Look to the West (Thande's first proper timeline, and it's about time!)

[Nicksplace27]

Ooo, this is getting even better. Good work as always Thande.

 

[MrP]

Jolly interesting, old man. I agree with Umbric that this is increasing my knowledge of the politics of this period more than anything we covered in school!

 

[Thande]

Jolly interesting, old man. I agree with Umbric that this is increasing my knowledge of the politics of this period more than anything we covered in school!

Well yes, but so would doing practically anything

 

[MrP]

Well yes, but so would doing practically anything

Hey, this bottle of Scotch is improving my understanding . . . by melting away what I was mistaught in school.

 

[rcmcciii]

I found this from a reference in TABAE. It took a while but it was worth it. Very good keep it up.

 

[EvolvedSaurian]

Very nice stuff Thande!

I presume you have something planned with the Ulster Scots? Mass emigration to America, perhaps?

 

[LadyCowles]

Very good stuff, Thande! And haven't you already said that this won't be a Britwank, the British Empire being a reaction to losing the American colonies, etc? And, of course, we have the Republic of Superia, which means that the ENA doesn't cover all of USA/Canada....

Anyway, jolly good stuff!

 

[Cromm Crúaich]

Excellent update.

 

[Umbric Man]

And, of course, we have the Republic of Superia, which means that the ENA doesn't cover all of USA/Canada....

How depressing.

 

[Roberto]

Oops, I missed this. Great update Thande, even though I'm most likely ignorant of the effects of it (being as unaware of British politics as I am).

 

[Gladi]

Very good stuff, Thande! And haven't you already said that this won't be a Britwank, the British Empire being a reaction to losing the American colonies, etc?

Well considering things written in TABAE2, one can get feeling that no British Empire is Thande's idea of a Britwank.

 

[Thande]

Well considering things written in TABAE2, one can get feeling that no British Empire is Thande's idea of a Britwank.

I've read that five times and I still don't follow, so could you try that again?

 

[Roberto]

I've read that five times and I still don't follow, so could you try that again?

I think he said that... erm, he's trying to say, that, um.... okay, I'm lost too.

EDIT: I guess maybe he thinks that your idea of the best-off possible Britain would be one with no colonies.

 

[Ed Costello]

Ah, Fort Rockingham returns! I'm sure there's a Series episode just waiting to be written involving that place and the horrors within...
...like the British Government!

“It is better to let dissenters inside your house, as then they are less inclined to try and set it on fire.”

I can't believe no-one's commented on this yet...

 

[Susano]

I've read that five times and I still don't follow, so could you try that again?

Isnt that fairly clear? Ive understood it on the first read, but maybe thats because Im a continental furriner as well
What he said is that in your stories (according to him, personally I couldnt verify or falsify that) Britain is better off if it doesnt have its colonies. Hence, you not giving them those colonies (like in India), while strengthening Britain itself (by, say, binding ireland closer to it) is a Britwank - in the context of your judgement. So to say...

...actually, Im not sure if that made it clearer...

Anyways, I disagree. As said, North America and Africa - thats ample an Empire!

 

[Thande]

Isnt that fairly clear? Ive understood it on the first read, but maybe thats because Im a continental furriner as well
What he said is that in your stories (according to him, personally I couldnt verify or falsify that) Britain is better off if it doesnt have its colonies. Hence, you not giving them those colonies (like in India), while strengthening Britain itself (by, say, binding ireland closer to it) is a Britwank - in the context of your judgement. So to say...

...actually, Im not sure if that made it clearer...

Anyways, I disagree. As said, North America and Africa - thats ample an Empire!

Well, the thing is, this TL has no British Empire. Unless you want to try and claim somewhere like Denmark in 1901 counts as an empire. The only crown colonies are Freedonia, a couple of other places in West Africa, British Honduras, the British West Indies, and the Mosquito Coast (and those last three are liable to be sucked up into the ENA).

There's the ENA, but that's like Ireland - aligned with Britain, shares a monarch, but it doesn't take orders from London anymore, or at least not automatically.

Meanwhile India, Guinea and Natal are all run by the EIC or the RAC, neither of which are under the control of the British Government.

The only way this is a Britwank - and if then only to the same extent as OTL - is if you regard wankage as cultural rather than political. I.e. by that argument the USA counts as a positive rather than a negative for Britwank because it helps boost the English language and also disassociates it from a single political entity. But by that argument, the 18th and early 19th centuries in OTL were a Germanwank, because of the sheer number of German settlers in the USA and the ensuing cultural influence. And I think people would find it hard to regard that as a 'wank' by any normal definition.

 

[Roberto]

Well, the thing is, this TL has no British Empire. Unless you want to try and claim somewhere like Denmark in 1901 counts as an empire. The only crown colonies are Freedonia, a couple of other places in West Africa, British Honduras, the British West Indies, and the Mosquito Coast (and those last three are liable to be sucked up into the ENA).

There's the ENA, but that's like Ireland - aligned with Britain, shares a monarch, but it doesn't take orders from London anymore, or at least not automatically.

Meanwhile India, Guinea and Natal are all run by the EIC or the RAC, neither of which are under the control of the British Government.

The only way this is a Britwank - and if then only to the same extent as OTL - is if you regard wankage as cultural rather than political. I.e. by that argument the USA counts as a positive rather than a negative for Britwank because it helps boost the English language and also disassociates it from a single political entity. But by that argument, the 18th and early 19th centuries in OTL were a Germanwank, because of the sheer number of German settlers in the USA and the ensuing cultural influence. And I think people would find it hard to regard that as a 'wank' by any normal definition.

You have good points. Maybe Glad meant.... I don't know, I can't interpret his comment into anything that makes sense...

 

[Archangel]

Excellent as usual, Thande!

Part #61: British Isles Political Roundup
...
Unilaterally, Wesley abolished the Disenfranchising Act of 1728, which had set down in law that Catholics could not vote in Ireland. This did not mean that Catholics could stand as MPs, but it did mean that those among the Catholic population who fulfilled the property requirements[5] could vote for sympathetically-minded, reformist Protestant MPs – of which there were not a few. Despite further protests, the election went ahead in July 1801 and returned an Irish Parliament as reform-minded as the one in Westminster, though like Britain’s it still had a large number of strong-minded conservatives. The respected Grattan became leader by default as Wesley relinquished some of his powers, thus leading to the first creation of an Irish ‘prime minister’. From 1801 to 1808 (elections were held every seven years) the Parliament legislated continuously to rescind and abolish some of the anti-Catholic strictures that had been put in place in previous years. It was a ripe time for reform, as the British Government and the King both sympathised with at least limited compensation and were not as obstructive as would have been if this had come at an earlier time.[6]

In particular, the Grattan ministry ended restrictions on Catholic education (allowing education overseas, and for Catholics to study at Trinity College Dublin), inter-religious marriages, and the creation of a militia allowed the ownership of firearms by non-Anglicans, which was particularly controversial...

The now Duke of Mornington did well.

With his attempts to improve the Catholics’ situation, Wesley had deprived the Irish of a natural scapegoat, and Protestant dissenters such as Presbyterians (especially since Presbyterians had made up such a large percentage of the USE) often took their place. As far as the Constitution of 1802 was concerned, people in Ireland were either Anglican or Catholic, and that was that.

Looks like there may be some different (Presbiterian) Irish Troubles in the future.

According to his own notions that Republican France was still an improvement over the war-mongering and ideologically absolutist Bourbon Royalist France that the British had fought for so long, Fox abandoned Louis XVII and sought peace with Lisieux.

A very bad move by Fox.

The chief reforms of the Foxite government were the abolition of the slave trade (1802), voting reform to reduce property requirements and increase the franchise (1804, taking it down to twenty shillings) and the establishment of the Borough Committee.
...
The eventual compromise proposed by Burke was that the new Committee would study each borough in turn, and if it was found to be rotten, that borough would be transferred to a new town rather than abolished. That meant the standing MP would then represent, for example, Manchester instead of Old Sarum. This achieved cautious support, though the transferred MPs often then left Parliament anyway to go to their new constituency and set up a new party machine there to ensure their re-election. A surprising number of them succeeded.

A very clever way of parliamentary reform, combining peacefully personal and public interests.

The establishment of Fort Rockingham near Doncaster was also the brainchild of Dundas, though he was supported by many of the conservative opposition. Few of even the most paranoid anti-Foxites, however, realised how significant this would be….

Dundas measure will mean the survival of Britain.

 

[Rekjavik]

It is good to see Wellington, or Mornington as I should call him, is making an appearance that will have grand ramifications, he was always like that. Great stuff Thande.

But I do find that one aspect of the TL is missing, the Prusso-Saxon War. For a devastating war that led to the failure to crush Jacobin France early on, the death of the Holy Roman Empire and the invasion of Britain there seems to be a lack, or total absence, of any information on it. Could you write a post on it soon, or do you already have a post ready and are just waiting for the right time to post it.

Other than that, fantastic work.

 

[Thande]

It is good to see Wellington, or Mornington as I should call him, is making an appearance that will have grand ramifications, he was always like that. Great stuff Thande.

But I do find that one aspect of the TL is missing, the Prusso-Saxon War. For a devastating war that led to the failure to crush Jacobin France early on, the death of the Holy Roman Empire and the invasion of Britain there seems to be a lack, or total absence, of any information on it. Could you write a post on it soon, or do you already have a post ready and are just waiting for the right time to post it.

Other than that, fantastic work.

You're right, of course. It's just that it kept slipping to the bottom of my pile of bits of Europe to update. It will come either next, or the one after that if I write the bit about America first.