Maid of Norway, Queen of Scotland: A Plantagenet Britain Timeline
- Thread starter pandizzy
- Start date
Tbh medieval royals didn't care so much about titles and styles as modern or early modern royals. Margaret and Edward's children would likely be referred to by contemporaries as Lord/Lady *insert first name here* until they're given a title of their own (for the boys) or married (for the girls). In fact Edward I was known simply as Lord Edward prior to his father's death. They may be referred to in later historiography though as *insert first name* of *insert birthplace* like how Edward II was known as Edward of Carnarvon or his sisters were called Elizabeth of Rhuddlan, Joan of Acre, and Mary of Waltham, or as *insert first name* of England.
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Great chapter! I love how you humanize the girls with the mention of 'flowering' and them not knowing what it meant. Also, as a fellow woman, my dearest condolences to Elsbeth, lol. I hope Margaret at least exchanges a decent amount of letters with her little sibling; they at least can try to bond that way. And she can certainly send some nice presents their way!
Ah your first period is such a strange time. I literally didn't realise I had it even though my mother explained it THOROUGHLY until two days after it began, I went to my mom and said "Mom... something is happening" and she was like 'MY BABY GIRL IS A WOMAN"
Lmao I was too chickenshit to tell my mom when it happened (tbf I was also older, 15 to be exact, so I knew what was going on)
I was 12 and in my father's house for his weekend (yay divorce!) but I kept quiet until I got home on sunday night.
I am well aware of that. I said it as an example of how the queen could just dump titles on her kids. Couldn’t be bothered to do research on what potential unused titles her kids could have.
Depends.Appelations are always quite informal. Charles of Anjou, Charles of Valois etc were all born sons of the mainline Capetian kings. They were known as of Anjou, of Valois for example because of their title, not where they were born or who their father was.
That is true.
I am well aware of that and? The issue was that none of these grandchildren has a mother who was a monarch in her own right. Better example is how her own children was actually called.
Because their dad was already king the moment they were born? The ambiguity here is what if their dad wasn’t king until much later?Contemporaries like the Navarrese showed that it’s either the House name or the queen’s kingdom.BTW, it seems that the kids of Queen Urraca of Leon/Castile were called of [insert kingdom] as well instead of after their father’s title(like of Galicia) or their father’s house(of Burgundy).
Of Scotland would be a fine appellation too.Same with birth places.You do what you want, all I am saying is that using their mother’s title as the basis for their appellation isn’t actually something that wasn’t done when the father was of a lower rank personally when the kids are born.
Prince Albert frequently referred to himself as Duke of Saxony. I am well aware of the fact that he is of the Saxe-Coburg and Gotha branch, and his brother/father is formally title Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. Not sure if the title of Duke of Saxony is something like Archduke of Austria where all cadets get to use.IIRC, the guy once had a rant to Queen Victoria about how being the ‘Duke of Saxony’ was better than being the Duke of Norfolk etc or something after being snubbed by the British peers.
It’s not a last name in the sense we use right now.Like you have royals called of Gaunt, of Woodstock,of Bordeaux etc. There was much informality around it.It also changes depending on the perception and rise in one’s station.I really doubt people would be calling Richard of Bordeaux anything other than Richard of England after he acceded to the throne for example.
There you go, we came to the same conclusion.
Okay.So Falcon (who was the only one mentioning the prince of wales' children aka not a lot of folks) wasn't telling me to follow the example of Prince William. She was just mentioning the fact that royalty does it and that it can change to fit the most recent situation, ergo the examples are still invalid.
Also, also, in my conversation with VV, he very much said they would probably use the term of England or wherever they happen to be born. I just said otherwise, because I actually prefer the term of Wales and he isn't here to defend himself rip
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Oh boy, the girls are getting to that age! Poor Margaret will learn soon lol.
I hope Margaret can see her father and brother one day. I can’t imagine that he’d miss her wedding at least, for it would be a very rare wedding, of one between two monarchs.
I hope our boy Bobby will be ok! Don’t kill him off! It sure would boost his reputation if he did well and fought heroically even without armor.
I hope Margaret can see her father and brother one day. I can’t imagine that he’d miss her wedding at least, for it would be a very rare wedding, of one between two monarchs.
I hope our boy Bobby will be ok! Don’t kill him off! It sure would boost his reputation if he did well and fought heroically even without armor.
awww what a sweet look at the relationship between Margaret and her father! Hopefully the battle goes well, with King Edward there I imagine it must...
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
Could someone (knowledgeable about said OTL war) give a brief summary on what’s changed so far (in this respect)?
OTL was far messier.Instead of Edward I marrying Constance of Aragon, and betrothing his daughter to Louis, he ‘married’ Blanche of France instead, with the same condition of letting Philippe take control of Aquitaine for 40 days( I have no idea why this is actually a term).Instead of actually marrying Blanche of France to Edward as promised however, Philippe married Blanche of France to Rudolf I of Bohemia and kept Aquitaine.Eventually he ended up marrying Blanche’s younger sister as part of the peace.Edmund also died a bit later. The man died in the midst of personally leading English forces in Aquitaine. I think Edward I in this timeline was also able to better support the Flemish than otl.
Would love to see Philip getting punished as the dishonourable cur that he was.
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Its cause in 40 days you get the income tax for an entire month and the revenue for a month. Also 40 days is a good number in chriatianity.
It made little sense to just hand the entire duchy to him instead of just giving him the income.Plus not entirely sure what was the point IOTL when you are meant to be getting a dowry from Philip.
Cause you bowed down and gave it to him so Philip looks like the magnanimous kong and benevolent when he (supposedly) gives it back.
Also the name of Edward's second wife is Yolande. Constance is their daughter's name.
Was this actually a popular practise at the time? I feel like this was asking for treachery. I remember that my mind melted when I first read about the actual event in real life.That said, the scale of Philip’s treachery was shocking.
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Chapter XXXIII - The Long Farewell
August 1295. Windsor Castle, England.
The Queen had come to visit her children, as both royal heirs had been moved to Windsor after an outbreak of smallpox in Kings Langley. Isabella de Beauchamp, the royal governess, watched them in silence as the Queen and her Aragonese attendants played with the little children, a smile on all their faces.
Lady Constance of Windsor was two with round blue eyes and her younger brother, Henry, was just one, crawling around the room with childish wonder. They were healthy and well-cared for. Isabella had made sure of that. Who knew what would happen to her if something were to occur for these two babies? They had entrusted her with them and it would threaten her financial independence to have such trust broken.
“Your papa has had a great victory,” Queen Yolande told Lady Constance. “His men in Mortagne captured Charles of Valois, King Philip’s own brother. This is a step closer to seeing you become Queen of France, my baby.”
Constance did not seem to care. She was only two, showing her mother her many dolls that her father’s vassals had gifted her. Yolande sighed and took them all, though, as soon as her child looked away, she handed them over to an Aragonese attendant.
The Queen looked at Isabella and the young governess looked back, giving her a shy curtsy.
“I won’t be able to see them for long, Mistress Beauchamp,” she said. “I hope you’ll care for them in my absence. With a mother’s care.” She smiled. “In fact, I don’t know when I shall return. It could be many years indeed.”
“Oh?” Isabella frowned. “Has something happened?”
“I intend to join my husband in the war,” Queen Yolande said. “Where my king goes, there is my kingdom. And a queen must be in her kingdom.” She laughed as young Henry began to pull on her dress, but quickly gestured for a lady to take him away. The Queen looked at Isabella again. “Do you understand what I have asked of you?”
“Yes, Your Grace,” Isabella said.
Edinburgh Castle, Scotland.
“What is it like?” Margaret asked, sharing a bed with Elsbeth. The two whispered together beneath the covers, as the others slept in cots laid on the floor. It was the only way they could discuss it, because Lady Egidia thought the topic was improper for conversation. “To be a woman.”
Elsbeth smiled. “It’s strange,” she admitted. “Messy, even. I wasn't expecting so much blood. And for it to be constant too. It lasts for almost a week. Lady Stewart had me wear these rags to catch it every time.”
“It doesn’t stop?”
“Not until it stops completely, then it comes again the next month,” Elsbeth said. Margaret nodded. She had always thought that becoming a woman would mean you bleed once, then it stopped until it was time again. She had not imagined it was constant.
Although she understood now why her friend was so embarrassed about it. To bleed at every moment for an entire week? It sounded like a nightmare. She supposed she ought to be thankful that it hadn’t happened to her yet, though it would eventually. Although, she was only twelve and if she were to be like Elsbeth, it would be another two years before it did.
“Now you’re a woman,” Margaret murmured. “You can bear children for Robert.”
“Lady Stewart said that I will only be married to him in truth when I’m sixteen,” Elsbeth answered. “She said it’s too dangerous to get pregnant before then.”
“I suppose that makes sense,” said Margaret. It was nothing she hadn’t heard before many times over. “But it will probably be a long way before they win the war and return.” Even if they had captured the French king’s own brother, there was still much to be conquered before they felt comfortable enough to sue for peace. At least, that was what her tutor said when teaching her about laws. Wars were expensive and drawn-out. You wouldn’t want to sign a treaty without being sure it was suitable to you.
“How long do you think we’ll have to wait?” Elsbeth asked, her eyes glazed over with love for Robert. Just fourteen, she was already in love with her husband.
“I don’t know,” Margaret said in a long voice. “Years, maybe.”
“But time runs fast,” Elsbeth murmured. “That’s what my mother used to say. The years go by quickly and before you know it, there is no need to wait anymore.”
Margaret smiled. “I hope so,” she said and they began to giggle for no reason at all before someone hushed them. Then, they giggled even more before finally going to sleep.
