England may have seen some use informally, but in a presentation like this sort of map, Britain or Great Britain would have been used. I found the presence of borders marking the members of the UK odd too, especially since the same aren't present in Germany or Austria-Hungary.
Map Thread XII
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England may have seen some use informally, but in a presentation like this sort of map, Britain or Great Britain would have been used. I found the presence of borders marking the members of the UK odd too, especially since the same aren't present in Germany or Austria-Hungary.
Witch0Winter
Banned
Sorry, but that is very wrong. I actually based the map on a real life map published by The Sunday News out of London in 1914, which included those divisions in the United Kingdom and used "England" in place of "Great Britain" or "United Kingdom".
Trust me, as somebody who really hates pars pro toto as a general practice across the board, it does look very odd to me as well. However, it is a fact that "England" as often as not was interchangeable with the U.K. back then, so using the subdivisions as indicated doesn't really seem out of place. Great map, btw!
I posted this map quite a while ago, but recently revisited it because it felt unfinished to me. Basically the premise is both a less aggressive Christian expansionism into northern Europe, and a more successful Viking Age that lasted longer. The year of the map is about 1740, and shows a very different world.
The Danelaw in England (and later Scotland, and later Ireland) evolved into an independent state (the Kingdom of Jorvik) that began expanding in its own right. While a minor Kingdom of Wessex still exists (in vassalage to the Empire of Francia - Charlemagne-esque but only recently grown to its current size), the majority of Britain is firmly under the rule of the old gods. Meanwhile, the Welsh peoples managed to unite into an independent Kingdom of Cymru, which is a unique blend of both Celtic Pagan and Christianity.
As for Norse Paganism, the old ways still reign supreme, albeit in very different ways. 'Raids' now are more calculate and less arrogant than they once were. They are more about collecting slaves than hoarding wealth, less about seizing land than they once were. The Realm of Vinland is the strongest of the north American (obviously not called America ITTL, but bear with me) colonies, and the only 'independent' one. The few Vinlanders that can still travel to Uppsala every nine years to pay homage to the gods, and they are still subjects of the Danish king. Denmark itself still holds onto their colony north of Vinland, which is still too cold and underpopulated to really be considered 'independent'. This colony is called Markland.
Elsewhere, the Portuguese have been the successful conquerors of the Americas. Although their approach has been far less aggressive than that of the Spanish in OTL, mostly due to a lack of manpower in order to fully overwhelm the natives of their colonies. The Portuguese colonies are divided into 'Provincias' ruled by local governors, and 'Colonias' ruled by the military. Intermarrying with the locals is common, though conversion to Christianity hasn't been nearly as successful as it was in OTL. In fact, in the Aztec and Maya vassal states, where Portuguese control is fairly nominal, the old ways are still followed, although human sacrifice in these lands has lessenned every decade. Meanwhile, down south, the Inca of Tawantinsuyu proved too much of a match for the Portuguese, who traded access from north to south (and vice versa) for weaponry, medicines, and protection.
Islam, like Christianity, was a lot less aggressive ITTL as well. It never made it into Anatolia, where Rome still rules, and in fact the Turks ended up settling in Persia. Here the 'Ottoman Empire' holds vassalage over many minor kingdoms. In Arabia, the tribes of the desert have banded together under a 'High King' of sorts to better defend against both the Turkish spread into the Levant and the Christians in North Africa and Egypt. Likewise, the Kazakhs of the steppes have done much the same thing faced with a rapidly eastward-expanding Ukrainian empire constantly at odds with Pagan Novgorod.
In the east, the Mongols managed to create a long-lasting empire: multiple invasions and partially successful conquests have led to a fractured China. To the south is one of the Chinese Empires, which turned away from the mainland and towards the sea, conquering and assimilating (largely) the Philippines, Ryuku Islands, and Nam Viet. In the northeast, another Chinese Empire lives in near vassalage to Mongols, while dominating the centre is something of a peasant-warlord state as close to communism as one can get in the 18th Century. Japan also turned away from the continent and now holds a thriving colony on the western American coast.
As for Europe as a whole, attempted crusades have happened, but a surprisingly effective alliance between Jorvik, Norway, Denmark-Saxony, Sweden and Norway have kept the Christians at bay. Francia instead turned its attention south with ambitions to turn their North African 'empire' into a full-blown colony one day. They're also the dominant power in India and the east Indies, whereas the Pagans are more interested in trade in the east.
Any questions feel free to ask. Here be the map, as I said, set in about 1740 CE.
The Danelaw in England (and later Scotland, and later Ireland) evolved into an independent state (the Kingdom of Jorvik) that began expanding in its own right. While a minor Kingdom of Wessex still exists (in vassalage to the Empire of Francia - Charlemagne-esque but only recently grown to its current size), the majority of Britain is firmly under the rule of the old gods. Meanwhile, the Welsh peoples managed to unite into an independent Kingdom of Cymru, which is a unique blend of both Celtic Pagan and Christianity.
As for Norse Paganism, the old ways still reign supreme, albeit in very different ways. 'Raids' now are more calculate and less arrogant than they once were. They are more about collecting slaves than hoarding wealth, less about seizing land than they once were. The Realm of Vinland is the strongest of the north American (obviously not called America ITTL, but bear with me) colonies, and the only 'independent' one. The few Vinlanders that can still travel to Uppsala every nine years to pay homage to the gods, and they are still subjects of the Danish king. Denmark itself still holds onto their colony north of Vinland, which is still too cold and underpopulated to really be considered 'independent'. This colony is called Markland.
Elsewhere, the Portuguese have been the successful conquerors of the Americas. Although their approach has been far less aggressive than that of the Spanish in OTL, mostly due to a lack of manpower in order to fully overwhelm the natives of their colonies. The Portuguese colonies are divided into 'Provincias' ruled by local governors, and 'Colonias' ruled by the military. Intermarrying with the locals is common, though conversion to Christianity hasn't been nearly as successful as it was in OTL. In fact, in the Aztec and Maya vassal states, where Portuguese control is fairly nominal, the old ways are still followed, although human sacrifice in these lands has lessenned every decade. Meanwhile, down south, the Inca of Tawantinsuyu proved too much of a match for the Portuguese, who traded access from north to south (and vice versa) for weaponry, medicines, and protection.
Islam, like Christianity, was a lot less aggressive ITTL as well. It never made it into Anatolia, where Rome still rules, and in fact the Turks ended up settling in Persia. Here the 'Ottoman Empire' holds vassalage over many minor kingdoms. In Arabia, the tribes of the desert have banded together under a 'High King' of sorts to better defend against both the Turkish spread into the Levant and the Christians in North Africa and Egypt. Likewise, the Kazakhs of the steppes have done much the same thing faced with a rapidly eastward-expanding Ukrainian empire constantly at odds with Pagan Novgorod.
In the east, the Mongols managed to create a long-lasting empire: multiple invasions and partially successful conquests have led to a fractured China. To the south is one of the Chinese Empires, which turned away from the mainland and towards the sea, conquering and assimilating (largely) the Philippines, Ryuku Islands, and Nam Viet. In the northeast, another Chinese Empire lives in near vassalage to Mongols, while dominating the centre is something of a peasant-warlord state as close to communism as one can get in the 18th Century. Japan also turned away from the continent and now holds a thriving colony on the western American coast.
As for Europe as a whole, attempted crusades have happened, but a surprisingly effective alliance between Jorvik, Norway, Denmark-Saxony, Sweden and Norway have kept the Christians at bay. Francia instead turned its attention south with ambitions to turn their North African 'empire' into a full-blown colony one day. They're also the dominant power in India and the east Indies, whereas the Pagans are more interested in trade in the east.
Any questions feel free to ask. Here be the map, as I said, set in about 1740 CE.
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Nice. Are any of the Baltic states pagan? Is East-Central Europe (Poland, hungary, that purple blob) religiously in the Francian or Byzantine camp? (Speaking of which, is the religion of Francia what we would recognize as Catholicism?)
What are those wee little states in the Berlin area?
Suggested edit for clarity: replace In fact, the Aztecs and Mayans still hold onto their old ways, although ... with In fact, in the Aztec and Maya vassal states, where Portuguese control is fairly nominal, the old ways are still followed, although...
And perhaps also the Mongols managed to unite into a cohesive unit resulting in a rather fractured China with the Mongols managed to create a long-lasting empire: multiple invasions and partially successful conquests have led to a fractured China because simply the _existence_ of a big Mongol neighbor would tend to _unify_ China more, I think.
best,
Bruce
The POD of this map is the death of Prince Casimir III in the battle of Plowce on 1331.
The Ottomans are in their height
The map only shows the Christian Nations and the Ottoman Empire, I just wonder if the Christian nations would like to crusade against the Ottomans.
I would say the Baltics are pretty thoroughly Pagan, though their own local brands have either mixed with or been replaced with the Norse Viking brand due to consistent raids and conquest. Most of central Europe is mostly mixed, with a Christian elite and Paganism still reigning supreme among the lower classes. However, the situation is somewhat reversed in areas like Jorvik, where the few Christians are treated as second class citizens for insulting the gods. Francia is probably more *strictly* Catholic than we might recognise today, but then, this is 1740. I think the rules would be harsher due to the "Heathen" threat.
A mess of petty German principalities, duchies, city-states, whathaveyou. Broken to pieces by the Francians, very Christian.
Nice tips. Done and done.
Witch0Winter
Banned
No, I don't want to steal too much, even though that setting is so freaking cool.
Really, it's more inspired by the second book, Behemoth, in which it turns out the Young Turks failed in 1908 which creates a second rebellion in 1914 that introduces a more stable Ottoman government who stays out of the war. I figure it'd be a nice POD to start with, especially as my optimistic self can hope that it means a more stable Middle East and an easier war with the Turkish Straits open to Entente shipping.Wow! Excellent map dude. Don't think I've ever seen a Viking/Celtic South Africa before.
In any case, I do have a few questions.
What's the linguistic situation in Francia like? Is it more Romance speaking with a strong Germanic influence or the reverse?
Since North Africa is still Christian, do you think Francia will be able to successfully integrate it's North African areas of influence into Francia proper?
Will there be any kind of unification movement along the lines of OTL Germany/Italy in Scandinavia's future?
Thanks!
Arkocento
Donor
So Canada didn't win, it was the UK that won the war.
Canada didn't exist as a country until long after 1820
A map in progress. Can you Guess The Scenario?!
Hint: Keep calm, children, you are safe- the westbound mountains block it away.
Just because we didn't have our own government yet doesn't mean that Canadians couldn't be counted as winners if the US gave up.
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A map in progress. Can you Guess The Scenario?!
Hint: Keep calm, children, you are safe- the westbound mountains block it away.
Zombies, though the Rockies sure didn't block them.
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