yeah, but would they really rush to be bunched in with Castile? If they didn't want Juana of Aragon, they could chose either her daughter or a surviving Charles of Naples?
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II
- Thread starter FalconHonour
- Start date
They accepted Isabella and Juana as Princesses of Girona for the purpose of staying united with Castile.
POD: Two of Anne of Brittany's pregnancies in her second marriage result in healthy sons.
Louis XII of France (1462-1515) m. a) Joan of France (1464-1505) ann. in 1498, b) Anne, Duchess of Brittany (1477-1514)
[1] ATL daughter of Manuel I of Portugal and Maria of Aragon.
[2] Gender-swapped Maria Manuela of Portugal.
[3] Daughter of Joanna of Austria and Francis, Duke of Lorraine.
[4] Daughter of Ercole, Duke of Ferrara and Mary of Bourbon.
[5] Daughter of James IV of Scotland and Margaret Tudor, wast stillborn in OTL.
[6] OTL Francis, Duke of Guise.
[7] The OTL New Year's Prince. Doesn't die young ITTL.
[8] Daughter of Henry Percy and Anne Boleyn. It's a love match.
[9] Son of Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor and his second wife, Isabella of Portugal.
[10] Son of James V of Scotland and Anne of France.
Louis XII of France (1462-1515) m. a) Joan of France (1464-1505) ann. in 1498, b) Anne, Duchess of Brittany (1477-1514)
1b) Claude (1499-1524) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (1500-1558)
1) Philip II of Spain (1517-1580) m. Eleanor of Portugal (1516-1580) [1]
2) Anne (1518-1520)
3) Joanna (1520-1589) m. Francis, Duke of Lorraine (1517-1550)
4) Ferdinand (1521-1522)
5) Isabella (1524-1575) m. Manuel II of Portugal (1527-1581) [2]
2b) Louis XIII of France (1501-1552) m. Eleanor of Austria (1498-1558)
1) Louis XIV of France (1518-1574) m. a) Mary Tudor (1516-1558), b) Claude of Lorraine (1542-1591) [3]
2) Anne (1519-1574) m. James V of Scotland (1512-1566)
3) Francis, Duke of Orleans (1521-1525)
4) Stillborn son (1523)
5) Margaret (1524-1525)
6) Charles, Duke of Orleans (1526-1588) m. Lucrezia d'Este (1532-1598) [4]
7) Philip (1527)
8) Eleanor (1529-1600) m. Sigismund II of Poland (1520-1572)
9) Renée (1531-1592) m. Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy (1528-1580)
3b) Stillborn son (1503)
4b) Francis III, Duke of Brittany (1507-1565) m. Margaret Stewart (1508-1568) [5]
1) Anne (1525-1587) m. William, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (1516-1592)
2) Stillborn son (1526)
3) Margaret (1528-1569) m. Louis, Duke of Guise (1519-1563) [6]
4) Louis, Count of Monfort (1529-1532)
5) Eleanor (1531)
6) Francis IV, Duke of Brittany (1534-1598) m. Elizabeth Tudor (1539-1612)
7) Stillborn son (1536)
5b) Renée (1510-1575) m. Henry IX of England (1511-1563) [7]
1) Henry (1528)
2) Edward VI of England (1529-1596) m. Maria of Austria (1531-1581)
3) Arthur, Duke of York (1531-1580) m. Elizabeth Percy (1532-1589) [8]
4) Katherine (1534-1599) m. John, Duke of Burgundy (1535-1606) [9]
5) Anne (1536-1575) m. James VI of Scotland (1537-1591) [10]
6) Mary (1537)
7) Elizabeth (1539-1612) m. Francis IV, Duke of Brittany (1534-1598)
8) Francis, Duke of Somerset (1542-1559)
6b) Stillborn son (1513)
[1] ATL daughter of Manuel I of Portugal and Maria of Aragon.
[2] Gender-swapped Maria Manuela of Portugal.
[3] Daughter of Joanna of Austria and Francis, Duke of Lorraine.
[4] Daughter of Ercole, Duke of Ferrara and Mary of Bourbon.
[5] Daughter of James IV of Scotland and Margaret Tudor, wast stillborn in OTL.
[6] OTL Francis, Duke of Guise.
[7] The OTL New Year's Prince. Doesn't die young ITTL.
[8] Daughter of Henry Percy and Anne Boleyn. It's a love match.
[9] Son of Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor and his second wife, Isabella of Portugal.
[10] Son of James V of Scotland and Anne of France.
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Yes. OTL Ferdinand had the power for securing the succession to Isabella first and Joanna then thanks to the union with Castile, but here would have less. Plus he had the luck who his relatives were loyal to him and had no intention to push for a breakup of the union with Castile but still the Cortes were more inclined to accept Isabel/Joanna’s son as heir over her
Yeah, but it was already after Juan, Prince of Asturias died, they didn't have a choice anymore.
I don't think Charles would keep Spain if he married Claude.
I like England's tree though, hopefully Renee has a more fortunate marriage ITL.
He would surely still get it. Ferdinand II would have little way to prevent him from inheriting and no personal reason for doing it (Securing Castile to Ferdinand jr is extremely complicated so either Charles is already Emperor before Ferdinand II’s death, pushing Castile to accept Ferdinand II’s will to name Joanna’s younger son as heir or Ferdinand must be extremely enraged with Charles for some reason (basically the scenario must be: Ferdinand threatening Charles to disinherit him if he do not accept something, Charles ignoring him (in OTL that do not happened) and Ferdinand being truly willing to do what he had menaced. And Charles would still most likely inherit at least Castile)
So Charles = HRE, Burgundy, Crown of Castile
Ferdy = Part of Austria (Probably) + Aragon?
His father would be chosen first since he'd live to 1522.
Alfonso would marry a child of Alfonso + Juana la Betranja (@Dragonboy's pairing) or possibly even Margaret Tudor, but I doubt it because the Tudors were KEEN on bringing her to Scotland (As were a lot of Scottish courtiers who poisoned James's Mistress in fears she'd prevent him from marrying Maggie Tudor)
Thanks.
Ferdinand would have no way of disinherit him and Charles still marries Isabella of Portugal as a second wife.
Aragon and Castile wouldn't want to break in the union...
Good.
I guess he still gets Austria and marry Anna Jagiellonska
No. Ferdinand would get either Austria OR Aragon (in the latter case he could get also Castile but is far from guaranteed)
likeliest scenario if Ferdinand II died as OTL is Charles inherited everything and Ferdinand get Austria and married Anna of Hungary.
If Ferdinand died later than OTL (so Ferdinand Jr is already 15/16 while Charles is possibly King of the Romans or Emperor and maybe already married then Charles got his whole paternal inheritance while Ferdinand get Castile and Aragon…
Keep in mind who if Ferdinand II is still alive at July 1516 then Anne of Hungary would became the fourth wife of Maximilian