Map Thread XII

[Iserlohn]

I've completed my "alternate Israel" map from a few pages ago, nothing too fancy when compared to PlatoonSgt's excellent map, but an interesting thought exercise none the less. Enjoy! PS: Clicking it leads to the even bigger version.



EDIT: Whoops, that "U.N." near Jerusalem should be placed differently. I'll fix that soon-ish. Also I've noticed a few other things... I'll repost this tomorrow with all the fixes and a good write-up.

 

[Reagent]

Here is an old map I found lying around in my Pictures Folder.

In short, here is what I thought Africa would look like in 2014 in a World without World War I

 

[Witch0Winter]

That sounds wrong. Do you have a source on that?

I found a website that gives Saint-Domingue's population in 1788 as only 504,614 while the US population in 1800 was 5,308,483, so Saint-Dominigue had around 1/10 of the US population at the time, assuming population growth. Though it should be noted that only 27,717 whites (5.5% of the population) lived in the colony, which is what the US at the time would have counted.

 

[B_Munro]

Might look...I think Jewish Uganda is a low-probability event in any case. Wouldn't Rwanda and Burundi remain part of German East Africa?

Did Rhodesia and South Africa buy southern Mozambique or invade when Portuguese authority collapsed?

best,

Bruce

 

[Witch0Winter]

I've completed my "alternate Israel" map from a few pages ago, nothing too fancy when compared to PlatoonSgt's excellent map, but an interesting thought exercise none the less. Enjoy! PS: Clicking it leads to the even bigger version.

[snip]

EDIT: Whoops, that "U.N." near Jerusalem should be placed differently. I'll fix that soon-ish. Also I've noticed a few other things... I'll repost this tomorrow with all the fixes and a good write-up.

Well I think it's a very nice looking map, and quite an intriguing idea. Interesting take on Israel, especially for it seeming to be a pretty even-handed compromise between the Arabs and Israelis.

 

[B_Munro]

Well I think it's a very nice looking map, and quite an intriguing idea. Interesting take on Israel, especially for it seeming to be a pretty even-handed compromise between the Arabs and Israelis.

Which means both sides will hate it.

 

[Faeelin]

Mind-bending, Alternate History Geek!

In a burst of sleep-destroying energy (my lord, am I tired) I did a cover of Ephraim's map!!!

This is nice, but everyone knows Americans will be reduced to eating their dead if they don't have the constitution.

 

[Reagent]

Might look...I think Jewish Uganda is a low-probability event in any case. Wouldn't Rwanda and Burundi remain part of German East Africa?

Did Rhodesia and South Africa buy southern Mozambique or invade when Portuguese authority collapsed?

best,

Bruce

Probably right, though without Middle-East Israel (I suspect the Ottomans would cling onto Palestine) I think there is a chance for it (though there would probably be more emigration to the Americas than OTL, and ITTL's Israel may have a smaller Jewish population)

Rwanda and Burundi were reasonably different from the rest of German East Africa (though I think the base map I used showed them as separate administrative divisions of German East Africa)

Neither. Portugal experienced a financial default, and her major colonies (Angola and Mozambique) were partitioned by Germany and the United Kingdom as collateral. Germany got Angola and Northern Mozambique, while the British got Southern Mozambique (giving the portion south of the Save River to South Africa, and the portion north to Rhodesia, as both were interested in those areas). As part of the deal, the British got a railway concession through German East Africa as well.

I've completed my "alternate Israel" map from a few pages ago, nothing too fancy when compared to PlatoonSgt's excellent map, but an interesting thought exercise none the less. Enjoy! PS: Clicking it leads to the even bigger version.

EDIT: Whoops, that "U.N." near Jerusalem should be placed differently. I'll fix that soon-ish. Also I've noticed a few other things... I'll repost this tomorrow with all the fixes and a good write-up.

Looks nice, though what is stopping Egypt or Jordan from trying to annex as much of the Arab State of Palestine as they can? I also think that the "Jewish State" would start off with an Arab majority (or be really close to one), which could be problematic...

 

[Iserlohn]

Well I think it's a very nice looking map, and quite an intriguing idea. Interesting take on Israel, especially for it seeming to be a pretty even-handed compromise between the Arabs and Israelis.

Yep, that is basically what I going for. After reading how contested Galilee was and how the region was divided ethnically (with there actually being few settlements of both Arabs excluding Acre and Jews in the west, while the east was relatively full of Jews) I figured going for a a system with two contiguous states with mass removal on both sides as the most "optimal" solution.

Which means both sides will hate it.

Of course! The Arabs would've loved a corridor connecting Jaffa to the remainder of their portion of Palestine, as well as pretty much everything Hadera, while Israel would've loved to get basically everything excluding a few patches of Arab Palestine (some stuff near the Jordanian border and the Gaza strip to be exact). But luckily the Arabs and Israelis haven't blown each other up due to some sort of miracle.

Looks nice, though what is stopping Egypt or Jordan from trying to annex as much of the Arab State of Palestine as they can? I also think that the "Jewish State" would start off with an Arab majority (or be really close to one), which could be problematic...

If they wouldn't have arranged massive population transfers with Arab Palestine in order to get western Galilee cleared out, I would agree. However since I've attempted to give Israel most of the continguous land which was owned by Jewish settlers (based on this map) I think it isn't as bad as it could've been.

Also the UN is VERY serious about keeping Arab Palestine around as a buffer, so Egyptian approaches are basically blocked by UN forces stationed near the Sinai Peninsular. Jordan meanwhile was told by the British to back off of lands west of the Jordan River by promising some economic bonuses (TTL's version of the Bagdhad Pact is a lot more important).

 

[viperhawkz]

I've completed my "alternate Israel" map from a few pages ago, nothing too fancy when compared to PlatoonSgt's excellent map, but an interesting thought exercise none the less. Enjoy! PS: Clicking it leads to the even bigger version.

Now, I'm not Jewish, so my point is probably entirely moot, but if I were, the sticking point in both the OTL and this partition would be that not only does Israel not get the holiest city of Judaism and their ancient capital, in fact they don't even get to border it. As before, I'm an outsider, but I think I'd be pretty cheesed off about that.

 

[Ephraim Ben Raphael]

Now, I'm not Jewish, so my point is probably entirely moot, but if I were, the sticking point in both the OTL and this partition would be that not only does Israel not get the holiest city of Judaism and their ancient capital, in fact they don't even get to border it. As before, I'm an outsider, but I think I'd be pretty cheesed off about that.

Indeed we were quite "cheesed off" about it OTL. Didn't stop us from accepting the UN partition plan though.

 

[Major Crimson]

My North America (or Ostland, as it is know ITTL) map from my ongoing blog-TL thing;

The POD is back in the 1st century so it's obviously a very different world, North America being discovered by Norland (Norway), seeking new lands to expand into.

Note: Some of the flags come from Flag threads from several years ago so all credit goes to the creators, if anyway dosen't want me using their flag just buzz me up and I'll swap it out for a different design.

 

[viperhawkz]

Indeed we were quite "cheesed off" about it OTL. Didn't stop us from accepting the UN partition plan though.

Yes, I was slightly surprised when I learned that most Jews were in favour of that plan. Not that I think that's bad, just surprising.

 

[Ephraim Ben Raphael]

Yes, I was slightly surprised when I learned that most Jews were in favour of that plan. Not that I think that's bad, just surprising.

The Zionist movement at that time was overwhelmingly secular, and less concerned with controlling holy sites than with having an independent, internationally recognized country. We accepted the Peel Commission Plan as well in 1937, and that was for an even smaller territory.

 

[GeoJuggernaut]

I've completed my "alternate Israel" map from a few pages ago, nothing too fancy when compared to PlatoonSgt's excellent map, but an interesting thought exercise none the less. Enjoy! PS: Clicking it leads to the even bigger version.

So Israel gets all the land it never historically held, while the Muslims get all the strategic areas, and the UN is supposed to protect an enclaved Jerusalem? I hope this doesn't happen in OTL.

 

[Nick Griffalco]

My latest map. Roughly what happened in this world:

Napoleon came out on top in the Napoleonic Wars (more or less) though Louisiana was still sold to the USA, but somehow got Canada (or maybe the French always had Canada in this timeline)

Latin America still went for independence, but Argentina and Uruguay got conqured by the British, the French successfully annexed Mexico and pipettes Central America, with only Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Venezuela and Columbia gaining independence

The CSA received French support, but they're basically a French puppet state, though they (and France) prefer to think of it as a very close friendship

The USA tried and failed to reclaim the CSA, and France took Maine as consolation for defeating the Union

The Portuguese royal family relocated the heart of their empire to Brazil

America convinced Japan to open up as per OTL; however the China are also in the process of modernizing thanks to having overthrown the Manchu and Re now under to forward thinking leadership of the Liu Dynasty

Despite having lost some territory to Russia, the Chinese also managed to take a bit from the Russians as well

Germany somehow managed to unify despite all odds and have taken ov...er, I mean, temporarily partnered with Venezuela to ensure their stability (and give Germany a foot in the South American markets)

Greece is seeing a potential revival of the Byzantine Empire, funded by both France and Russia (both eager for a new puppet state. However, the Greeks are playing both powers off of each other to ensure their independence

Russia, in exchange for favorable trading arrangements, sold Alaska to Japan

 

[Jajax]

My North America (or Ostland, as it is know ITTL) map from my ongoing blog-TL thing;

The POD is back in the 1st century so it's obviously a very different world, North America being discovered by Norland (Norway), seeking new lands to expand into.

Note: Some of the flags come from Flag threads from several years ago so all credit goes to the creators, if anyway dosen't want me using their flag just buzz me up and I'll swap it out for a different design.

That Federation of the Plains is mostly mountains.

 

[dreadnought jenkins]

That Federation of the Plains is mostly mountains.

Very much this...

 

[EmperorSimeon]

My latest map. Roughly what happened in this world:

Napoleon came out on top in the Napoleonic Wars (more or less) though Louisiana was still sold to the USA, but somehow got Canada (or maybe the French always had Canada in this timeline)

Latin America still went for independence, but Argentina and Uruguay got conqured by the British, the French successfully annexed Mexico and pipettes Central America, with only Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Venezuela and Columbia gaining independence

The CSA received French support, but they're basically a French puppet state, though they (and France) prefer to think of it as a very close friendship

The USA tried and failed to reclaim the CSA, and France took Maine as consolation for defeating the Union

The Portuguese royal family relocated the heart of their empire to Brazil

America convinced Japan to open up as per OTL; however the China are also in the process of modernizing thanks to having overthrown the Manchu and Re now under to forward thinking leadership of the Liu Dynasty

Despite having lost some territory to Russia, the Chinese also managed to take a bit from the Russians as well

Germany somehow managed to unify despite all odds and have taken ov...er, I mean, temporarily partnered with Venezuela to ensure their stability (and give Germany a foot in the South American markets)

Greece is seeing a potential revival of the Byzantine Empire, funded by both France and Russia (both eager for a new puppet state. However, the Greeks are playing both powers off of each other to ensure their independence

Russia, in exchange for favorable trading arrangements, sold Alaska to Japan

Wonderful map.

 

[Nick Griffalco]

Wonderful map.

Thank you