Depends on how amiable the British are to American settlers. They might not think of them as a threat since they are broken up, and thus let them settle in southern Quebec, with the Americans who would travel to upstate New York ending up there instead. Not that the numbers would be exactly the same, since a lot of the population growth was from farmers having lots of kids.

The Floridas and the Insular territories are full provinces of Spain that have all the rights and responsibilities of such. This state of affairs came about for two reasons: the Insular territories were the oldest Spanish colonies in the Americas, and it was there that colonial reform began to be a large issue. They were integrated into Spain, although later Spanish goveernments would go for a different arrangement for the mainland colonies due to the greater difficulty of administration, especially in northern New Spain. The Floridas were integrated after a series of scandals and economic mismanagment rocked the Captaincy-General government. It was initially going to be integrated into New Spain, but most of the residents (who were recent immigrants from Spain) preferred integration into Spain proper. I don't know enough about the Five Civilised Tribes to comment on them, but they're probably still aroud in some reservations in the Floridas and Georgia. As for Maine, there were OTL British attempts to conquer the area and establish a colony named New Ireland in both the ARW and the War of 1812.

The lighter yellow in the Great Plains are autonomous native nations (Blackfoot, Sioux, a couple of others). A Haudenosaunee state did exist in the area. As the US encroached on their land, it was added to Pennsylvania becuase the parts unclaimed by that state would have been too underpopulated to make a separate state. The remainder of the Haudenosaunee would end up a British protectorate which you can see on the map southeast of Upper Canada. To make things interesting, Staten Island was occupied by the British in the US-British War and never given back. It initkialy became the most heavily fortified settlement in North America, but things have settled down since the thawing of US-NY-UK relations in the later 19th century.

The Kingdom of the Seven United Netherlands came about when the Orangist faction decisively seized control of the States-General and reformed the Dutch Republic into a kingdom. Without the break in continuity that was the Batavian Republic, the Kingdom of Holland, and the First French Empire, the Orangists just changed the official name of the state from the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands by replacing republic with kingdom. Canada (or ITTL the North American provinces of the United Kingdom) would still recieve immigrants from the US, especially because the that region is more unstable ITTL, For the same reason, a lot of the immigrants that OTL went to the US would find themselves in Canada and New Spain ITTL as well. But the area is probably more Francophone than OTL, maybe enough to make Upper Canada (OTL Ontario) fully bilingual.

 

[James the AH Fan]

The map is set in 2000 AD.

Interesting, however the likelihood of direct colonial control over mainland North America by 2000 would be extremely low, as dozens of independence movements would have to be butterflied away.

 

[Aichi72]

Interesting, however the likelihood of direct colonial control over mainland North America by 2000 would be extremely low, as dozens of independence movements would have to be butterflied away.

Dozens of independence movements are butterflied away or are crushed due to no French Revolution/Napoleonic Wars and the failure of the United States. Also there is not much direct colonial control. The British provinces are integral parts of an Imperial Federation UK with plenty of provincial autonomy (on the level OTL Canadian provinces and US states). (Actually, I just notices that Québec has been given the provincial colour when it should have the lighter autonomous region colour. That was a mistake on my part.) Russian Alaska is not very populous, and the Spanish Viceroyalties have gained more and more autonomy from Madrid over the two centuries (they are closer to OTL British Dominions now).

 

[Luxembourgish Jane]

Map of the U.S.S.E. - Earth
(Union of Solar Socialist Entities)

​

 

[Undeadmuffin]

@Luxembourgish Jane Are Agricultural Exclusion Zone radioactive regions where agriculture is forbidden or something more nefarious ?

 

[Luxembourgish Jane]

@Luxembourgish Jane Are Agricultural Exclusion Zone radioactive regions where agriculture is forbidden or something more nefarious ?

AEZs are areas where the government forcefully de-urbanized, and replaced with only farms, and other agricultural projects. It is an extreme overreaction to the possibility of a global famine back when the USSE defeated the Republic on Earth and Venus.

 

[PolishMagnet]

Finally done

Part of my "Flipped South" series, I decided to finally go all-in and do a high-detail overhaul, also going back to the "Renaissance" (which in this case, is the flow of Chinese classics into Europe).

In 897, Rome vanished. In its place, a whole new world appeared. Tancia, the Empire of All Under Heaven, quickly dominated the open spaces of southeastern Europe. Christianity was in disarray, and only the firm hand of the Carolingian Dynasty was able to hold it together.

Spoiler: 8k version

Spoiler: Etymologies

EURIC (Eabhrac, Irish conquerers)
Linda = Linn Dubh (Black Pool)
Evoria = Eboria (from the old latin name for York)
Nattyhav = Na Tithe Uaimh
Darvy = Dearbhagh(?) idk Irish-esque attempt at Old Englihs "Deoraby" (c.900)
Cornaugh = Irish-esque attempt at Cornovii (tribe present during Roman times)

NORMANDY (Norse conquerers)
Londen = yknow
Oksekrys = from Oxenford (Oxford), oxen -> okse and crossing -> krys
Hambyskir = from Ham(p)tunshire (Hampshire), Ham and tun (town) -> by and shire -> Icelandic "skir(i)"
Durnvik = from Durnovaria (Roman Dorchester), Durnovarik -> shortened Durnvik
Kornval = Karnos -> Korn and Walhaz -> Val (in Icelandic), same origin as Cornwall

WALES
Caerwrangon = Caer (fort) + Wrangon (old English name for Worcester)

The rest are carried over from my other maps

A lot of the names are attempts to replicate how old maps "tried" foreign names, but also they reflect what local people called the places (sometimes). Hence Poland has "Siradz" and "Lonsitia" instead of Sieradz and Lęczyca.

A.R. Jiajing = Anno Regni Jiajing / Year of the Reign of Jiajing (Emperor)

pls i thirst for attention/questions i spent almost a month working on this

 

[Beatriz]

Map of the U.S.S.E. - Earth
(Union of Solar Socialist Entities)

​

I like the *provincial borders - reminds me of Societist Zones

 

[Beatriz]

Dozens of independence movements are butterflied away or are crushed due to no French Revolution/Napoleonic Wars and the failure of the United States. Also there is not much direct colonial control.

are there large numbers of lightly influenced/protected native states in Africa and Asia?

 

[Aichi72]

are there large numbers of lightly influenced/protected native states in Africa and Asia?

Well, I haven't actually given much thought outside of North America, but probably yes. Expect more Princely States in the Raj and whatever the equivalent in the Dutch East Indies were as well. Some Spanish vassals in Mindanao and Borneo also. I would expect Africa to be lightly colonised ITTL. With the Scramble for Africa butterflied away, assume a colonisation effort that is both less unified and less intense. The most extensive European colonies in Africa would be in the north and the far south, while Sub-Saharan Africa is mostly colonised along the coast with vassal states inland and European influence decreasing the deeper into the continent one goes.

 

[Wendell]

View attachment 832007
Not entirely sure of a plausible PoD for this scenario (suggestions are welcome). Premise is that the US fails to become more centralised after the Revolution and remains a loose confedertion of states. Interstate conflict and diverging interests cause many of the states to go their separate ways in the next few decades, leaving a rump US in the Mid-Atlantic states and New England. New England then secedes after a disastrous war with Britain (the UK was busy in a continental war in Europe and the US thought a quick push into York and Montréal could coud force a quick peace and get them the Northwest Territory plus maybe parts of Upper Canada). Later secessions in the early 1820s see New York and Vermont also go their own ways. Also, there is no French Revolution and the Ancien Régime has gone on, leaving both Spain and France in better positions than OTL. The map is set in 2000 AD.

I've generally assumed that, if Canada or its analogue annexed the U.S. Old Northwest it would eventually also acquire the Louisiana country north of the Missouri River.

 

[Aichi72]

I've generally assumed that, if Canada or its analogue annexed the U.S. Old Northwest it would eventually also acquire the Louisiana country north of the Missouri River.

The Old NW is an autonomous native confederacy that has not been settled by Europeans much, so Britain was not as interested in the territory. By the time that the UK turned its attentions towards that settling the borders of that region, Spanish control over the Louisiana territory had been well established and the UK was not interested in upsetting Spain, as the Bourbon monarchies had recently grown more friendly to Britiain through their participation in TTL's version of the Crimean War.

 

[Pipcard]

AEZs are areas where the government forcefully de-urbanized, and replaced with only farms, and other agricultural projects. It is an extreme overreaction to the possibility of a global famine back when the USSE defeated the Republic on Earth and Venus.

Considering the high population density in Eastern China, that could have only been catastrophic.

 

[What if]

Why does Laos control Cambodia?

Edit don't get me wrong very interested by the map, especially the Flag design for Manchuria just curious about Laos controlling Cambodia.

 

[Aichi72]

Is this basemap a Q-BAM? If so, where did you find that long/lat lines and the bathymetry for it?

 

[qazse]

Here's a map inspired by an Israeli plan...

 

[AP246]

Kishi's Dream and the new Japanese Empire - Neo-colonial Cold War Japan

In the post-war period, there was a concept, championed especially by politicians like Nobusuke Kishi (who was heavily involved in the wartime Japanese Empire and subsequently became Prime Minister again in the 50s, which is a... whole other thing) of Japan taking a new pre-eminent role economically in Asia. The idea was Japan would invest heavily and give economic guidance and technical expertise to east and south east asian capitalist regimes, in return for access to its raw materials and consumer markets - something the US supported as a way to bolster anti-communist regimes while having Japan pay for it.

In reality, this never really took off, as the wartime memories of Japanese imperialism and atrocities were too much to accept Japan's pre-eminence again for most East and South East Asian states, but what if it did? What if Japan managed to convince much of the region that its leadership was now benevolant, perhaps with a more conciliatory foreign policy?

It's now been a couple decades, it's the early 70s, and the Asian Development Fund has been transformed into a formal Asian Development Organisation, giving Japan significant sway in the region. This is beginning to concern Japan's allies in Washington, who are increasingly worried they've revived the Japanese empire and created a problem for their own interests (hence the map and article - it's from a US perspective). As the Sino-Soviet split becomes extremely tense, the old cold war order is breaking down, as Moscow seeks rapprochement with Tokyo to contain Beijing, and the question of a US-Chinese detente to check Japan's expansion even seems on the table.

 

[Filo]

⬆️ I found this very interesting.

 

[Beatriz]

In terms of maps, is there a “smallest country that can be clearly perceived on the map without squinting” limit?

I suspect the tendency towards spacefiling empires in earlier maps stemmed from less resolution/smaller maps?

 

[Pax_Nihil]

In terms of maps, is there a “smallest country that can be clearly perceived on the map without squinting” limit?

I suspect the tendency towards spacefiling empires in earlier maps stemmed from less resolution/smaller maps?

Err, maybe Luxembourg? Kinda depends on what size, projection, style, etcetera that the map is and people do not have a uniform sense of eyesight. Interesting question though.