List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II

[isabella]

Philip IV of Burgundy m. Joanna of Castile

1) Philip of Spain and Burgundy m. a) Mary Tudor, b) Jeanne d'Albret
2) Charles V HRE - as OTL
3) Isabella - as OTL
4) Ferdinand - as OTL
5) Mary - as OTL
6) Catherine - as OTL

The OTL marriages here make zero sense. Plus Mary, obviously, can not marry as OTL if Louis died earlier.
Male Eleanor is likely to go in Spain with Philip and Joanna so will end under Ferdinand II’s custody. In this case Charles V would get Burgundy (as the Burgundian Eststes would name Charles as their new Duke once was clear who Philip would remain in Spain) and I have no idea of what Ferdinand could receive as he would be based in Spain

 

[TheBeanieBaron]

Edward VIII (1864-1942) m. Mary of Teck (1867-1953)

1) Elizabeth II (1894-1944) m. Luis Fernando of Spain (1888-1945)
2) Mary (1897-1965) m. Frederik IX of Denmark (1899-1972)
3) Victoria (1900-1960) m. Olav V of Norway (1903-1991)

I think Victoria should marry someone else, as Olav V is her cousin. Perhaps an ATL son of Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands could work?

Also, I’ll be interested in seeing what George, Duke of York’s family looks like ITTL.

 

[eliamartin65]

Prompt: James IV of Scotland marries Bianca Maria Sforza (Sorry for torturing your eyes @eliamartin65 with this one)

James IV of Scotland (b. 1473 d. 1513) m. Bianca Maria Sforza (b. 1472 d. 151)

1. James V of Scotland (b. 1488 d. 1524) m. Margaret Tudor (b. 1489 d. 1541)
2. Mary of Scotland (b. 1489 d. 1543) m. Archibald Douglas, 6th Earl of Angus (b. 1489 d. 1557)
3. Alexander Stewart, Duke of Ross (b. 1490 d. 1514) [1] m. Françoise d'Alençon (b. 1490 d. 1550)
4. Stillborn Son (b. 1492 d. 1492)
5. Margaret of Scotland (b. 1493 d. 1506)
6. Isabel of Scotland (b. 1494 d. 1531) m. Antoine, Duke of Lorraine (b. 1489 d. 1544)
7. Robert of Scotland (b. 1496 d. 1500)
8. Anne of Scotland (b. 1500 d. 1548) m. Henry II of Navarre (b. 1503 d. 1557)

[1] His uncle dies earlier.

Yuck!

I did NOT need this after coming back from uni....

 

[BoleynBuff]

Yuck!

I did NOT need this after coming back from uni....

Look on the bright side. Maxi is free.

 

[eliamartin65]

Look on the bright side. Maxi is free.

But we all know Emma doesn't exist

 

[Nova_Philomena]

Yuck!

I did NOT need this after coming back from uni....

sorry Elia 😭

 

[eliamartin65]

sorry Elia 😭

You owe me one.

 

[Nova_Philomena]

You owe me one.

I do, I know

 

[isabella]

Another tree, WIP as usual (I do not know if I will do more for this scenario)… POD, I guess Hoche being arrested before marrying his OTL wife instead of just after it…
A reworked version of the trees for that scenario


Carlo Maria Buonaparte (1746-1785) married Maria Letizia Ramolino (b. 1749) in 1764

1. Joseph (b. 1768) married Marie Julie Clary (b. 1771) in 1794 with issue
2. Napoleon (b. 1769) married Bernardine Eugénie Désirée Clary (b. 1777) in 1795 with issue
3. Lucien (b. 1775) married Catherine Christine Eléonore Boyer (1771-1800) in 1794 and Marie Laurence Charlotte Louise Alexandrine de Bleschamp (b. 1778) in 1802 with issue by both
4. Marie Anne Elise (b. 1777) married Felice Pasquale Baciocchi (b. 1762) in 1797 with issue
5. Louis (b. 1778) married Maria Luisa of Spain, Dowager Queen of Etruria (b. 1782) in 1804 with issue
6. Marie Pauline (b. 1780) married Charles Victoire Emmanuel Leclerc (b. 1772) in 1797 with issue
7. Caroline Marie Annunciata Bonaparte (b. 1782) married Joachim Murat (b. 1767) in 1800 with issue
8. Jérôme (b. 1784) married Elizabeth Patterson (b. 1785) in 1803 with issue

Marie Josèphe Rose Tascher de la Pagerie (b. 1763) married a) Alexandre François Marie, Viscount of Beauharnais (1760-1794) in 1779, b) Louis Lazare Hoche (1768-1797) in 1794

1. a) Eugène Rose de Beauharnais (b. 1781) married ??
2. a) Hortense Eugénie Cécile (b. 1783) married Géraud Christophe Michel Duroc (b. 1782) in 1800 with issue
3. b) Louis ?? Hoche (b. 1795) married Letizia Bonaparte (b. 1798)
4. b) Anne Désirée Rose Hoche (b. 1797)

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Philip IV/II (1478-1525) Duke of Burgundy, Holy Roman Emperor, m. a) Joanna of Aragon (1479-1505), b) Elizabeth of England (1492-1550) [1)

1a) Eleanor (1498-1558) Queen of Castile & Aragon (?), m. John III (1502-1557) King of Portugal

2a) Isabella (1500-1558) m. Anthony (1489-1541) Duke of Lorraine

3a) Mary (1501-1526) m. Christian II (1481-1559) King of Denmark, Norway and Sweden

4a) Margaret (1503-1564) m. Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland

5a) Joanna (1505-1558) m. Louis II (1506-1537) King of Bohemia and Hungary

6b) Charles V (1509-1531) Duke of Burgundy, Holy Roman Emperor 1525, m. Anna of Bohemia and Hungary (1503-1555)

7b) Philippa (1511-1566) m. Henry IX (1511-1551) King of England [2]

8b) Maximilian II (1514-1571) Holy Roman Emperor 1531, m. Anna of Cleves (1515-1557)

9b) Philip (1516-1517)

10b) Catherine (1518-1549) m. Francis II (1518-1562) Duke of Milan [3]



[1] Daughter of Henry VII, survived childhood ITTL

[2] Oldest son of H8 and CoA survived infancy.

[3] Son of Bona and Massimiliano Sforza.

 

[FalconHonour]

Who?

She could go to a surviving Charles Orlando.

Edmund de La Pole, OTL Duke of Suffolk and Yorkist claimant. I'm not entirely thrilled about the age gap, but I figure if Henry is dead and has left four young daughters behind - Margaret would be eleven when her father died and little Katherine twenty-one months - the English are going to allow the match rather than risk another outbreak of Civil War.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Edward VIII (1864-1942) m. Mary of Teck (1867-1953)

1) Elizabeth II (1894-1944) m. Luis Fernando of Spain (1888-1945)

why the name? OTL she could be named for her mother. But Victoria would insist on the great-granddaughter being named after her (she threw an absolute hissy fit when Vicky's first daughter wasn't named after her)

Secondly, how does she become queen if she's married to a Catholic?

Edward I of England (b. 1239 d. 1307) m. Eleanor of Castile (b. 1241 d. 1290) and Margaret of France (b. 1279 d. 1318)

1. Katherine of England (b. 1261 d. 1300) m. Robert II, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1248 d. 1306)
2. Joan of England (b. 1265 d. 1314) m. Alexander IV of Scotland (b. 1264 d. 1313) [1]

will marry Hartmann of Habsburg (son of Rudolf I) who was promised her younger sister (Joan of Acre) OTL

1. John II of England (b. 1266 d. 1321) m. Elizabeth of Aragon (b. 1271 d. 1336)

will marry Jeanne, Queen of Navarre, who his younger brother, Henry, was promised to OTL

1. Henry Plantagenet, 1st Earl of Cornwall (b. 1268 d. 1315) m. Mahaut of Artois (b. 1268 d. 1329)

likely weds Yolande of Dreux (OTL queen of Scots), Longshanks tried to marry her both after Leonor died and after her Scots' husband died. Her objection was his age.

1. Eleanor of England (b. 1269 d. 1298) m. Henry III, Count of Bar (b. 1259 d. 1302)
2. Margaret of England (b. 1271 d. 1319) m. James II of Aragon (b. 1267 d. 1327)
3. Berengaria of England (b. 1272 d. 1307) [1] m. Gilbert de Clare (b. 1243 d. 1295)

doubtful. Edward I was furious when Joan married Gilbert OTL because he was trying to arrange a Savoyard match for her

1. Alphonse, Earl of Norfolk (b. 1273 d. 1330) m. Marie de Lusignan (b. 1273 d. 1331)

likely still gets paired off with Margaret of Holland or Philippa of Flanders

1. Mary of England (b. 1275 d. 1333) [2] m. John II, Duke of Brabant (b. 1275 d. 1312)
2. Elizabeth of England (b. 1276 d. 1328) [3] m. Hugh de Courtenay (b. 1276 d. 1340)

what benefit does Courtenay bring to England?

1. Alice of England (b. 1278 d. 1341) [4] m. Frederick IV, Duke of Lorraine (b. 1282 d. 1328)

match up with one of Adolf of Nassau's sons/grandsons was being considered when she'd come of age for marriage. Depending on how the Habsburg marriage of her older sister worked out, she could easily end up as Adolf's (grand)daughter-in-law instead

1. Beatrice of England (b. 1278 d. 1316) [5]
2. Matilda of England (b. 1282 d. 1230) [6] m. John I, Count of Holland (b. 1284 d. 1314)
3. Edward Plantagenet, 1st Earl of Kent (b. 1284 d. 1327) m. Alice de Toeni (b. 1284 d. 1325)

Why does Longshanks remarry with four sons

1. Thomas of England (b. 1300 d. 1338) [7]
2. Edmund of England (b. 1301 d. 1330) [8]
3. Eleanor of England (b. 1306 d. 1372) m. Peter II of Sicily (b. 1304 d. 1342)

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Another tree, WIP as usual (I do not know if I will do more for this scenario)… POD, I guess Hoche being arrested before marrying his OTL wife instead of just after it…
A reworked version of the trees for that scenario


Carlo Maria Buonaparte (1746-1785) married Maria Letizia Ramolino (b. 1749) in 1764

1. Joseph (b. 1768) married Marie Julie Clary (b. 1771) in 1794 with issue
2. Napoleon (b. 1769) married Bernardine Eugénie Désirée Clary (b. 1777) in 1795 with issue
3. Lucien (b. 1775) married Catherine Christine Eléonore Boyer (1771-1800) in 1794 and Marie Laurence Charlotte Louise Alexandrine de Bleschamp (b. 1778) in 1802 with issue by both
4. Marie Anne Elise (b. 1777) married Felice Pasquale Baciocchi (b. 1762) in 1797 with issue
5. Louis (b. 1778) married Maria Luisa of Spain, Dowager Queen of Etruria (b. 1782) in 1804 with issue
6. Marie Pauline (b. 1780) married Charles Victoire Emmanuel Leclerc (b. 1772) in 1797 with issue
7. Caroline Marie Annunciata Bonaparte (b. 1782) married Joachim Murat (b. 1767) in 1800 with issue
8. Jérôme (b. 1784) married Elizabeth Patterson (b. 1785) in 1803 with issue

Marie Josèphe Rose Tascher de la Pagerie (b. 1763) married a) Alexandre François Marie, Viscount of Beauharnais (1760-1794) in 1779, b) Louis Lazare Hoche (1768-1797) in 1794

1. a) Eugène Rose de Beauharnais (b. 1781) married ??
2. a) Hortense Eugénie Cécile (b. 1783) married Géraud Christophe Michel Duroc (b. 1782) in 1800 with issue
3. b) Louis ?? Hoche (b. 1795) married Letizia Bonaparte (b. 1798)
4. b) Anne Désirée Rose Hoche (b. 1797)

I liked the other version you made where Murat became Josephine's third husband

 

[Dragonboy]

Another tree, WIP as usual (I do not know if I will do more for this scenario)… POD, I guess Hoche being arrested before marrying his OTL wife instead of just after it…
A reworked version of the trees for that scenario


Carlo Maria Buonaparte (1746-1785) married Maria Letizia Ramolino (b. 1749) in 1764

1. Joseph (b. 1768) married Marie Julie Clary (b. 1771) in 1794 with issue
2. Napoleon (b. 1769) married Bernardine Eugénie Désirée Clary (b. 1777) in 1795 with issue
3. Lucien (b. 1775) married Catherine Christine Eléonore Boyer (1771-1800) in 1794 and Marie Laurence Charlotte Louise Alexandrine de Bleschamp (b. 1778) in 1802 with issue by both
4. Marie Anne Elise (b. 1777) married Felice Pasquale Baciocchi (b. 1762) in 1797 with issue
5. Louis (b. 1778) married Maria Luisa of Spain, Dowager Queen of Etruria (b. 1782) in 1804 with issue
6. Marie Pauline (b. 1780) married Charles Victoire Emmanuel Leclerc (b. 1772) in 1797 with issue
7. Caroline Marie Annunciata Bonaparte (b. 1782) married Joachim Murat (b. 1767) in 1800 with issue
8. Jérôme (b. 1784) married Elizabeth Patterson (b. 1785) in 1803 with issue

Marie Josèphe Rose Tascher de la Pagerie (b. 1763) married a) Alexandre François Marie, Viscount of Beauharnais (1760-1794) in 1779, b) Louis Lazare Hoche (1768-1797) in 1794

1. a) Eugène Rose de Beauharnais (b. 1781) married ??
2. a) Hortense Eugénie Cécile (b. 1783) married Géraud Christophe Michel Duroc (b. 1782) in 1800 with issue
3. b) Louis ?? Hoche (b. 1795) married Letizia Bonaparte (b. 1798)
4. b) Anne Désirée Rose Hoche (b. 1797)

Looks amazing

 

[isabella]

I liked the other version you made where Murat became Josephine's third husband

Their wedding would surely end in divorce after a few years. And I started to doubt of the will/opportunity of “Josephine“ remarrying again after being widowed by a much loved husband who was as also a national hero, so I choose to give her children also with Hoche and then marry one of them with a child of Napoleon and Desirée instead of pairing the poor Eugene with Caroline

 

[kasumigenx]

Henry II m. Eleanor of Aquitaine(a)

1a. William, Count of Poitiers b. 1153 d. 1156

2a. Henry III of England b. 1155 m. Margaret of France ann. 1183(a) Gisele of Swabia(b)[1]

3a. Matilda of England b. 1156 m. Henry the Lion

4a. Richard I, Duke of Aquitaine b. 1157 m. Berengaria of Navarre[2]

5a. Geoffrey II, Duke of Brittany b. 1158 m. Constance, Duchess of Brittany

6a. Eleanor of England b. 1162 m. Alfonso VIII, King of Castile

7a. Joan of England b. 1164 m. William II of Sicily(a) Valdemar II of Denmark(b)[3]

8a. John, King of Ireland b. 1166 m. Isabel de Clare

1.With surviving issue in the second marriage, he is the one who goes to the crusades as King of England

2. Does not devote himself to crusades so he is able to sufficiently consummate his marriage to have children with Berengaria which causes Aquitaine remain a separate fief from England under France.

3. With surviving issue in the second marriage.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Another return of Piasts:


Janusz III (1502-1526) Duke of Mazovia, m. Katarzyna Radziejowska

1) Konrad IV (1525-1557) Duke of Mazovia, m. Zofia Jagiellonka (1522-1575)

1) Bolesław VI (1548-1600) Duke of Mazovia 1557, King of Poland 1572, m. Maria Maximiliana of Bavaria (1552-1614)​

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2) Zygmunt (1550-1555)​

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3) Kazimierz/Casimiro (1551-1603) Duke of Bari and Rossano [1] m. Margherita Gonzaga (1564-1618)​

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4) Katarzyna (1553-1609) m. Albrecht Friedrich (1553-1618) Duke of Prussia​

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5) Janusz IV (1556-1581) Duke of Mazovia​

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6) Zofia (1558-1611) m. Henri III (1551-1599) King of France [2]​

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7) Anna (1562-1624) m. Ferdinand (1529-1595) Archduke of Tyrol​

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[1] Bona Sforza was not poisoned ITTL and lived longer (maybe she would spend her last years in Mazovia rather than in Italy, with daughter and grandchildren, if she is still conflicted with her son) and passed her Italian inheritance to grandson. Considering the fact, that even Polish Vasas tried to regain her duchies of at least financial compensation it seems likely, that Bona's Piast descendants would be interested in Bari and Rossano too.

[2] Considering the fact, that Elizabeth of Sweden was considered for Henri (at the time, when Vasas were still seen as parvenu dynasty) Zofia of Mazovia is decent choice for Queen of France (and unlike Elizabeth Vasa she is at least Catholic).


@Zygmunt Stary
How do you see development of Piast realm? Jagiellons had hereditary Lithuania, Piasts have hereditary Mazovia (and may have both, as Zygmunt August could make his nephew GDL). Mazovia is not GDL, but still has some advantages: is not in danger of being conquered by Muscovites, and, that is propably the biggest advantage, numerous nobility of Mazovia was regalist and very loyal to their dynasty.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Zofia of Mazovia is decent choice for Queen of France

we sure? Even with Maria Leszczynska- a descendant of Anna of Mazovia- the French commented "one does not even know who her grandparents were".

 

[Salma Amer]

King Sebastian of Portugal has a twin brother


Joao IV, King of Portugal (b. 1554-1600) m Sibylle of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1557-1628)

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Sebastian II, King of Portugal (b. 1576-.) m Claude of Lorraine (b.1575-.)​

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Joao V, King of Portugal (b. 1595-.) m Anna of Spain (b.1601-.) with issues ​

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Maria Sibylla (b. 1599-.) m Charles I, King of England and Scotland (b. 1600-.) with issues​

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Alfonso, Duke of Guarda (b.1603-.) m Maria Farnese (b.1603-.) with issues​

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Catharina (b. 1579-.)m Philip III of Spain (b. 1578-.)​

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Philip IV of Spain (b. 1600-.) m Elizabeth from France (b.1602-.) with issues​

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Anna (b.1601) m Joao V, King of Portugal (b. 1595-.) with issues ​

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Maria Claudia (b.1603-.) m Louis XIII, King of France (b. 1601-.) with issues​

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Catherine (b.1607-.) m Ferdinand III, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1608-.)​

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Carlos Infante Cardinal (b. 1610-.)​

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Isabella (b. 1612-.) m Fernando II de' Medici, Duke of Toxana(b. 1610-.) with issues​

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Joao, Duke of Beja (b. 1584-.) m Eleanor de Medici (b. 1591-.)​

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Diego, Duke of Beja (b.1610-.) m Luisa de Guzmán(b.1613-.) with issues ​

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Maria Sibylla (b. 1612-.) m Joao, Duke of Braganza (b.1604-.) with issues ​

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Christina Claudia (b.1619-.) ,nun​

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[Jan Olbracht]

we sure? Even with Maria Leszczynska- a descendant of Anna of Mazovia- the French commented "one does not even know who her grandparents were".

Quite different situation. Zofia of Mazovia has royal blood in her veins, with recent Jagiellon and Habsburg ancestors, unlike Leszczyński family . Add Sforza's blood and claims to Milan. Maria's father meanwhile wasn't even among biggest magnates of PLC and his royal title was disputed. Also 16th century Poland is not 18th century Poland. It is still regional power.

Zofia is no worse than Maria de Medicis.