Manuel kommenos heals the chalcedonian schism

[Silver01]

Little know fact about Manuel kommenos rule is that during it the Armenians were interested in reunification with Constantinople the church of Armenia along with other this led to the council of hromkla in which the Armenians agreed to and proposed a professed their dyophysite belief while adopting the Chalcedonian terminology but the compromise never brought fruit as Manuel died and later political events and more demands from following the same rituals which Manuel had agreed to not impose stopped unification.

But what if Manuel lived longer say 3-5 years and while he doesn't reconquer Anatolia he does manage to seal the unification this means the Syriac and Armenian ( and by proxy the Coptic ) oriental Orthodox churches are back in communion with Constantinople what effects does this have on Christianity going forward and what about immediate consequences.

Manuel was some what a controversial figure for his pro latin views but I would imagine his popularity would have skyrocket and even be declared a saint for healing a 700 year schism if this does happen would Alexios II and his mom not be as hated ?

 

[Domrémy-Scorniçesti Axis]

Little know fact about Manuel kommenos rule is that during it the Armenians were interested in reunification with Constantinople the church of Armenia along with other this led to the council of hromkla in which the Armenians agreed to and proposed a professed their dyophysite belief while adopting the Chalcedonian terminology but the compromise never brought fruit as Manuel died and later political events and more demands from following the same rituals which Manuel had agreed to not impose stopped unification.

But what if Manuel lived longer say 3-5 years and while he doesn't reconquer Anatolia he does manage to seal the unification this means the Syriac and Armenian ( and by proxy the Coptic ) oriental Orthodox churches are back in communion with Constantinople what effects does this have on Christianity going forward and what about immediate consequences.

Manuel was some what a controversial figure for his pro latin views but I would imagine his popularity would have skyrocket and even be declared a saint for healing a 700 year schism if this does happen would Alexios II and his mom not be as hated ?

I think it's unlikely the two churches would reunite, since the Crusaders literally looted the wealthiest Christian city in the world 24 years after his death. Relations would improve, though.

 

[Silver01]

I think it's unlikely the two churches would reunite, since the Crusaders literally looted the wealthiest Christian city in the world 24 years after his death. Relations would improve, though.

I don't see how the crusaders sacking the city has anything to with the Oriental orthodox churches you know the Armenian, Syriac and Coptic churches
I'm not talking about healing the schism of 1054 rather the chalcedonian schism of 451

 

[Domrémy-Scorniçesti Axis]

I don't see how the crusaders sacking the city has anything to with the Oriental orthodox churches you know the Armenian, Syriac and Coptic churches
I'm not talking about healing the schism of 1054 rather the chalcedonian schism of 451

It's pretty plausible for your POD to happen.

 

[Silver01]

It's pretty plausible for your POD to happen.

Alright what impacts do you think would occur having resolved this schism would other emperors Try to also heal the east west one ?

 

[Silver01]

@Basileus_Komnenos since you know more about this period

 

[Evil Crusader]

Don't think it really is feasible long-term, unless Byzantium stays ascendant, as traditional religious Byzantine policy... well, it sucked. It tended to make enemies of most Christians, at the very least, as the events past Manuel show, inertia is not on this compromise's side.

 

[Silver01]

Don't think it really is feasible long-term, unless Byzantium stays ascendant, as traditional religious Byzantine policy... well, it sucked. It tended to make enemies of most Christians, at the very least, as the events past Manuel show, inertia is not on this compromise's side.

I mean the biggest issue was the chalcedonian terminology which got solved andronikos was just really pissed that the Armenians were not following the greek liturgical traditions but my suggestion is that if Manuel can make the decision to be ecumenical than even andronikos couldn't just dismiss it

 

[Evil Crusader]

I mean the biggest issue was the chalcedonian terminology which got solved andronikos was just really pissed that the Armenians were not following the greek liturgical traditions but my suggestion is that if Manuel can make the decision to be ecumenical than even andronikos couldn't just dismiss it

There's plenty of ways an 'ecumenical' decision can be walked back from, when there's enough will to do so. Especially if it's still fresh.

 

[Silver01]

There's plenty of ways an 'ecumenical' decision can be walked back from, when there's enough will to do so. Especially if it's still fresh.

Would there be aside from the Armenians and their ritual the same wouldn't apply to the Syriacs and unlike most compromises with the east the pope wouldn't be an issue now

 

[kasumigenx]

Perhaps Manuel can marry Eleanor of Aquitaine if his first wife dies via childbirth when she gave birth to his daughter.

 

[Silver01]

Perhaps Manuel can marry Eleanor of Aquitaine if his first wife dies via childbirth when she gave birth to his daughter.

??

 

[kholieken]

I dont think it would have much effect even if it successful and enduring. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox already have different hierarcies, followers, languages, and rites.

They likely have better relations, more intermarriage, and more economic cooperation. But effect would be minimal.

 

[Silver01]

I dont think it would have much effect even if it successful and enduring. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox already have different hierarcies, followers, languages, and rites.

They likely have better relations, more intermarriage, and more economic cooperation. But effect would be minimal.

But wouldn't the unification of the churches mean relationship with cilicia Armenian get better and that alone could have an impact?

 

[kholieken]

But wouldn't the unification of the churches mean relationship with cilicia Armenian get better and that alone could have an impact?

No ?? Byzantine had relationship with Cilician Armenia, Latin Antioch and Jerusalem, and various Muslim states. And its not like Byzantine relations with Bulgaria or Serbia is full of peace just because they both Greek Orthodox.

 

[wcv215]

But wouldn't the unification of the churches mean relationship with cilicia Armenian get better and that alone could have an impact?

Maybe, and I think that this POD would probably lead to exactly that. But...I don't think that requires mending the schism. Rather it just happens because Manuel lives longer. Without the collapse of Imperial authority following Andronikos's coup Cilicia could be more brought under Imperial control during the later years of Manuel's reign, and into his now adult, son's.

 

[Silver01]

No ?? Byzantine had relationship with Cilician Armenia, Latin Antioch and Jerusalem, and various Muslim states. And its not like Byzantine relations with Bulgaria or Serbia is full of peace just because they both Greek Orthodox.

If not mistaken didn't the bishop who push for unification was very close to the current prince and that Armenian bishop would be quite popular for successfully healing the schism,and was already chosen by the prince hence why I said wouldn't relationship between Armenia and the empire improve ?

 

[Silver01]

Maybe, and I think that this POD would probably lead to exactly that. But...I don't think that requires mending the schism. Rather it just happens because Manuel lives longer. Without the collapse of Imperial authority following Andronikos's coup Cilicia could be more brought under Imperial control during the later years of Manuel's reign, and into his now adult, son's.

So the unification of the Churches is just a bonus hmm how about later crusader history like the invasions of Egypt assuming this union last the Copts wouldn't be seen as heretics rather schismatics like the Greeks even though I don't know if that improves the Catholic view on the local christians

 

[Avrorrange]

Perhaps Manuel can marry Eleanor of Aquitaine if his first wife dies via childbirth when she gave birth to his daughter.

??

Why in the world would Manuel marry Eleanor of Aquitaine? No way he could get her lands, and no way Eleanor would give them up either. Furthermore, how does it relate to the topic at hand?

 

[kasumigenx]

Why in the world would Manuel marry Eleanor of Aquitaine? No way he could get her lands, and no way Eleanor would give them up either. Furthermore, how does it relate to the topic at hand?

Manuel and Eleanor would have solved their succession issue by marrying each other and they would have sons that would succeed in their lands as Eleanor is fertile herself and she would help with the reconciliation of the Byzantines with the pope.