I've tinkering with the map and run into one peculiar problem. How is the Zara region that Italy annexed during WWII supposed to be called? The placeholder name is 'Dalmatian Enclave', but that doesn't sound right.
Map Thread XI
- Thread starter Pragmatic Progressive
- Start date
- Status
Well, the Serbo-Croatian name for that area is Bukovica and Ravni Kotari, I'm not sure if there is an specifically italian name except for "Dalmazia".
So I've spend most of my (little) free time making this rather simple alt-Cold War map, with the POD somewhere in the late 30s or early 40s (basically just to set some trends). A labeled version with a more complex write-up is already planned and I hope to get that out next weekend. But just to make sure, here are a few facts about this map:
- the current date is 1975, New Year's Eve
- all Commonwealth realms are coloured and they are: the UK, Canada, Jamaica, the Bahamas, the West Indies Federation, Kenya, Australia, New Zealand, Papua-New Guinea, the Solomon Islands and Fiji
- the Soviets did worse than OTL in Eastern Europe
- there are four major power blocks: NATO (and Co.), the Comintern (includes the "Kiev Pact", TTL's Warsaw Pact), the Beijing Accords (China, Korea, Peru & Communist Bolivia) and the Non-Aligned Movement
- the current geopolitical hot spots are: the Middle East, the European Iron Curtain, the Sino-Vietnamese border and the civil war in Bolivia.
If there are any questions or feedback: They are much appreciated! See you next week at the latest
- the current date is 1975, New Year's Eve
- all Commonwealth realms are coloured and they are: the UK, Canada, Jamaica, the Bahamas, the West Indies Federation, Kenya, Australia, New Zealand, Papua-New Guinea, the Solomon Islands and Fiji
- the Soviets did worse than OTL in Eastern Europe
- there are four major power blocks: NATO (and Co.), the Comintern (includes the "Kiev Pact", TTL's Warsaw Pact), the Beijing Accords (China, Korea, Peru & Communist Bolivia) and the Non-Aligned Movement
- the current geopolitical hot spots are: the Middle East, the European Iron Curtain, the Sino-Vietnamese border and the civil war in Bolivia.
If there are any questions or feedback: They are much appreciated! See you next week at the latest
This map is a modernisation of map I did back in Map Thread VII, which is in itself an update of an ancient one from Map Thread V. Guess who it is in the style of.
This is the world of Atompunk, in the year 1975. The United States of America is embroiled in the middle of the ‘Cold War’ between it and the threatening Universal Soviet Union, with vast nuclear arsenals aimed at each other. It is closely allied with the British Empire and the European Commonwealth. The United States has changed little since the end of the Second World War in 1945, after the defeat of Nazi Germany and the meeting with the Red Army along the Vistula. The greater advance of the German Army against the Russians, reaching as far as the Volga frontier, gave the Western Allies more time to occupy territory and made the Russians seem far weaker than OTL. Within the US both economy and technology roared ahead in the immediate aftermath of the war. Technological advancement brought innovations such as the miniature nuclear reactor, advancements in robotics and (most recently) cordless telephone receivers. Blacks aren’t yet at equal rights, but they are far closer to it than any point before. The Civil Rights movement is gaining greater and greater momentum, it is believed by many that Black Suffrage to be achievable within the decade. There are also movements which turn to the more violent times of the 1960s, with frequent clashes between extremist Black supremacists and local militia, disrupting the usual happy family image America maintains abroad. It is hoped that this situation will soon be sorted out as it would the US greatly, since peace at home allows it to focus on its more troubled allies.
To put it bluntly, the British Empire is in terminal decline. After the war the British attempted to federalize their empire into a signal, global entity. However, this experiment has ended in dismal failure. The majority of its African empire has broken away from London, as have most of its Asian holdings. South Africa left the Empire to form a new Axis with Argentina whilst both Canada and Australia are turning more to the US for protection, with Britain seemingly unable to hold onto East Africa. The India Crisis, more than any other, characterised the failure of the British to maintain order within their imperial borders. Only a few spots remain under British control, and it is not known for how long. The enclaves of Lesotho and Swaziland remain loyal more due to fear of South Africa rather than any personal loyalty to the Crown, for example. The slow loss of the empire has had a severe affect on the Home Islands. Britain is currently experiencing nothing less than a crisis of confidence. Debates are raging on whether Britain should stay the course or side more closely with the US or Europe, with the later containing small but vocal elements calling for joining the European Commonwealth.
The European Commonwealth is a construct created not long after the recreation of Germany in 1950. France, realising that they couldn’t subdue Germany through force, began a policy of extensive cooperation with it and their former Italian enemies (if you can’t beat ‘em, smother them in you embrace so they can’t do anything you don’t want ‘em to). The formation of the EC in 1955 at Strasbourg was partially to foster economic and political cooperation between the states of Europe, then composing only of France, Italy, Germany, the Benelux, Austria and the Czech Republic, and to prevent future war between the former Allies and rehabilitated Axis. This they have achieved with remarkable success. A second feature was of trying to maintain their colonial empires. As demonstrated to them by the British Experience, maintaining their empires became steadily far more difficult. Instead new policies of infrastructure development and extensive colonisation were introduced. This has lead to, among other things, a Trans-Sahara Railway and large scale irrigation projects of the desert. Resistance to the European colonisers is, however, extremely high, with nationalists, communists and everything in-between attempting to drive the Europeans out (as well as their unpatriotic opponents, of course). Increasingly harsher measures are being introduced by the Europeans to maintain order, but things are quickly turning far bloodier than Strasbourg ever wanted it to be. The third reason for the formation of the EC was due to the rather disturbing events occurring on the other side of the Iron Curtain.
No one knows for sure when the transition from the Soviet Union to the Universal Soviet Union took place, since very little information leaks out of the place, but most western experts date its birth with the ascension of one Gregori Morchenko into the seat of General Secretary after Stalin’s death in 1956 and the intervention and assimilation of China during the Chinese Civil War in 1958. Ever since Morchenko’s rise things have become rather...odd. The assimilation of Russia’s Eastern European clients was only the beginning of a string of international incidents to which the West was too distracted to intervene against. This was followed quickly by a revolution in Persia and an invasion of Afghanistan. The Indian Incident of 1967 was the most recent of these incidents, where the Soviets watched as Indian nationalists fight the British for independence, only to march into an exhausted nation unopposed when the British finally withdrew. Only the arrival of American soldiers prevented the total collapse of the subcontinent. Ever since then the Universal Soviet Union has been eerily quiet, with little more than your average propaganda emanating from it calling for unity of all peoples at any cost. Yet inside its borders, many westerners would shiver at the extent of its “Revolution of the Proletariat” has gone. The renaming of cities based on numbers, with its new capital of City 1 located where Almaty once stood standing as the prime example, the pacification of the masses through propaganda and cheap distractions and the effective separation of people and party paint a frighting picture of both Orwell’s and Huxley’s worst nightmare. Yet it stands as the single most powerful state in history, with a colossal population and an army like never seen before. Many westerners fear what is being planned within halls of the United Commissariat in City 1, whether it is the final conquest of the Middle East, the invasion of Japan or the assimilation of Western Europe.
To combat the seemingly invincible enemy, the United States is forging closer alliances with both the British and the Europeans, with plans for a joint-strategic command being put into effect. And the US is not without choice in the search for new allies. The United Arab Republic is greatly angered by the Soviet intervention in the Persian Revolution “accidentally” spilling over into Iraq, nationalist agents in India work once again to free India from foreign oppression and (even though they won’t admit it) there is always the Argentine-South African New Axis. The New Axis nations were the primary ‘retirement homes’ for Nazi fleeing prosecution in Europe. Neo-Nazi’s have become rather influential in the political sphere of Argentina and South Africa, to the point where learning German can become a reliable boost to ones career. No one would ever admit with working with the New Axis, but subtleties of Nazi influence means that they are hard to ignore behind the scenes. A company might be working for a Neo-Nazi front without ever knowing about it. In the New Axis, knowing the right person is key, but knowing a veteran of the Second World War provides the greatest boost. As the Allies search for anyone to help them against the Soviets, the benefits of working with Neo-Nazi companies are becoming disturbingly tempting. And whilst the New Axis are very committed to the total annihilation of the Communist menace which kicked their superiors out of their homes, they have their own sinister agendas. A promise for silence or even amnesty could earn you a lot, from a wealth of diamonds and jewels from South Africa's slave mines to a custom pent house built in the greatly expanded Buenos Ares, not to mention the full military backing of some of the most powerful and sinister technologies to escape Berlin.
The challenges for western democracy are many, both in the form of Communist brutality to subtle influences of the Neo-Nazis. A titanic struggle seems imminent, and said struggle will be the most decisive one yet. 6 countries boast nuclear arsenals, far larger than anything in OTL. One can only hope that this Cold War will go out with a fizzle, and not with a bang.
This is the world of Atompunk, in the year 1975. The United States of America is embroiled in the middle of the ‘Cold War’ between it and the threatening Universal Soviet Union, with vast nuclear arsenals aimed at each other. It is closely allied with the British Empire and the European Commonwealth. The United States has changed little since the end of the Second World War in 1945, after the defeat of Nazi Germany and the meeting with the Red Army along the Vistula. The greater advance of the German Army against the Russians, reaching as far as the Volga frontier, gave the Western Allies more time to occupy territory and made the Russians seem far weaker than OTL. Within the US both economy and technology roared ahead in the immediate aftermath of the war. Technological advancement brought innovations such as the miniature nuclear reactor, advancements in robotics and (most recently) cordless telephone receivers. Blacks aren’t yet at equal rights, but they are far closer to it than any point before. The Civil Rights movement is gaining greater and greater momentum, it is believed by many that Black Suffrage to be achievable within the decade. There are also movements which turn to the more violent times of the 1960s, with frequent clashes between extremist Black supremacists and local militia, disrupting the usual happy family image America maintains abroad. It is hoped that this situation will soon be sorted out as it would the US greatly, since peace at home allows it to focus on its more troubled allies.
To put it bluntly, the British Empire is in terminal decline. After the war the British attempted to federalize their empire into a signal, global entity. However, this experiment has ended in dismal failure. The majority of its African empire has broken away from London, as have most of its Asian holdings. South Africa left the Empire to form a new Axis with Argentina whilst both Canada and Australia are turning more to the US for protection, with Britain seemingly unable to hold onto East Africa. The India Crisis, more than any other, characterised the failure of the British to maintain order within their imperial borders. Only a few spots remain under British control, and it is not known for how long. The enclaves of Lesotho and Swaziland remain loyal more due to fear of South Africa rather than any personal loyalty to the Crown, for example. The slow loss of the empire has had a severe affect on the Home Islands. Britain is currently experiencing nothing less than a crisis of confidence. Debates are raging on whether Britain should stay the course or side more closely with the US or Europe, with the later containing small but vocal elements calling for joining the European Commonwealth.
The European Commonwealth is a construct created not long after the recreation of Germany in 1950. France, realising that they couldn’t subdue Germany through force, began a policy of extensive cooperation with it and their former Italian enemies (if you can’t beat ‘em, smother them in you embrace so they can’t do anything you don’t want ‘em to). The formation of the EC in 1955 at Strasbourg was partially to foster economic and political cooperation between the states of Europe, then composing only of France, Italy, Germany, the Benelux, Austria and the Czech Republic, and to prevent future war between the former Allies and rehabilitated Axis. This they have achieved with remarkable success. A second feature was of trying to maintain their colonial empires. As demonstrated to them by the British Experience, maintaining their empires became steadily far more difficult. Instead new policies of infrastructure development and extensive colonisation were introduced. This has lead to, among other things, a Trans-Sahara Railway and large scale irrigation projects of the desert. Resistance to the European colonisers is, however, extremely high, with nationalists, communists and everything in-between attempting to drive the Europeans out (as well as their unpatriotic opponents, of course). Increasingly harsher measures are being introduced by the Europeans to maintain order, but things are quickly turning far bloodier than Strasbourg ever wanted it to be. The third reason for the formation of the EC was due to the rather disturbing events occurring on the other side of the Iron Curtain.
No one knows for sure when the transition from the Soviet Union to the Universal Soviet Union took place, since very little information leaks out of the place, but most western experts date its birth with the ascension of one Gregori Morchenko into the seat of General Secretary after Stalin’s death in 1956 and the intervention and assimilation of China during the Chinese Civil War in 1958. Ever since Morchenko’s rise things have become rather...odd. The assimilation of Russia’s Eastern European clients was only the beginning of a string of international incidents to which the West was too distracted to intervene against. This was followed quickly by a revolution in Persia and an invasion of Afghanistan. The Indian Incident of 1967 was the most recent of these incidents, where the Soviets watched as Indian nationalists fight the British for independence, only to march into an exhausted nation unopposed when the British finally withdrew. Only the arrival of American soldiers prevented the total collapse of the subcontinent. Ever since then the Universal Soviet Union has been eerily quiet, with little more than your average propaganda emanating from it calling for unity of all peoples at any cost. Yet inside its borders, many westerners would shiver at the extent of its “Revolution of the Proletariat” has gone. The renaming of cities based on numbers, with its new capital of City 1 located where Almaty once stood standing as the prime example, the pacification of the masses through propaganda and cheap distractions and the effective separation of people and party paint a frighting picture of both Orwell’s and Huxley’s worst nightmare. Yet it stands as the single most powerful state in history, with a colossal population and an army like never seen before. Many westerners fear what is being planned within halls of the United Commissariat in City 1, whether it is the final conquest of the Middle East, the invasion of Japan or the assimilation of Western Europe.
To combat the seemingly invincible enemy, the United States is forging closer alliances with both the British and the Europeans, with plans for a joint-strategic command being put into effect. And the US is not without choice in the search for new allies. The United Arab Republic is greatly angered by the Soviet intervention in the Persian Revolution “accidentally” spilling over into Iraq, nationalist agents in India work once again to free India from foreign oppression and (even though they won’t admit it) there is always the Argentine-South African New Axis. The New Axis nations were the primary ‘retirement homes’ for Nazi fleeing prosecution in Europe. Neo-Nazi’s have become rather influential in the political sphere of Argentina and South Africa, to the point where learning German can become a reliable boost to ones career. No one would ever admit with working with the New Axis, but subtleties of Nazi influence means that they are hard to ignore behind the scenes. A company might be working for a Neo-Nazi front without ever knowing about it. In the New Axis, knowing the right person is key, but knowing a veteran of the Second World War provides the greatest boost. As the Allies search for anyone to help them against the Soviets, the benefits of working with Neo-Nazi companies are becoming disturbingly tempting. And whilst the New Axis are very committed to the total annihilation of the Communist menace which kicked their superiors out of their homes, they have their own sinister agendas. A promise for silence or even amnesty could earn you a lot, from a wealth of diamonds and jewels from South Africa's slave mines to a custom pent house built in the greatly expanded Buenos Ares, not to mention the full military backing of some of the most powerful and sinister technologies to escape Berlin.
The challenges for western democracy are many, both in the form of Communist brutality to subtle influences of the Neo-Nazis. A titanic struggle seems imminent, and said struggle will be the most decisive one yet. 6 countries boast nuclear arsenals, far larger than anything in OTL. One can only hope that this Cold War will go out with a fizzle, and not with a bang.
Alex Richards
Donor
Interesting, and wonderfully detailed, but you have committed the Cardinal Sin of a Cornwall that extends halfway into Dorset and Somerset
.Seriously, 'South West' is a better name, with 'Wessex' or 'South Central' for the current region of that name.
Nice map, though how has Portugal lost Angola (sans Cabinda), when they retained a portion of Mozambique?So I've spend most of my (little) free time making this rather simple alt-Cold War map, with the POD somewhere in the late 30s or early 40s (basically just to set some trends). A labeled version with a more complex write-up is already planned and I hope to get that out next weekend. But just to make sure, here are a few facts about this map:
- the current date is 1975, New Year's Eve
- all Commonwealth realms are coloured and they are: the UK, Canada, Jamaica, the Bahamas, the West Indies Federation, Kenya, Australia, New Zealand, Papua-New Guinea, the Solomon Islands and Fiji
- the Soviets did worse than OTL in Eastern Europe
- there are four major power blocks: NATO (and Co.), the Comintern (includes the "Kiev Pact", TTL's Warsaw Pact), the Beijing Accords (China, Korea, Peru & Communist Bolivia) and the Non-Aligned Movement
- the current geopolitical hot spots are: the Middle East, the European Iron Curtain, the Sino-Vietnamese border and the civil war in Bolivia.
If there are any questions or feedback: They are much appreciated! See you next week at the latest
Here's a map of a wank Italy in a 1914 setting, giving all the possible bonus:
- more than successful second and third war of Italian indipendence;
- partecipation in the Prussian-French war and axis with Germany;
- Italy manages to arrive before France to puppet Tunisia, and to buy the OTL British shares of the Suez Canal, so meddling with the Egyptians;
- more successful penetration in Africa, victory in Adua, seizure of Kenya, Zanzibar and Uganda due to the British disinterest in the black continent.
- constitution of a protectorate in Atjeh, followed by Sarawak, while Siam allies with Italy defeating France in Indochina;
- During the cuban crisis, Italy intervened aside the US and seized what remained of the Spanish oversea territories;
- Italy intervened more actively in the Boxer rebellion, and gained great results;
- triumphant victory towards the Ottomans, seizing not only Libya, but also Bosnia, Cyprus, Yemen, and Kuwait (from here carving a sphere of influence in Persia).
- more than successful second and third war of Italian indipendence;
- partecipation in the Prussian-French war and axis with Germany;
- Italy manages to arrive before France to puppet Tunisia, and to buy the OTL British shares of the Suez Canal, so meddling with the Egyptians;
- more successful penetration in Africa, victory in Adua, seizure of Kenya, Zanzibar and Uganda due to the British disinterest in the black continent.
- constitution of a protectorate in Atjeh, followed by Sarawak, while Siam allies with Italy defeating France in Indochina;
- During the cuban crisis, Italy intervened aside the US and seized what remained of the Spanish oversea territories;
- Italy intervened more actively in the Boxer rebellion, and gained great results;
- triumphant victory towards the Ottomans, seizing not only Libya, but also Bosnia, Cyprus, Yemen, and Kuwait (from here carving a sphere of influence in Persia).
I like what you did with the Great Lakes. Why is New England not one of your post-communist states, though?
Dorozhand
Banned
Here is a map of the Chu Dynasty of China in 1890.
- Hong Xiuquan never becomes important and lives a life of obscurity.
- In 1849, a peasant rebellion begins in the Yangtze river valley, led by a Han Chinese minor official named Ning Anshui, versed in the histories and classics. He gathers together followers and forments open rebellion against the Qing.
- His band of men grows ever larger, and skyrockets after he manages to defeat an Imperial army sent against him in open battle. After he takes the city of Wuhan, he declares himself "King of Chu", and when he reaches Nanjing, he elevates himself to "Emperor of Great Chu", making the city his capital.
- Meanwhile, the Russians, who are still reeling from defeat in the Crimean War, see the rebellion as an excellent opportunity to regain prestige and economic prosperity. The Russians supply the rebels with weapons, including artillery and modern rifles, as well as sending military instructors. The British and French send supplies to the Qing, while the Americans stay uninterested.
- In 1856, Ning launches a northward campaign, marching all the way to the Yellow River, defeating Qing armies, while the Nien Rebellion in the north distracts them.
- In 1859, the Nien and the Chu become embroiled in an internecine war, which also allows the Qing to make advances against them. Chu asks its Russian allies to intervene. Russia attacks the Nien from the west with its regular army, and also attacks Qing from the north.
- By 1862, Qing is nearly crushed, and the Nien have collapsed. The Russians create puppet states in Mongolia and Kashgaria.
- In 1864, the Chu army defeats the last Qing resistance in the south, and enters Beijing. Ning Anshui declares this day the beginning of the Jianshun (建順) Era. A treaty is signed with Russia in which China recognizes the independence of Mongolia and Kashgaria, Russian annexation of northern Manchuria and the port of Daliang, and Russian trade rights throughout China.
- After China is secured, the Jianshun Emperor launches a campaign south into Vietnam, conquering the north from the French before signing a final peace with the British and French forces.
- Modernization of the army takes place, which allows the Chu Empire to defeat British forces in the Third Opium War during the reign of the Tianquan (天权) Emperor.
- Chu China is a staunch Russian ally and trade partner in the increasingly polarized world of the late nineteenth century...
- Hong Xiuquan never becomes important and lives a life of obscurity.
- In 1849, a peasant rebellion begins in the Yangtze river valley, led by a Han Chinese minor official named Ning Anshui, versed in the histories and classics. He gathers together followers and forments open rebellion against the Qing.
- His band of men grows ever larger, and skyrockets after he manages to defeat an Imperial army sent against him in open battle. After he takes the city of Wuhan, he declares himself "King of Chu", and when he reaches Nanjing, he elevates himself to "Emperor of Great Chu", making the city his capital.
- Meanwhile, the Russians, who are still reeling from defeat in the Crimean War, see the rebellion as an excellent opportunity to regain prestige and economic prosperity. The Russians supply the rebels with weapons, including artillery and modern rifles, as well as sending military instructors. The British and French send supplies to the Qing, while the Americans stay uninterested.
- In 1856, Ning launches a northward campaign, marching all the way to the Yellow River, defeating Qing armies, while the Nien Rebellion in the north distracts them.
- In 1859, the Nien and the Chu become embroiled in an internecine war, which also allows the Qing to make advances against them. Chu asks its Russian allies to intervene. Russia attacks the Nien from the west with its regular army, and also attacks Qing from the north.
- By 1862, Qing is nearly crushed, and the Nien have collapsed. The Russians create puppet states in Mongolia and Kashgaria.
- In 1864, the Chu army defeats the last Qing resistance in the south, and enters Beijing. Ning Anshui declares this day the beginning of the Jianshun (建順) Era. A treaty is signed with Russia in which China recognizes the independence of Mongolia and Kashgaria, Russian annexation of northern Manchuria and the port of Daliang, and Russian trade rights throughout China.
- After China is secured, the Jianshun Emperor launches a campaign south into Vietnam, conquering the north from the French before signing a final peace with the British and French forces.
- Modernization of the army takes place, which allows the Chu Empire to defeat British forces in the Third Opium War during the reign of the Tianquan (天权) Emperor.
- Chu China is a staunch Russian ally and trade partner in the increasingly polarized world of the late nineteenth century...
I was with you until you had China winning a land war and the ensuing peace deal against France.
They let it form, because if they didn't, there would be a risk of the Saxons or the Austrians using German nationalism to their own advantage and creating a greater Germany. This would be unacceptable to the UK, or to France and Poland for that matter.
The Austrians and the Saxons (or rather, their governments) would be unwilling to be a part of this German Confederation, unless they were leading it. Due to the way the Confederation is structured, that isn't possible. The Saxons have come to terms with this, and are going about creating a new identity. The Austrians have to create a new identity, due to their ethnic diversity. And the Prussians are kind of torn between wanting to lead a German Kingdom and wanting to be Prussian.
Control is very loose, there are a few tiny ports, and rather a lot of railway track, but not much else. Zeppelins are also used to sort of patrol the desert. But the natives are quite autonomous,
(How was Italy united, BTW? And how did it get so buff...
There was a revolution in the 1810s. Like the French Revolution crossed with the 1848 revolutions. It was hijacked by militaristic Bourbon king of Sicily a little war followed, and a United Italy was the result. The Bourbons were shortly afterwards overthrown by a Buenapartite faction who put a much loved general on the throne, Buenapartites are militarists, nationalists, and expansionists. They remained in power for a while, expanding Italy's holdings in the Med. When the Ottomans ran into some difficulty in the 1830s, the Italians steamrolled them due to a brilliant commander. Greece became a kingdom, in personal union with Italy, originally just Thessaly and Peleponessus. Over the years, Italy continued expanding, having wars with the Ottomans now and again. Until the Ottomans were eventually finally killed off by the Italians and Russians working together in the 1880s. The Constantinople International Zone resulted from that. Egypt stuff came afterwards.
And then going on to beat the UK...with Russian backing, it can probably prevent further French and British infiltration of its economy and destruction of it's sovereignty (that's Russia's job
), but even with the most energetic efforts at reform, I can't really see the new dynasty being up to driving the French out of North Vietnam before the 90s or 00s: given Russian interest in good relations with France, the Russians aren't going to be helpful at all in such a situation. On the other hand, Japan's unlikely to risk a war over Taiwan in 1895. Bruce
Edit: PS - I suspect the British will have moved into Tibet by this time. With the long Tibet-Kashgaria border, they'll be anxious to forestall any Russian move on India's "roof"...
And then going on to beat the UK...with Russian backing, it can probably prevent further French and British infiltration of its economy and destruction of it's sovereignty (that's Russia's job
Bruce
Edit: PS - I suspect the British will have moved into Tibet by this time. With the long Tibet-Kashgaria border, they'll be anxious to forestall any Russian move on India's "roof"...
Re: Japan, I wonder what fleet, exactly, the Chinese/Russian forces will be using. Given that historically, the Japanese defeated both nations in naval battles without really breaking a sweat, and also given that Russia's navy spent the Industrial Revolution being superseded. I'd suspect that if the Japanese make a decent showing somewhere, particularly if it's in a naval battle, the Anglo-Japanese alliance would be on the table.
What, unlike Texas
It strikes me as being a reasonable analogue for, say, Belarus, in that it has more in common than not, but at the time of the breakup they do what all the cool kids are doing.Japan's navy defeated Russia in 1904...it still has some growing to do in 1895, when it still had little in the way of large, heavy battleships. Might be able to defeat China+Russia navally in a decade or so, but by then they're probably screwed in a land battle: the fighting with Russia was financially exhausting and fairly close run on land, Russia backed with Chinese forces a fair bit stronger than OTL 1905 probably drives them into the sea.
Bruce
What, unlike Texas
The more cliché one would've been the South
but I just didn't like the idea of New England seceding. so they didn't. instead I got a Native American state and a Slavic state.
Dorozhand
Banned
You're all right that the war with France is ASB, although I would say that a defeat of hostile British action (sparking from, say, a Chu revocation of the rights granted in the Treaty of Tianjin) is somewhat possible. After all, the Qing were dealing with complete chaos at home, and fighting with an anachronistic, ill-commanded mess of an army with little morale during the Second Opium War.
The Chu Dynasty has the following advantages:
1) It is a Han ruled dynasty, in which Han commanders are in charge of Han armies. They will have good morale too, since the men have just driven out the Manchu.
2) The army is well-supplied and well-commanded (a likely situation given the success of the rebellion, which I am assuming was led by a talented military tactician).
3) There are no rebellions going on anywhere in the country, which is consolidated and stable. The Jianshun Emperor made it a point to reform the bureaucracy (with whose inefficiency he had first-hand experience). The Tianquan Emperor continued his efforts.
All this combines to make a Chu victory in the realm of possibility.
Also, with a PoD in the 1840s, the Meiji Restoration may well be butterflied. The Boshin War could have been lost entirely, or at the very least the Republic of Ezo might continue to be a thorn in Japan's side.
Although it would be really cool to have China/Russia vs. UK/Japan fighting over Korea, Manchuria, and Thibet to make East Asia a major theatre in a future world war equivalent
Last edited:
- Status