Malaya What If

[Fatboy Coxy]

HIJMS Mikado and HIJMS Pinafore?

Hi Nevarinemex, I'm going to swerve that one and avoid going off subject, indeed my musing of 'The Ledge' and British Naval intelligence failing will also have to stop as we move on, everyone's getting antsy for the kick off!

 

[Fatboy Coxy]

1941, Monday 13 October;

The Lockheed Lodestar started down the runway, quickly gathering speed, her two 1200 hp Wright Cyclone engines roaring at full power. And then she was airborne, travelling light with a crew of four and one passenger. She was one of a number of this model aircraft that the ML-KNIL had purchased, to provide a passenger and cargo carrying capability for the air force. Today she was on the last leg, a short flight from Batavia to Bandung, having already flown in from Singapore.

The aircraft began to climb, the ground falling away, the horizon steadily increasing, time to raise the undercarriage. The flight would take less than an hour, they would be back on the ground before 4pm, plenty of time for a couple of drinks in the mess before dinner.

The cough of an engine induced a shudder throughout the airframe, the controls in the pilot’s hands charted the coughs progress, a small almost apologetic one, but followed by a series of quickly escalating harder coughs. The two pilots exchanged glances and then checked the dials, calling out to each other their observations. Fuel was good, no fire to be seen out the window, but the engine was struggling badly now.

A last heavy cough, and then silence, the spinning prop quickly coming to a stop, the plane now struggling to continue the climb, the controls becoming heavy in their hands, the second engine manfully trying to do the job of two. But the loss of power meant the battle over gravity was no longer a winning one, speed was dropping, and so the aircraft was descending.

The radio/navigator begins a transmission, emergency, engine failure, having to make a forced landing… The pilots fighting hard to keep the aircraft aloft, the ground coming closer. A field, look there, just a little to the side, can we ease her over, just beyond that big colonial house.

The leading edge of one wing, followed by the undercarriage caught the trees that stood before the house. The glancing blow bled off too much speed, the aircraft dropped a little more, and suddenly the house was in front of them.

The noise was terrible, a crash, come bang, come boom. An explosion, a fireball, debris flying everywhere. The sight, the sound, caught everyone’s attention, quickly people ran to help. The fire was fought, wreckage pulled away, as they searched for survivors, but none were found. Twelve bodies were recovered, seven occupants of the house, and the five from the plane, including the passenger, Lt Gen Gerardus Berenschot, Commander in Chief of the KNIL, fresh from a meeting with Lord Gort in Singapore.

A legacy of that meeting was an agreement that the Dutch would provide a camp and full facilities for jungle training for up to three infantry battalions at a time, and assist in their training, while being able to call on those troops for internal security support if required. The troops would be based around Medan and Pangkalan Brandan, Sumatra. Furthermore, the airfield at Medan would be used as an operational training base for RAF aircraft, the Dutch agreeing to improving facilities there. They would also allow the RAF to establish a seaplane base at Sabang, on the northern tip of Sumatra, to help conduct maritime patrols over the Indian Ocean. On Gort’s part, he promised the troops by January 1942 and the RAF as quickly as November 1941.

Berenschot’s replacement, Lt Gen Hein ter Poorten, lacked his skills in politics and diplomacy, and most of all his charismatic leadership. The clever trade-offs Berenschot had agreed would remain, but future new agreements would be more formal, at least in the near future, and the Dutch East Indies would be poorer for it.

 

[Ramp-Rat]

While there is no question that the British forces IOTL were to a large extent poorly led and trained, in the Far East, the changes that have taken place ITTL. Mean that the forces in the Far East, are far better trained and equipped, with a more dynamic leadership both military and civilian. While Operation Matador, to my mind the best option to disrupt a Japanese invasion, will not for political reasons take place. Some of the planned spoiling actions, such as the advance in to Thailand to destroy the road that passes through the Ledge, and disrupt the Japanese supply chain. Will take place and be persecuted with far more vigour and skill, than they were IOTL. Not only have the intelligence services been more proactive and developed a better picture of terrain along the border, but some of the officers slated to conduct the operations have had a chance to look at the terrain first hand. This along with a more disciplined higher command structure, and an improved communications system, means that when the order to implement plan X. Plan X will be implemented with speed and force, without the dithering that was seen IOTL. As I have said previously, once word is received from Hong Kong that the Japanese have crossed the border, the various plans will be implemented without delay, and should with luck catch the Japanese on the hop. Every days delay in the Japanese invasion will seriously impact their advance, and allow the British to coordinate their defence efforts. The Japanese are relying on a quick victory, and their at best shaky logistics, need the British to be constantly on the back foot, as they are very much reliant on being able to capture British supplies to support their advance. If as seems likely given the improvements made to date, they face a hard slog instead of a lightning storm through Malaya. Their inadequate logistics will rapidly collapse, and they will face the sort of conflict that they are not equipped to handle. Any conflict that becomes one of material, will always favour the Anglo Americans, as only they have the depth of resources and material to fight a long war.

RR.

 

[Cryhavoc101]

Hi Cryhavoc101, nice little video, I'm fairly sure the armoured cars are Lanchester 6x4, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanchester_6×4_armoured_car, manned by the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders.

The 'dash for the Ledge' as you put it, encapsulates the whole way the British Forces were controlled in my opinion, totally inept.

Yes they match some of the ‘light’ role Vickers machine guns (with fixed bipod) I have seen being deployed by the A&SH from the same ACs during training in Malaya pre war. I think I have shared those pictures already.

Had Brook Popham given the order earlier they might have been able to capture both ports before the Japanese had arrived with little to no resistance.

Then perhaps if their position subsequently became untenable could then have wrecked the ports plus infrastructure and conducted a scorched earth retreat blowing bridges, culverts and bringing down passes etc as they fell back on the border.

 

[Parma]

1941, Monday 13 October;

The Lockheed Lodestar started down the runway, quickly gathering speed, her two 1200 hp Wright Cyclone engines roaring at full power. And then she was airborne, travelling light with a crew of four and one passenger. She was one of a number of this model aircraft that the ML-KNIL had purchased, to provide a passenger and cargo carrying capability for the air force. Today she was on the last leg, a short flight from Batavia to Bandung, having already flown in from Singapore.

The aircraft began to climb, the ground falling away, the horizon steadily increasing, time to raise the undercarriage. The flight would take less than an hour, they would be back on the ground before 4pm, plenty of time for a couple of drinks in the mess before dinner.

The cough of an engine induced a shudder throughout the airframe, the controls in the pilot’s hands charted the coughs progress, a small almost apologetic one, but followed by a series of quickly escalating harder coughs. The two pilots exchanged glances and then checked the dials, calling out to each other their observations. Fuel was good, no fire to be seen out the window, but the engine was struggling badly now.

A last heavy cough, and then silence, the spinning prop quickly coming to a stop, the plane now struggling to continue the climb, the controls becoming heavy in their hands, the second engine manfully trying to do the job of two. But the loss of power meant the battle over gravity was no longer a winning one, speed was dropping, and so the aircraft was descending.

The radio/navigator begins a transmission, emergency, engine failure, having to make a forced landing… The pilots fighting hard to keep the aircraft aloft, the ground coming closer. A field, look there, just a little to the side, can we ease her over, just beyond that big colonial house.

The leading edge of one wing, followed by the undercarriage caught the trees that stood before the house. The glancing blow bled off too much speed, the aircraft dropped a little more, and suddenly the house was in front of them.

The noise was terrible, a crash, come bang, come boom. An explosion, a fireball, debris flying everywhere. The sight, the sound, caught everyone’s attention, quickly people ran to help. The fire was fought, wreckage pulled away, as they searched for survivors, but none were found. Twelve bodies were recovered, seven occupants of the house, and the five from the plane, including the passenger, Lt Gen Gerardus Berenschot, Commander in Chief of the KNIL, fresh from a meeting with Lord Gort in Singapore.

A legacy of that meeting was an agreement that the Dutch would provide a camp and full facilities for jungle training for up to three infantry battalions at a time, and assist in their training, while being able to call on those troops for internal security support if required. The troops would be based around Medan and Pangkalan Brandan, Sumatra. Furthermore, the airfield at Medan would be used as an operational training base for RAF aircraft, the Dutch agreeing to improving facilities there. They would also allow the RAF to establish a seaplane base at Sabang, on the northern tip of Sumatra, to help conduct maritime patrols over the Indian Ocean. On Gort’s part, he promised the troops by January 1942 and the RAF as quickly as November 1941.

Berenschot’s replacement, Lt Gen Hein ter Poorten, lacked his skills in politics and diplomacy, and most of all his charismatic leadership. The clever trade-offs Berenschot had agreed would remain, but future new agreements would be more formal, at least in the near future, and the Dutch East Indies would be poorer for it.

ahh, Berenschot, doesn't have a better fait in this world either....

 

[Ramp-Rat]

Differences between the commander structure of the Philippines and Malaya.

IMHO, the best way to think of the command structure in the Philippines, is to compare it to a medieval court, with its ruler McArthur surrounded by his couturiers, acolytes and supplicants all worshiping at the font of all reason. Unfortunately for him there are two other courts he has to accommodate, the Imperial Court in Washington, and the Admirals court in Manila, and McArthur doesn’t play nice with others. Were as Malaya is closer to an Edwardian Cabaret, with the Governor as the Prime Minister, and overseeing two Cabinets, the inner and the general. While the Governor does have to report to his King, the government in the UK, as long as he doesn’t cause a major incident, or make unreasonable demands, he is very much trusted to get on with things. And will not receive orders as what to do, except were they seriously clash with established policy, thus while a preemptive invasion of Thailand makes a lot of sense locally, it is definitely not an option as far as London is concerned.

Were as the conflict between McArthur and the local Naval Command is adversarial, the relationship between the Governor, his Military Commander, and the Commander Naval Forces Far East, is basically collegiate. They sit on the same inner cabinet, which meets regularly, and they enjoy a close respectful relationship, and are prepared to work together to resolve problems. And additionally all three have as far as is possible given political considerations, a good relationship with the local American Navel Commander. And it is only dictates from Washington and McArthur that prevent them from forming a much closer alliance. Unlike that they are forging with the Dutch Authorities to the south in the Dutch colonies. The general improvements that have been implemented are short of a complete realignment of Britain’s war time priorities, about the best that can be made with the resources available. Malaysia now has a strong component Command Structure, that is as prepared for the imminent conflict, as is possible given the circumstances. While the Command Structure in the Philippines, lacks the clarity of vision, of the threat it faces, and is too reliant on the whim of one man.

As for the situation along the Malayan West Coast, as long as the Japanese are unable to deploy regular naval forces into the region. And given that the British have established a local naval force, which while totally inadequate should it be engaged by professional naval forces. Is however composed of skilled locals, who are very familiar to with the area, and crewing third and fourth line vessels, which however are far more capable than any collection of small boats assembled by the Japanese Army. Any comparison between the small boats assembled by the British Government and Royal Naval to assist the evacuation at Dunkirk, and a collection of small local boats rounded up by the Japanese Army, to further their invasion of Malaya. The majority of the small boats impressed by the government for Dunkirk, were crewed by professional seamen, skilled in coastal water sailing and navigation. These fishing vessels and small coastal vessels, were joined by a number of private vessels, predominantly motor yachts crewed by naval reservists and their owners, who themselves were skilled in coastal sailing. They were controlled by the RN and to a large extent protected by them, the only only major threat was from the Luftwaffe, which tended to concentrate on the larger ships especially the RN’s Destroyers. Any collection of small boats assembled by the Japanese, that attempt to sail along the coast in support of their invasion, will encounter a British Flotilla of minor vessels, crewed by a mixture of older professionals, skilled reservists, and local skilled sailors. Which would quickly destroy such a hogue pudge of local boats maned by Japanese soldiers, who have dumped into small boats and sent to sea.

RR.

 

[Fatboy Coxy]

1941, Wednesday 15 October;

Park stood under the netting, sunlight filtering in through the camouflage material woven in the nets. He’d been up that morning and seen from the air how well they stood the test, and you really had to study a piece of ground to see anything. On a previous trip, he’d been alarmed at how naked the airfield was, the use of cut branches had provided a pathetic attempt at cover. However, camouflage netting from India was hard to get, and what they did get was for desert terrain! He’d been talking to Governor Caldecott about the problem, more as a need to get a frustration off his chest, when the Governor, always keen to get more war contracts for local businesses, had suggested he might have an answer. Three days later, and after a lot of work behind the scenes by the Governor, Park had met three Chinese businessmen based in Singapore, at the Governors behest, to discuss his problems. The meeting had been most rewarding.

Tentatively he had agreed to a limited number of nets, of a number of different sizes, and had been quite surprised as to the speed and quality of what had been produced. Enlarged fishing nets, strong, well made, able to be lashed down tight, and not give way to a monsoon wind, with a variety of jungle green fabrics. And at a price that made him think how much the Indian merchants had been robbing them. That was four months ago, and now they were churning them out, which was just as well, as the army had caught on, and had a seemingly voracious appetite. Having said that, the Chinese were proving up to the challenge, but hadn’t forgotten who had given them their chance and Park always got special attention, on any new request or urgent order.

All his squadrons were up to full strength on planes and pilots, twelve for the fighters, and sixteen for the bombers, although first line reserves were short, and he would have liked his second line reserves to be a lot deeper. On pilots and ground crew, he pretty much had enough, experience was their problem, a lot more training was needed to get them up to where he’d like them to be, but overall, the command was progressing well. He was also pleased with the progress on his airfields, the new dispersal areas, and aircraft pens, which under camouflage netting, enabled these very vulnerable airfields to provide good protection to aircraft. And they would need it, his radar network, although improving, was still very poor, while the AA defences around his airfields were abysmal.

Each airfield was supposed to be defended by eight heavy and eight light AA guns, which they weren’t even close to getting, let alone the fact the guns were only 3-inch, not the modern 3.7-inch and machine guns, instead of 40mm Bofors. Well, he’d had the argument about the deployment of AA resources, and although they were an army asset, he’d won, well to some extent. The newly raised Indian HAA Regts were being deployed in Malaya, many covering his airfields, and the 3rd LAA Regt HKSRA, with sixteen 40mm Bofors, organised into two batteries, the third in Aden, had been given up by the Singapore Garrison, both batteries being allocated to north-west Malayan airfields. It wasn’t a lot, but it was a start, while this netting was just what the doctor ordered.

 

[Sam R.]

I presume that the different ethnic economics are going to change the social character of pan-Malay communist movements. "Inside the tent" like UK labour?

 

[Ramp-Rat]

Another small but vital step in the ongoing process of improving the defence of Malaya and Singapore. The use of local resources to provide the camouflage netting, not only lowers the cost, but has the effect of increasing the commitment of the locals to the defence of their colony. Instead of being mostly ignored, despite their own concerns, especially among the ethnic Chinese, who had no reason to like the Japanese. They were IOTL a valuable pool of resources and personal, who were often ignored, until it was too late to make proper use of them. Not only does this initiative provide work for a community that was very much on the margins of society, especially in Malaya. It also serves to promote them in the eyes of the administration, and if only in a small way gives them a voice. This initiative will make it much harder for the Japanese to attack the vital airfields, that are so important to the defence of Malaya and Singapore. I am assuming that unlike the British who are engaged in aerial reconnaissance of the Japanese airfields in Thailand, the Japanese are not so engaged in aerial surveillance of the British airfields in Malaya and Singapore. It’s all well and good receiving reports from spies on the ground about the various improvements to the airfields, being made. But without photographic support, all you can do is make marks on a map, you can not provide your pilots with a visual aid, so that they have some idea of what they are looking at when they attack. As with the land assault, so too the air assault, the Japanese are relying on a quick and overwhelming victory in the first round, they can not afford to become involved in a prolonged conflict, against a foe that has far more resources to draw upon. And the efforts to camouflage the airfields, only serve to make the Japanese effort much harder, as once again it must be remembered that the Japanese are now facing a much better prepared enemy than they did IOTL, or they have faced during their campaign in China. The Japanese, Germans and Italians started the war with one question foremost in their minds, how do we avoid losing, whereas for the Americans, British and Soviets the question was, how do we win. In Malaya the question for the Japanese is increasingly how do we win, given the amount of grit that the British are adding to the area, that will seriously impede the Japanese efforts, and better camouflage nets are just one more example of grit.

RR.

 

[Parma]

war contracts for local businesses, had suggested he might have an answer. Three days later, and after a lot of work behind the scenes by the Governor, Park had met three Chinese businessmen based in Singapore, at the Governors behest, to discuss his problems. The meeting had been most rewarding.

Tentatively he had agreed to a limited number of nets, of a number of different sizes, and had been quite surprised as to the speed and quality of what had been produced. Enlarged fishing nets, strong, well made, able to be lashed down tight, and not give way to a monsoon wind, with a variety of jungle green fabrics. And at a price that made him think how much the Indian merchants had been robbing them. That was four months ago, and now they were churning them out, which was just as well, as the army had caught on, and had a seemingly voracious appetite. Having said that, the Chinese were proving up to the challenge, but hadn’t forgotten who had given them their chance and Park always got special attention, on any new request or urgent order.

There were some good construction/machine shops on Java too, Machinefabriek Braat NV and Nederlands Indische Industrie. They were producing boilers, small track train and tram material, refinery equipment, bridges and other steel contructions. Braat porcuded a kind of armored cars, based on the Chevrolet cab over chasis trucks for the KNIL.

 

[Cryhavoc101]

1941, Wednesday 15 October;

Park stood under the netting, sunlight filtering in through the camouflage material woven in the nets. He’d been up that morning and seen from the air how well they stood the test, and you really had to study a piece of ground to see anything. On a previous trip, he’d been alarmed at how naked the airfield was, the use of cut branches had provided a pathetic attempt at cover. However, camouflage netting from India was hard to get, and what they did get was for desert terrain! He’d been talking to Governor Caldecott about the problem, more as a need to get a frustration off his chest, when the Governor, always keen to get more war contracts for local businesses, had suggested he might have an answer. Three days later, and after a lot of work behind the scenes by the Governor, Park had met three Chinese businessmen based in Singapore, at the Governors behest, to discuss his problems. The meeting had been most rewarding.

Tentatively he had agreed to a limited number of nets, of a number of different sizes, and had been quite surprised as to the speed and quality of what had been produced. Enlarged fishing nets, strong, well made, able to be lashed down tight, and not give way to a monsoon wind, with a variety of jungle green fabrics. And at a price that made him think how much the Indian merchants had been robbing them. That was four months ago, and now they were churning them out, which was just as well, as the army had caught on, and had a seemingly voracious appetite. Having said that, the Chinese were proving up to the challenge, but hadn’t forgotten who had given them their chance and Park always got special attention, on any new request or urgent order.

All his squadrons were up to full strength on planes and pilots, twelve for the fighters, and sixteen for the bombers, although first line reserves were short, and he would have liked his second line reserves to be a lot deeper. On pilots and ground crew, he pretty much had enough, experience was their problem, a lot more training was needed to get them up to where he’d like them to be, but overall, the command was progressing well. He was also pleased with the progress on his airfields, the new dispersal areas, and aircraft pens, which under camouflage netting, enabled these very vulnerable airfields to provide good protection to aircraft. And they would need it, his radar network, although improving, was still very poor, while the AA defences around his airfields were abysmal.

Each airfield was supposed to be defended by eight heavy and eight light AA guns, which they weren’t even close to getting, let alone the fact the guns were only 3-inch, not the modern 3.7-inch and machine guns, instead of 40mm Bofors. Well, he’d had the argument about the deployment of AA resources, and although they were an army asset, he’d won, well to some extent. The newly raised Indian HAA Regts were being deployed in Malaya, many covering his airfields, and the 3rd LAA Regt HKSRA, with sixteen 40mm Bofors, organised into two batteries, the third in Aden, had been given up by the Singapore Garrison, both batteries being allocated to north-west Malayan airfields. It wasn’t a lot, but it was a start, while this netting was just what the doctor ordered.

Nice

If he has introduced dispersed airfield layout and revetments as well as dispersal and dummy sites with decoys/dummy aircraft and the odd hanger queen then that should make the IJAAF problems much harder in trying to destroy R*AF assets on the ground

We know that the Luftwaffe attacked the wrong airfields all the time during the BoB and the British were not really trying initially

 

[stubear1012]

I am really enjoying this timeline. In another timeline on this website, the British setup an evacuation of important Chinese, Malay, and Indian businessmen/politicians and their families. By saving these families from the Japanese occupation, it created a more pro British political environment after the war.

I do not know if you want to include something like this in your timeline.

 

[Fatboy Coxy]

1941, Thursday 16 October;

They were in a private dining room, in the Windsor Hotel, Melbourne, just the two of them, dinner with a nice couple of big lamb chops each and a glass of St Hubert’s Cabernet Sauvignon, an Australian wine that he’d never heard of. It wasn’t too bad, in fact it was quite passable. Gort leaned forward, a cut of lamb, ready on his fork, “So tell me Vernon, how is Bennett with the promotion?” Lt Gen Vernon Sturdee, Chief of the Australian General Staff, gave a small smile, “As expected Tiger, he didn’t like it, didn’t like it one bit, but he’s made so many enemies, pretty much no one is siding with him, how can he complain about a promotion they say, no he’s alone on this. I pity the officers serving under him, I’ll expect a rash of transfer requests in the next few months. How are you getting along with Syd”

Gort finished chewing through his mouthful of lamb, savouring the taste. “Rowell is excellent, has fitted in well with everybody, with him on board I’m much happier promoting a pre-emptive push into Thailand. In my mind, that’s clearly the key to holding Malaya, it buys time for Godwin-Austen to have his Indians ready, and hopefully enough reinforcements from Britain. By the way, thank you for supporting Syd by sending all those second line reinforcements for the Australian Eighth”.

“Well, if you do get the authority to launch such a venture, I want my Australian Division to be as ready as it can be, because the whole affair could get very brutal. And speaking of brutal, how you going to swing it with Churchill, I’m told he’s almost impossible to work for, more wine Tiger”. Gort nodded, chewing through another mouthful, as Sturdee emptied the bottle into his glass, careful to leave the dregs at the bottom. He looked around at a small waitress, smartly dressed, standing against a far wall, “Another bottle please Lily”. The maid curtsied, “Certainly sir” pleased he had remembered her name.

Gort dabbed his mouth with his napkin, and cleared his throat, “Well it won’t be easy that’s for sure, I’m not Churchills favourite, I’m still working off the penance for my perceived failings in France, but I tell you what Vernon, I’m not going to let him hang me out to dry with any vague orders, it will be my decision or he will have to take responsibility for what happens. So, changing the subject, how well did my meeting go with Prime Minister Curtin today, will he support us?”

“Well, you’ve certainly got his attention Tiger, that speech you made about Singapore being the frontline defence of Australia, and the need to support the Dutch better, you were very direct with Australia needing to do more. I’ve only met him a few times, but he’s not one to hang about, if something needs doing, he’ll do it. But remember, he’s Australian, and proud of it, Australia first is his cry, so be mindful of what you ask of us”.

“Yes, message received and understood, so what will he do about supporting the Dutch, some of their garrisons on the outer lying islands desperately need shoring up, you have no more troops to send, the last of the AIF, the 27th Brigade is in Malay with the rest of the 8th Division now. Are you going to raise more AIF troops?”

The door opened and the waitress returned, bottle in hand. “Would you like me to open it General” Sturdee grunted, swallowing a mouthful of lamb. The waitress deftly pulled the cork out with her corkscrew. “Ah thank you Lily, that’s lovely just leave it there my girl”. The waitress placed the wine bottle on the table, bobbed, and walked back to her station, by the wall, thrilled to be in the presence of such dignitaries. She’d never served anyone so important, and if it wasn’t for Elizabeth going sick, she wouldn’t have had the opportunity, oh wait till she got home and told mum and dad.

“Some more wine Tiger?”, Sturdee held the bottle close to Gort’s glass, offering to pour. “Yes, please Vernon, where does it come from, it’s quite good you know”. Sturdee poured wine into the cut glass, turning the bottles neck by a turn of his wrist to stop a drip, then he turned to refill his own glass. “Yarra River valley, they’ve been growing grapes down there for over 75 years, getting quite good at it now.

I don’t think we’ll raise another AIF contingent, its morally wrong that we rely on volunteers to do all the work defending the nation, no there’s a lot of talk about making the conscripted militia do more, although that’s going to take some changes to the law to allow us to use them as garrison troops in the Dutch East Indies. By the way that’s terrible news about that Dutch fellow’s death, Berenschot, the plane was a Lodestar wasn’t it, I think that’s a similar plane to the one in the Canberra air disaster that Brudenell White and those ministers were lost in August a year ago. Does make you think twice before taking off in one of those. What are the Dutch going to do, who’s going to replace him?

“It’s a disaster Vernon, a bloody disaster, Berenschot was very good, if he said he would do something, he did it, no having to remind him, I felt we were very much working off the same page. Oh, I know he had the interests of the Dutch first, at heart, but he understood us as well, had an easy manner about him. Lt Gen Hein ter Poorten has replaced him, he’s about as exciting as old bread, blunt and dour, he will be so much harder to work with. Poorten will continue whats been agreed but don’t expect too much initiative from him. Yes, it’s terrible news indeed”.

“Well, look, listen Tiger, old chap, keep me posted on how things are going with your discussions with Churchill, I can have Curtin put some pressure on him, after all its our boys that would be going into the lion’s mouth so to speak”. “Thank you, Vernon, I’ll do that, that would be most helpful, cheers” and they clinked glasses before draining them, both well on their way to getting thoroughly plastered.

 

[kelgar04]

although that’s going to take some changes to the law to allow us to use them as garrison troops in the Dutch East Indies

Thats going to be a double edged sword if they don’t have time to both shake off the dust when they get their and brought up to standard in local comditions.

 

[lgkmas]

Don't sell the Militia short. It was 39th Bn. Militia, that fought the Japanese to an eventual standstill on the Kokoda track. They weren't a push over. It just needs a commanding officer interested in training and fighting the powers that be to make it happen. 53rd Bn, Militia, was used as stevedores in Port Moresby and had little chance to do individual training, let alone collective training and they did fare badly as a consequence.

 

[Ramp-Rat]

And so two Gentlemen have over a congenial lunch, resolved a number of contentious subjects. Which is by far the best way to do things, as neither man has to take a position in front of others, without getting a feel of the ground. The most contentious, the status of Bennett has been resolved, and there is not going to be a major backlash. The question of being able to send Australian conscripts overseas has been raised, and an acceptable solution is being grouped towards. There is no way that the majority of Australian politicians will accept that conscripts can be generally be made to serve outside Australia. The compromise that they may be deployed as garrison troops in the islands to the north, but not to fighting formations, might just be acceptable. IOTL this started with the deployment of Australian Militia formations to Papa New Guinea, and might without too much resistance be extended to the minor islands of the DEI. While Gort is right that militarily the sensible action is a preemptive strike into Thailand is the correct course of action, he is showing his political ignorance. The British government is set on being seen to be the victim of Japanese aggression, and a preemptive strike will see him dismissed from his position. Hopefully the Governor who is more politically astute, will have the sense to stop him, without causing a serious loss of face. I do however have one small nit pick with the post, given the era that they are sitting down for lunch. I personally believe that the chops would have been Mutton or possibly Hogget, and odds are well done, Lamb didn’t become a thing in Australia, New Zealand and Britain, until the sixties.

RR.

 

[vetinari]

And so two Gentlemen have over a congenial lunch, resolved a number of contentious subjects. Which is by far the best way to do things, as neither man has to take a position in front of others, without getting a feel of the ground. The most contentious, the status of Bennett has been resolved, and there is not going to be a major backlash. The question of being able to send Australian conscripts overseas has been raised, and an acceptable solution is being grouped towards. There is no way that the majority of Australian politicians will accept that conscripts can be generally be made to serve outside Australia. The compromise that they may be deployed as garrison troops in the islands to the north, but not to fighting formations, might just be acceptable. IOTL this started with the deployment of Australian Militia formations to Papa New Guinea, and might without too much resistance be extended to the minor islands of the DEI. While Gort is right that militarily the sensible action is a preemptive strike into Thailand is the correct course of action, he is showing his political ignorance. The British government is set on being seen to be the victim of Japanese aggression, and a preemptive strike will see him dismissed from his position. Hopefully the Governor who is more politically astute, will have the sense to stop him, without causing a serious loss of face. I do however have one small nit pick with the post, given the era that they are sitting down for lunch. I personally believe that the chops would have been Mutton or possibly Hogget, and odds are well done, Lamb didn’t become a thing in Australia, New Zealand and Britain, until the sixties.

RR.

PNG was effectively part of Australia, along with it's other territories. The Militia was always able to operate there. It was not until 1944 that they were able to operated outside of Australia and it's territories as far north as the equator and then in 1945 the legislation was changed to enable them to operate as far north as 23 degrees above the equator. The AIF was specifically raised to overcome these limitations and could operate anywhere in the world. The Militia were by 1944 as able as the AIF for the most part as far as ability was concerned.

 

[HMS St.Lawrence]

Now less than 10 days before Prince of Wales sails for the Far East. The countdown is about to begin.

I wonder what are the whereabouts of His Majesty's aircraft carriers those days...

 

[Cryhavoc101]

Don't sell the Militia short. It was 39th Bn. Militia, that fought the Japanese to an eventual standstill on the Kokoda track. They weren't a push over. It just needs a commanding officer interested in training and fighting the powers that be to make it happen. 53rd Bn, Militia, was used as stevedores in Port Moresby and had little chance to do individual training, let alone collective training and they did fare badly as a consequence.

39th was an excellent example of what the Aussies could do using WW1 veterans in command and NCO positions - but it took 2nd AIF desert Veterans (16 officers) in command positions to turn it into the Japanese killing machine that it became in PNG and obviously that could not happen until those men had returned in numbers and had time to assimilate into the Militia units.

The Commando units also did well

 

[diesal]

Sadly
Around the Great Depression in the 1920s all vineyards in the Yarra Valley reverted to other agricultural pursuits, nonetheless St Hubert’s was one of the first to replant in 1966, championing the rejuvenation of the Valley as one of Australia’s great cool climate regions. It was partially due to phylloxera and changing tastes, they still have problems with phylloxera today which is why it is a control region.