List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II

[Nova_Philomena]

Richard II of Aquitaine, Holy Roman Emperor b. 1209 m. Margaret of Flanders(a)

1a.William XI of Aquitaine b. 1226 m. Sanchia of Provence

1a?a.Richard III of Aquitaine b. 1246 m. Constance of Bearn

1a?a?a.William XII of Aquitaine b. 1270 m. Violant of Castile[1]

1.Replaces the place of the IOTL marriage of Eleanor of Castile, same purpose to stabilize the succession of Gascony.

Holy Roman Emperor?

 

[kasumigenx]

Holy Roman Emperor?

He still gains the title of the Holy Roman Emperor in the interregnum ITTL.

 

[Nova_Philomena]

He still gains the title of the Holy Roman Emperor in the interregnum ITTL.

oh so Richard of Cornwall.

Like the tree btw

 

[kasumigenx]

oh so Richard of Cornwall.

Like the tree btw

Yes.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

How do we know he was? Sigismund was pretty consistent in bumping up Albert.

ISTR reading that this was the case. And given that the Hungarians basically made Albrecht promise he wouldn't go for the purple IIRC, I don't see them accepting/supporting another king-emperor

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

ISTR reading that this was the case. And given that the Hungarians basically made Albrecht promise he wouldn't go for the purple IIRC, I don't see them accepting/supporting another king-emperor

Well, they made Albrecht promise and Albrecht took the purple anyway, so why would it change ITTL sans Albert being dead pre Sigismund death?

 

[Tudorfan]

Inspired by The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society’s excellent video.

POD: Female Edward VI of England.

Henry VIII, King of England (1491-1547) m. Catalina, Infanta of Spain (1485-1536) m. Anne Boleyn (1501-1536) m. Jane Seymour (1508-1537) m. Anne of Cleves (1515-1558) m. Catherine Howard (1523-1542) m. Catherine Parr (1512-1548)
1a. Stillborn Daughter (1510)
2a. Henry, Duke of Cornwall (1511-1511)
3a. Stillborn Son (1513)
4a. Stillborn Son (1514)
5a. Mary, Queen of England (1516-1558) m. Philip II, King of Spain (1527-1598)

1a. Philip, King of England (1550-)​

2a. Catherine, Princess of England (1552-)​

3a. Edward, Duke of York (1553-)​

6a. Stillborn Daughter (1518)
7b. Elizabeth, *claimant* Queen of England (1533-1553) m. Ambrose Dudley, Earl of Warwick (1530-1553)
8b. Stillborn Son (1534)
9b. Stillborn Son (1536)
10c. Margaret, *claimant* Queen of England (1537-1603) m. Henri II, King of France (1519-1559)

1a. Louis XIII, King of France (1558 -)​

2a. Charlotte, Princess of France (1560-)​

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Various events of note:
1. After King Henry VIII’s death, nine year-old Margaret was proclaimed Queen of England. Her reign was to last but nine days, as her elder half-sister Mary managed to assume the throne from the young child. Edward and Thomas Seymour, the heads of Margaret’s regency council, were executed. Mary quickly began the reunification of the Church of England with Rome, which made her popular.
2. Mary still ends of marrying Philip II of Spain, but this time she manages to have three healthy children before having her two phantom pregnancies of OTL. As for her sisters, Lady Elizabeth is declared illegitimate but still kept at court, and Princess Margaret is declared the legitimate heir until Mary bears a child. Once the succession is secured, Margaret is engaged to several different foreign heirs, but nothing is settled by 1553.
3. In 1553, the reunification with Rome is complete, and Mary announces that any who rebel against this change will be punished. Lady Elizabeth, ambitious, eloped with Ambrose Dudley, a devout Protestant nobleman, and the two incite a rebellion while Mary is sick with her third pregnancy and Philip is abroad. Despite her pregnant state, Mary famously incites her troops to fight in the name of “God, Church, and Truth” and the rebels are crushed. Ambrose is executed but Elizabeth is offered pardon on the condition that she converts to Catholicism and becomes a nun. She refuses, but Mary is unable to kill her sister. Elizabeth died of smallpox while in the tower, though some Protestants speared rumors that she had been poisoned.
4. Princess Margaret remained close to Mary during her reign and stayed in her good graces. Raised as a Catholic during her sister’s reign, she found an unexpected match in King Henri II of France, whose had lost two sons (Henri and Hercules) the same year he lost his wife, Catherine d’Medici, and twins infant daughters. Margaret and Henri cared little for each other, but Margaret did enjoy being Queen of France. After delivering a son, Louis, her husband died in a tournament accident celebrating the marriage between his daughter Elisabeth and Margaret’s brother-in-law, King Philip II. She delivered a posthumous daughter, Charlotte, and she became regent for her son, who ascended to the throne in 1564 after the death of his half-brother, Charles IX.

Unlikely, since Henry's will would state that his daughter by Jane would be first in line and legitimate, then Mary, then Liz.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Gender-flipped kids of Philip II of Spain

1) Maria I, Queen of Portugal m. Duarte of Guimaraes
2) Philip III of Spain m. Marie Elisabeth of France
3) Charles, Lord of the Netherlands m. Antonia of Lorraine
4) Joanna m. Maximilian I of Bavaria

 

[Dragonboy]

Gender-flipped kids of Philip II of Spain

1) Maria I, Queen of Portugal m. Duarte of Guimaraes
2) Philip III of Spain m. Antonia of Lorraine
3) Charles, Lord of the Netherlands m. Marie Elisabeth of France
4) Joanna m. Maximilian I of Bavaria

At least this will save Spain years of fighting to keep portugal.

Idea: Albert victor survives to become Edward VIII

 

[Salma Amer]

Isabella, Duchess of Burgundy, Duchess of Brabant, Countess of Hainaut, Holland and Zealand (b. 1433-) married John II, Duke of Lorraine (b. 1428-1470)

Isabella (b.1451-) m Edward IV of England (b.1453-)​

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Margaret (b.1469-.) m Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470-.) In 1485 with issues ​

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Henry VII of England (b. 1471-.) m Juana of Aragon (b. 1479-) in 1495 with issues ​

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Edward, Duke of Clarence (b. 1473-.1475)​

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John, Duke of Clarence (b.1475-.) m ​

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Isabella (b.1478-.) m James IV, King of Scotland (b. 1473-.) In 1493 with issues ​

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Mary (b. 1481-.) m Francis III, Duke of Brittany (b.1477-.) With issues​

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Catherine (b.1483-.1489)​

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Anne (b. 1490-.1493.) n​

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Philip, Duke of Burgundy, Duke of Anjou, Count of Hainaut, Holland and Zeeland, Duke of Lorraine and Bar (b.1453-.) m Anne of Savoy (b.1455-.)​

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Philippe, Count of Charolais (b.1472-1480)​

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John I, King of Lorraine (b.1475-.) m Louise de Valois (b. 1472-) in 1490 with issues ​

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Charles, Duke of Anjou, Count of Provence (b.1477-.) m Isabeau of Brittany (b.1478-.) with issues ​

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Isabella (b.1480-.) m John III, King of Spain (b. 1478-.) with issues ​

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Mary (b.1455-) m Philip, Elector Palatine (b. 1448-.)​

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Louis V, Elector Palatine (b.1476-.) Elisabeth of Bavaria Lanschedot (b.1478-.) in 1496 with issues ​

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Ruprecht (b. 1479-.)​

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Frederick (b.1481-.)​

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Margaret (b.1484-.) m Philip I, Margrave of Baden (b.1479-.) with issues ​

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Elizabeth (b.1487-.1490) ​

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Catherine (b. 1491-.) m George I, Duke of Pomerania (b.1493-.) With issues​

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Helena (b.1493-.) m Henry V, Duke of Mecklenburg (b.1479-.) with issues ​

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Mary (b.1497-.), nun ​

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John, Duke of Brabant (b.1457-) m Margaret of Bavaria Lanschedot (b.1456-)​

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Philip (b.1478-1486)​

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Margaret (b.1481-.) m Ludwig, Duke of Bavaria Lanschedot (b.1476-) with issues​

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Isabella (b.1486-.) m Ulrich, Duke of Württemberg (b.1487-.) with issues​

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John, Duke of Brabant (b.1488-.) m Amalie of Cleves * (b.1487-) with issues ​

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Catherine (b.1495-.) m Charles II, Duke of Savoy(b.1489-.) with issues ​

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Yolande (b.1460-) m Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1459-)​

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Ernest, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1478-.) m Barbara of Poland (b.1476-) with issues ​

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Eleanor (b.1480-.) m Vladius II, King of Bohemia and Hungary (b. 1456-.) with issues ​

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Isabella (b.1483-.) m Frederick III, Elector of Saxony (b.1463-.) with issues ​

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Christopher (b.1488-.) m Yolande Louise of Savoy (b.1487-.) with issues ​

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Margaret (b.1492-.) m M . Sigmund I, King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania (b. 1467-.) With issues ​

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*Daughter of Philip of Cleves and Francesca of Luxembourg​

 

[HortenseMancini]

Gender-flipped kids of Philip II of Spain

1) Maria I, Queen of Portugal m. Duarte of Guimaraes
2) Philip III of Spain m. Antonia of Lorraine
3) Charles, Lord of the Netherlands m. Marie Elisabeth of France
4) Joanna m. Maximilian I of Bavaria

I would switch the matches for Philip and Charles - a Lorraine match brings no benefit for the king of Spain who is not also Duke of burgundy

 

[Salma Amer]

Philip II of Spain (b.1527-.1599) m Maria Manuela of Portugal (b. 1527-.1545) b) Mary I of England (b. 1516-.1568)

Carlos I, King of Portugal (b. 1545-.1582) m Elizabeth of France (b.1545-.)​

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Isabel (b. 1561-.) m Ferdinand II, Holy Roman Emperor and King of Bohemia and Hungary (b. 1551-.) in 1577 with issues​

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Catalina (b.1564-.) m Carlo Emanuele, Duke of Savoy (b.1562-) in 1580 with issues ​

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Philip III, King of Spain (b. 1566-.) m Eleanor of Austria (b. 1568-.) in 1584 with issues​

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Carlos, Viceroy of Naples (b. 1569-.) m Eleanor de Medici (b. 1569-.) in 1585 with issues​

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Philip II, King of England and Lord of the Netherlands (b. 1555-) m Mary Margaret of France and Scotland *(b.1560-) in 1575​

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Philip III, King of England and Lord of the Netherlands (b. 1576-.) m a)Claude of Lorraine (b.1575-1601), b)Magdalene of Bavaria (b.1587-.) with issues​

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Charles, Duke of York and Richmond (b.1578-.) m Louise Juliana of Nassau (b.1576-.) with issues​

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Mary (b.1580-.) m Maximilian III, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1578-.) with issues. ​

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John , Duke of Bedford (b.1584-.) m Eleanor de Medici (b. 1591-.) with issues​

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Catherine (b.1587-.) m Carlo Emanuele, Duke of Savoy (b.1582-.) with issues ​

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Isabella (b.1591-.) m James VI of Scotland ** (b. 1593-.) with issues ​

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Henry Ferdinand, Duke of Gloucester (b.1595-.1615) ​

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**Son of Charles, Duke of Rothesay (b. 1569-1595) (son of Mary I of Scotland (b. 1542-1616) and her second husband, Charles, Archduke of Austria) and Antonia of Lorraine​

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*The only daughter of Mary, Queen of Scots, and her first husband, Francis II, King of France​

 

[Tudorfan]

All of Henry VIII's kids are boys. Forgive some of the odd names, I ran out of ideas!

Henry VIII (b. 28 June 1491 - d. 28 January 1547). Married:

1. Katherine of Aragon (b. 1486 - d. 1518)
   1. Henry IX (b. 31 January 1510)
   2. Ferdinand, Duke of York (b. 1 Jan 1511)
   3. Charles (b. 17 Sept 1513)
   4. Arthur (b. 14 Dec 1514)
   5. Lionel (b. 18 Feb 1516)
   6. Edmund (b. 18 November 1518)
2. Anne Boleyn (b. 1501 - d. 1536)
   1. Thomas (b. 7 September 1533)
   2. George (b. 16 December 1534)
   3. John (b. 15 October 1535)
   4. Francis (b. 11 July 1536)
3. Jane Seymour (b. 1508 - d. 1537)
   1. Edward (b. 12 Oct 1537)
4. Anne of Cleves (b. 1515 - 1557)
5. Katherine Howard (b. 1526 - d. 1542)
6. Catherine Parr (b. 1512 - d. 1548)

 

[Salma Amer]

Philip II of Spain (b.1527-.1599) m Maria Manuela of Portugal (b. 1527-.1545) b) Mary I of England (b. 1516-.1568)

Carlos I, King of Portugal (b. 1545-.1582) m Elizabeth of France (b.1545-.)​

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Isabel (b. 1561-.) m Ferdinand II, Holy Roman Emperor and King of Bohemia and Hungary (b. 1551-.) in 1577 with issues​

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Catalina (b.1564-.) m Carlo Emanuele, Duke of Savoy (b.1562-) in 1580 with issues ​

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Philip III, King of Spain (b. 1566-.) m Eleanor of Austria (b. 1568-.) in 1584 with issues​

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Carlos, Viceroy of Naples (b. 1569-.) m Eleanor de Medici (b. 1569-.) in 1585 with issues​

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Philip II, King of England and Lord of the Netherlands (b. 1555-) m Mary Margaret of France and Scotland *(b.1560-) in 1575​

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Philip III, King of England and Lord of the Netherlands (b. 1576-.) m a)Claude of Lorraine (b.1575-1601), b)Magdalene of Bavaria (b.1587-.) with issues​

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Charles, Duke of York and Richmond (b.1578-.) m Louise Juliana of Nassau (b.1576-.) with issues​

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Mary (b.1580-.) m ​

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John , Duke of Bedford (b.1584-.) m​

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Catherine (b.1587-.) m ​

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Isabella (b.1591-.)​

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Henry Ferdinand, Duke of Gloucester (b.1595-.) ​

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*The only daughter of Mary, Queen of Scots, and her first husband, Francis II, King of France​

Philip III, King of England and Lord of the Netherlands (b. 1576-.) m a)Claude of Lorraine (b.1575-1601), b)Magdalene of Bavaria (b.1587-.) with issues

Mary (b.1597-.) m Maximilian I, Elector of Bavaria * (b. 1572-.)as second wife in 1612 with issues ​

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Philip, Prince of Wales (b. 1599-.1602)​

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Christine (b.1601-.) m Louis XIII, King of France (b. 1601-.) with issues​

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Charles I, King of England, Lord of the Netherlands (b. 1605-.) m Nicole, Duchess of Lorraine (b.1609-.) with issues ​

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Margaret (b.1608-.) m​

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John, Duke of Clarence (b.1612-.) m ​

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Anne (b.1616-.) m ​

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* Widowed early​

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[Dragonboy]

Idea: All of the surviving children of Henry VII and EOY are boys

 

[HortenseMancini]

All of Henry VIII's kids are boys. Forgive some of the odd names, I ran out of ideas!

Henry VIII (b. 28 June 1491 - d. 28 January 1547). Married:

1. Katherine of Aragon(b. 1486 - d. 1518)
   1. Henry IX (b. 31 January 1510)
   2. Ferdinand, Duke of York (b. 1 Jan 1511)
   3. Charles (b. 17 Sept 1513)
   4. Arthur (b. 14 Dec 1514)
   5. Lionel (b. 18 Feb 1516)
   6. Edmund (b. 18 November 1518)
2. Anne Boleyn(b. 1501 - d. 1536)
   1. Thomas (b. 7 September 1533)
   2. George (b. 16 December 1534)
   3. John (b. 15 October 1535)
   4. Francis (b. 11 July 1536)
3. Jane Seymour(b. 1508 - d. 1537)
   1. Edward (b. 12 Oct 1537)
4. Anne of Cleves (b. 1515 - 1557)
5. Katherine Howard (b. 1526 - d. 1542)
6. Catherine Parr (b. 1512 - d. 1548)

Ew

 

[Salma Amer]

Idea: All of the surviving children of Henry VII and EOY are boys

Henry VII of England (d. 1513) married Elizabeth of York (d. 1519)

Arthur, Prince of Wales (b. 1486-.1501) mCatherine of Aragon (b.1485-.)​

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Henry VIII (b.1489-.) m Catherine of Aragon (b.1485-.) in 1504 with issues​

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Edmund, Duke of Somerset (b.1491-.) m Marguerite de Angoulême (b. 1492-.) in 1508 with issues​

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Edward, Duke of Richmond (b. 1492-1495)​

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John , Duke of Richmond (b.1496-.) m Madeleine de la Tour de Auvergne (b.1498-.) with issues​

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Jasper, Duke of Bedford (b. 1499-.) married Elizabeth Grey (b. 1505-.) with issues ​

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I don't think they will try again with many sons​

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[Dragonboy]

Henry VII of England (d. 1513) married Elizabeth of York (d. 1519)

Arthur, Prince of Wales (b. 1486-.1501) mCatherine of Aragon (b.1485-.)​

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Henry VIII (b.1489-.) m Catherine of Aragon (b.1485-.) in 1504 with issues​

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Edmund, Duke of Somerset (b.1491-.) m Marguerite de Angoulême (b. 1492-.) in 1508 with issues​

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Edward, Duke of Richmond (b. 1492-1495)​

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John , Duke of Richmond (b.1496-.) m Madeleine de la Tour de Auvergne (b.1498-.) with issues​

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Jasper, Duke of Bedford (b. 1499-.) married Elizabeth Grey (b. 1505-.) with issues ​

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I don't think they will try again with many sons​

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Good pairings.

Suggestion for another tree: Princess Mary (daughter of henry viii and COA) has a healthy twin brother named edmund.

 

[Salma Amer]

Good pairings.

Suggestion for another tree: Princess Mary (daughter of henry viii and COA) has a healthy twin brother named edmund.

Henry VIII of England (d. 1547) married Catherine of Aragon (d. 1539)

Edmund I of England (b.1516-.)m Maria of Portugal (b.1521-.)​

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Henry IX (b.1537-.) m Barbara of Austuria (b.1539-.) With issues ​

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Catherine (b.1539-.) m James VI of Scotland (b.1540- ) with issues ​

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Edmund, Duke of York (b.1540-.) m Mary fitzlan (b.1540-.) with issues ​

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Eleanor (b.1542-.) m Charles , prince of Asturias (b.1545-.) with issues ​

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Charles ,Duke of Somerset (b.1544-.) m Catherine Gray (b.1540-.) with issues ​

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Mary (b.1549-.) m Fredrik II of Denmark (b.1533-.) with issues ​

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John , Duke of Bedford (b.1553-.) m ​

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Elizabeth (b.1555-.) m Karl Friedrich, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1557-.) with issues ​

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Mary (b.1516-.) m Francis III, Duke of Brittany (b. 1518-.1536)​

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François II of France (b.1534-.) m Margaret of Austria (b. 1536-.) With issues​

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Henry, Duke of berry (b.1536-.)m Henriette of Cleves (b. 1544-.) with issues​

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[FalconHonour]

Idea: All of the surviving children of Henry VII and EOY are boys

Henry VII (1457-1509) m. Elizabeth of York (1466-1528)

1) Arthur Prince of Wales (1486-1502) m. Katherine of Aragon (1485-1532)
2) Henry VIII (1489-1541) m. Katherine of Aragon (1485-1532)

• Henry, Prince of Wales (b.1505)
• Margaret (1507-1511)
• Elizabeth (b.1508)
• Miscarriage (1509)
• Edward, Duke of Pembroke (b.1510)
• Katherine (b.1512)
• Stillborn daughter (1513)
• John, Duke of Suffolk (b.1514)
• Mary (b.1516)
• Joanna (1516-1517)

3) Edmund, Duke of Somerset (b.1491) m. Anne de La Tour (1496-1528)

• Elizabeth (b.1514-1517)
• Stillborn son (b.1516)
• Edmund (1518-1524)
• Joan (1520-1521)
• Miscarriage (1522)
• Stillborn son (1523)
• Madeleine (b.1525)

4) Jasper, Duke of Richmond (b.1496) m. Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess Lisle (1505-1519) (a) Lady Katherine Stafford (b.1499) (b)

1b. Elizabeth (b.1522)
2b) Arthur, Earl of Nottingham (b.1524)
3b) Katherine (b.1526)
4b) Miscarriage (1526)
5b) Jasper (1527-1528)
6b) Thomas (b.1530)
7b) Ursula (b.1533)