Logistics of a liberation of the UK

[Kung Fucious]

Putting this here since it's more a military question that (arguably) relies on ASB intervention, but I'm fine with the thread being moved if need be.

Basically, what it says on the tin. Assuming some kind of successful SEALION/SEALION-esque campaign (that is, a successful invasion and occupation of the British Isles), what would a possible liberation of the UK look like by the US and Remnant/Loyalist British militaries? Where would said invasion be staged from? Ireland seems like the obvious choice, but would the Irish declare for the WAllies, remain neutral, or throw in the with the Reich to avoid invasion?

Would a liberation of the UK even be possible, given the resources the US, Canada, and the remaining Commonwealth nations had on hand (assume that the US has basically all the resources it was able to deploy in OTL's Western theater, up to and including OVERLORD, DRAGOON, and the invasion of Italy)?

For fun, feel free to speculate on what a "second SEALION" by the Red Army would look like.

 

[Livius wannabe]

What about an invasion of France via Spain to cut the Germans off resupply?

Anyway I think the WAllies would probably sacrify more of continental Europe to the Soviets to concentrate on Britain and France.

 

[Helicon One]

If the UK is controlled by Axis forces it is highly unlikely that Ireland is going to be left on the table as a wide open door in the defences for the remaining Allies to stage from, it'll likely be outright occupied too (unless Ireland is somehow able to resist the Axis military where the UK fell, which is a whole new level of butterflies beyond a successful Sealion).

Is it realistic for landing craft to sail from Iceland or even the west coast of the US/Canada?

 

[Lost Freeway]

If the UK is controlled by Axis forces it is highly unlikely that Ireland is going to be left on the table as a wide open door in the defences for the remaining Allies to stage from, it'll likely be outright occupied too (unless Ireland is somehow able to resist the Axis military where the UK fell, which is a whole new level of butterflies beyond a successful Sealion).

Why would Germany invade Ireland?

 

[jsb]

Why would Germany invade Ireland?

They have to invade the north to complete the conquest of GB, after that the south is easy and almost inevitable if they perceive a threat from the new world....

 

[docfl]

Stage from Iceland. Didnt a lot of the troops from Tourch come direct from the us

 

[Baron Bizarre]

If the UK is controlled by Axis forces it is highly unlikely that Ireland is going to be left on the table as a wide open door in the defences for the remaining Allies to stage from, it'll likely be outright occupied too (unless Ireland is somehow able to resist the Axis military where the UK fell, which is a whole new level of butterflies beyond a successful Sealion).

ASBWI: What if Sea Lion succeeded and the Germans tried to occupy the Republic of Ireland, but the Irish not only successfully resisted the invasion but then went on to liberate the UK singlehandedly?

 

[Kung Fucious]

Stage from Iceland. Didnt a lot of the troops from Tourch come direct from the us

Is Iceland feasible? Would it not be too long of a trip?

 

[Theoretical_TJ]

Iceland to Ireland strikes me as the main candidate. Then Ireland to Britain. Alternately you see Dragoon then Allied Sealion. You pretty much cede everything East of France East to Communist puppets in this scenario and you likely get a North and South Norway.

 

[AbeLincoln1865]

Iceland to Ireland strikes me as the main candidate. Then Ireland to Britain. Alternately you see Dragoon then Allied Sealion. You pretty much cede everything East of France East to Communist puppets in this scenario and you likely get a North and South Norway.

If Britain falls, so does the Suez.

 

[Obergruppenführer Smith]

Frankly, invading from Iceland might be plausible.

Now, this might seem ASB, but you have to realize that UK managed to do what it did because it had a global trade network behind it. With just simple food it was essentially importing more than all of Europe to feed its population. Given how much Germany screwed intra-Europe trade with its invasions, the conquest of UK only means mass famine, severely degrading productivity and defenses.

In a brutal "realistic" POV, you only need to starve the Germans before sweeping in.

 

[Apollo 20]

Assuming Ireland is under Axis control, you will probably still have the Faroe and Shetland Islands to work from. From there, it's a question of how long it takes for the US to crank out a ton of ships and train enough personnel to support an invasion through Scotland. Two problems with Sealion were the Royal Navy's strength and the lack of proper landing vessels. Here, the Royal Navy will have moved on to Canada and the US had an industrial capacity far exceeding Germany. The US would not be doing this alone; you would have a number of Commonwealth countries providing troops with the US arming and supplying them. While I'm not saying this would be easy, it sounds a lot more feasible than the Germans pulling it off because of the vast disparity in resources and industrial capacity, despite the much greater distances involved. Note that this all puts the US in the war a full year earlier than OTL; the utter necessity of acting militarily to preserve Canada and whatever footholds it could grab in the North Atlantic would have demanded it. So, the US is on a full war footing by late 1940/early 1941 with an earlier full military mobilization and sense of emergency. In this scenario, the war in the Atlantic will come first, with all that implies for the allocation of resources. The US will, for purposes of its own defense, have to act decisively to effectively occupy the Canadian Maritimes, Newfoundland and Labrador, Greenland and Iceland plus whatever else it could grab. All British possessions in the Western hemisphere like Jamaica, the Bahamas and Bermuda are going to be protectorates of the United States, lest the Germans gain a place from which to hold an airbase and sub base. Note, too, that the US is going to have to prioritize ASW out of all this, so you will have an extra year of development of equipment and techniques. You will also get an extra year for the US to work on large long range bombers and transport aircraft, which will pay dividends down the road in being able to bomb strategic targets in the UK and Europe. Once the US and Allies get a foothold in Scotland, it's a matter of time before they conquer the UK.

 

[Helicon One]

Why would Germany invade Ireland?

Why wouldn't they?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Exactly. Why after destroying every other democratic nation in Western Europe except Switzerland would Hitler leave the last democratic nation free, when he could so easily take it when he occupies Ulster?

 

[FillyofDelphi]

Putting this here since it's more a military question that (arguably) relies on ASB intervention, but I'm fine with the thread being moved if need be.

Basically, what it says on the tin. Assuming some kind of successful SEALION/SEALION-esque campaign (that is, a successful invasion and occupation of the British Isles), what would a possible liberation of the UK look like by the US and Remnant/Loyalist British militaries? Where would said invasion be staged from? Ireland seems like the obvious choice, but would the Irish declare for the WAllies, remain neutral, or throw in the with the Reich to avoid invasion?

Would a liberation of the UK even be possible, given the resources the US, Canada, and the remaining Commonwealth nations had on hand (assume that the US has basically all the resources it was able to deploy in OTL's Western theater, up to and including OVERLORD, DRAGOON, and the invasion of Italy)?

For fun, feel free to speculate on what a "second SEALION" by the Red Army would look like.

Possible? Yes. Desirable?...

That's less clear. Considering the US is basically running the show at this point, they're going to want to limit diversions as much as possible and make as direct a drive from Germany as possible. Considering the lack of their unsinkable aircraft carrier/mustering ground, I imagine this would take the form not of a cross-channel invasion but likely something more closely resembling Anvil-Dragoon: landing on the French mainland and liberating it first. Nazi positions in Britian, like Japanese positions on the non-vital islands in I-H, could be isolated and left to wither

 

[Maeglin]

If the Germans somehow succeed with Sealion, I think your best bet is liberation from the Soviets. A Western Europe that is *totally* under German control is going to encourage isolationist sentiments in the US - there is no longer any point in the US sending aid to Britain, which means Germany has no need to go after American shipping.

(Incidentally, potential German reasoning for not going after Ireland? Don't provoke a key part of the US voting public when that portion of the voting public is currently less sympathetic to Britain).

 

[Bernard Woolley]

I'd wait until the atomic bomb/B-36 combination are ready and then bye, Germany.

 

[calvinhobbesliker]

Stage from Iceland. Didnt a lot of the troops from Tourch come direct from the us

Why not? Despite Ireland and other neutrals pretending that both sides were equally evil, the Nazis would have no problem invading a neutral nation to secure its territory.

 

[Theoretical_TJ]

A Western Europe that is *totally* under German control is going to encourage isolationist sentiments in the US

I disagree with this, because a unified Europe IS stronger than the USA, and a Germany that takes over Britain (especially by my preferred way - betrayal from within) will also have a mighty navy that can threaten/bully US interests.

 

[TRH]

I disagree with this, because a unified Europe IS stronger than the USA, and a Germany that takes over Britain (especially by my preferred way - betrayal from within) will also have a mighty navy that can threaten/bully US interests.

Who would be in a position to betray the Empire, when Moseley and other fascists were all interned?