Lightning From A Clear Sky; or the German-American War over Venezulea

Douglas

ThomasTheviking said:
I would say you are right....but there are a longer distance to the UK than to Germany, seen from Copenhagen...and the Danes having lost a war to Germany, which threathned Denmarks independence, means that German pressure could most likely persuade/ force the Danish Government....the Danes could only hope that the British and others would have sympathy for the Danish geographic situation.
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The UK would have deep sympathy, but as the German fleet was towed (yes, it was so short-ranged that portions of it would have to be towed across the Atlantic) into St. Croix or what have you, you can bet that they would already be met by a sharp, rested US battlefleet.

This TL is, I feel, ASB. The German General Staff wielded so much power and was so influential that I find it impossible without significantly changing the geopolitical situation to have the KM go on a death ride to the Caribbean, army corps in tow.
 

Timmy811

Obviously T.R. would write a much better speech than I, but this gets to the gist of the matter.
====================
December 22nd, Joint Session of Congress

Roosevelt: As Congress is well aware, tensions with the German Empire over the Venezuela affair have been high for some time. Unlike Britain which has disavowed the acquisition of any Venezuelan territory, the German foreign office has floated the idea of “temporary occupation of Venezuelan harbors and the levying of duties therein.” Doubtlessly as temporary as the German occupation of Kiauchow.

In regards to receiving clarification of the Kaiser’s intentions, I on the advice of Secretaries Hay and Root, confronted the German ambassador von Holleben on the 8th. Speaking with extreme emphasis, “I told him to tell the Kaiser that I put Dewey in charge of our fleet to maneuver in West Indian waters, that the world at large would know this merely as a maneuver, and we should strive in every way to appear simply as cooperating with the Germans, but that I regretted to say ... that I should be obliged to interfere, by force if necessary, if Germany took any action that looked like the acquisition of territory in Venezuela or elsewhere in the Caribbean.”

Ambassador von Holleben insisted that the Kaiser had no intention of taking permanent possession of Venezuelan territory.

I then informed him that “I would wait ten days for a total disclaimer from Berlin. If none were forthcoming, Admiral Dewey would be ordered south to observe matters along Venezuela.”

The very next day four gunboats were seized by the Joint Anglo-German fleet, and three of the gunboats were then destroyed by the Germans in a wanton act of brutality.

However, Ambassador von Holleben visited the White House on the morning of the 14th and I was optimistic that we would receive a favorable reply. It turned out though that the Ambassador had come with the intention of discussing Tennis and the weather. When the ambassador got up to leave I asked him if the German government would assent to arbitration. The Ambassador bluntly said “No”.

I replied that the Kaiser must understand that the government of the United States was “definitely threatening war” if Germany refused to accept Secretary Hay’s arbitration proposal.

The ambassador refused to be a party to such language. I responded that in that case I would have to advance the deadline for a reply one day to the 17th. Von Holleben seemed to finally take me seriously at this point, but he repeated in an almost desperate tone that the Kaiser would not accede to arbitration. No doubt he dreaded the response of the Kaiser to his transmission of our demands. Tyrants have never been known for welcoming the bearers of bad news.

And tyrant he is, for while the British government privately informed us that they would accept arbitration on the 17th, no message of any kind was received from the German embassy. Indeed we were to learn on the morrow that the German gunboat the SMS Panther had shelled the Venezuelan Fort San Carlos on the very day I had asked for a reply.

Accordingly Admiral Dewy was ordered to take his task force south and prevent further German aggression against the Republic of Venezuela. He quickly learned of the attack on San Carlos and dispatched the Battleship Alabama to protect it. It seems the Panther had been unable to destroy the fort and it was likely the Germans would return in more force. On the 21st Dewey was proved correct as the Panther returned with the cruiser SMS Vinetia.

Captain Brownson signalled them that US government would no longer allow such aggression on behalf of a government that refused to disavow territorial ambitions in the Caribbean. The Germans replied, and I quote “that the US government has no right to interfere in the actions of the German Reich, and that it would not be so foolish as to intervene in its justified blockade of Venezuela as that would mean war with a world power, not a third rate country like Spain.”

Captain Brownson replied with remarkable restraint that while German was certainly a world power, Venezuela lay markedly closer to the United States which was likewise a world power. The Germans then stated, and I once again quote “the distance is irrelevant as Germany’s strength is as high above America, as America’s is above Spain.” They then ended communications and commenced bombarding the fort.

Captain Brownson then opened fire and in the ensuing battle sank both German ships.
The Alabama suffered little material damage, however unfortunately, over a dozen American sailors were killed in the action, and several more lie badly wounded.

In the face of such unbelievable insolence, the flagrant and violent disregard of this nation’s most cherished foreign policy, the Monroe Doctrine, and insults to the nation’s honor I ask this Congress of the United States for a declaration of War against the German Empire!

============================================

Meanwhile across the sea the Kaiser was raging. He alternated between vows of revenge against the Americans and rants against the perfidious British who had abandoned him. Finally calming down, he ordered that Operational Plan 3 be put into action. The High Seas Fleet would coal at the Azores, then steam southwest and seize Puerto Rico. From there it would serve as base from which German commerce raiders would operate and as a springboard from which to launch an invasion of Cuba and various diversionary strikes on coastal cities in the Southeast
 
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Timmy811

That's just too ambitious. Attempting to seize Puerto Rico is more realistic.

Anyone have any good links for Operational Plan 3, there's not much in detail online that I can find.
 

Mad Missouri

I have never found much on it. Wikki has a little that i am sure you have seen already. There are more than a few threads on this site that talk about it. Most people agree the German Navy was never really in a position to pull of the plan.

But I for one would love to see the coastal artillery at Fort Morgan LA defending Mobile Bay from German ships!
 

Mad Missouri

Timmy811 said:
That's just too ambitious. Attempting to seize Puerto Rico is more realistic.

Anyone have any good links for Operational Plan 3, there's not much in detail online that I can find.
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I think the plan called for the bombardment of NYC at the very least. I think the goal was to panic the US economy.
 

Timmy811

Mad Missouri said:
I think the plan called for the bombardment of NYC at the very least. I think the goal was to panic the US economy.
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That was definitely in the 2nd version of the plan, but I believe there were further revisions. Morris in Theodore Rex says Tripitz planned to "dispatch his fleet to the Azores at the first signal of transatlantic hositilities. From that point, the fleet would steam south and take 'Puerteriko', then launch attacks along the American seaboard. A likely landing place was Gardiners Bay on Long Island - which meant that when German troops advanced on New York Cit, they would march right past Roosevelt's house."

I think that if the capture of Puerto Rico was successful though, saner heads would prevail and Cuba would be the next target. Some diversionary attacks on American ports like Miami or Savannah would also be possible. Attacking New York from Puerto Rico just isn't logistically feasible.
 

Mad Missouri

Timmy811 said:
That was definitely in the 2nd version of the plan, but I believe there were further revisions. Morris in Theodore Rex says Tripitz planned to "dispatch his fleet to the Azores at the first signal of transatlantic hositilities. From that point, the fleet would steam south and take 'Puerteriko', then launch attacks along the American seaboard. A likely landing place was Gardiners Bay on Long Island - which meant that when German troops advanced on New York Cit, they would march right past Roosevelt's house."

I think that if the capture of Puerto Rico was successful though, saner heads would prevail and Cuba would be the next target. Some diversionary attacks on American ports like Miami or Savannah would also be possible. Attacking New York from Puerto Rico just isn't logistically feasible.
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Was Miami a port worth attacking at that time? I could see them attacking Tampa as the US used it during the Spannish American War. Wouldn't an attack on Savannah bring them too close to the major US navy bases in Virgina?
 

Timmy811

Savannaha's still got to be what, 500 miles from Norfolk? Anyways if Puerto Rico was taken and an invasion of Cuba's in the offing, then the USN has been beaten in a decisive battle. Will that happen in this time line, or will Admiral Dewey save the day? Stay tuned to find out. :cool:

Also, some more comments, input and advice would be appreciated.
 

Gridley

Timmy811 said:
Also, some more comments, input and advice would be appreciated.
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Looks like you're far more knowledgeable about the period in question than I am so I can't really offer useful comments.

I am, however, greatly enjoying this, so please keep writing!

I'd like to see USS Olympia (C-6) get some action, BTW.
 

Mad Missouri

Timmy811 said:
Savannaha's still got to be what, 500 miles from Norfolk? Anyways if Puerto Rico was taken and an invasion of Cuba's in the offing, then the USN has been beaten in a decisive battle. Will that happen in this time line, or will Admiral Dewey save the day? Stay tuned to find out. :cool:

Also, some more comments, input and advice would be appreciated.
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What can the Germans send to battle? The 4 Brandenburg, 5 kaiser fiedrick III, and maybe 2 of the wittelsbach class battleships? The US can field something like 10 battleships in 1902. Maybe 12 if they rush commissioning the last 2 ships of the Maine class. I think the Germans have more modern ships.

Does anyone have a list of ships comparing Naval strengths in 1902?

Battle has been joined so surprise is not likely by either side. Maybe it will come down to seamanship. The US does have sailors with combat experience from the last war. Have the Germans seen any action?

500 miles sounds right, but that only about a third the distance from San Juan PR to Savannah. (1300 miles according to google.)

When is the next update coming?
 
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Gridley

US Navy Warships in commission as of December 17th, 1902 (compiled from Wikipedia).

"Battleships"
USS Texas, 6,682t, 18kts, 2x12", 12" belt
USS Indiana BB1, 10,288t, 15kts, 4x13", 18" belt
USS Massachusetts BB2, 10,288t, 15kts, 4x13", 18" belt
USS Oregon BB3, 10,288t, 15kts, 4x13", 18" belt
USS Iowa BB4, 11,346t, 17kts, 4x12", 18" belt
USS Kearsarge BB5, 11,540t, 16kts, 4x13", ?? belt
USS Kentucky BB6, 11,540t, 16kts, 4x13", ?? belt
USS Illinois BB7, 11,565t, 17kts, 4x13", ?? belt
USS Alabama BB8, 11,565t, 17ks, 4x13", ?? belt
USS Wisconsin BB9, 11,565t, 17kts, 4x13", ?? belt
*12/29/02 USS Maine, BB10, 12,500t, 18kts, 4x12", 12" cemented belt

"Armored Cruisers"
USS New York ACR2, 8,150t, 21kts, 6x8"
USS Brooklyn ACR3, 9,215t, 20kts, 8x8"

"Protected Cruisers"
USS Albany, 3,428t, 19.5kts, 6x6"
USS New Orleans, 3,769t, 20kts, 6x6"
USS Chicago, 4,500t, 14kts, 4x8"
USS Boston, 3,189t, 13kts, 2x8", 6x6"
USS Atlanta, 3,189t, 16kts, 2x8", 6x6"
USS Newark C1, 4,083t, 19kts, 12x6"
USS Baltimore C3, 4,413t, 4x8"
USS Philadelphia C4, 4,324t, 19kts, 12x6"
USS San Francisco C5, 4,088t, 19kts, 12x6"
USS Olympia C6, 5,586t, 20kts, 4x8", 10x5"
USS Cincinnati C7, 3,183t, 19kts, 1x6", 10x5"
USS Raleigh C8, 3,200t, 19kts, 1x6", 10x5"
USS Montgomery C9, 2,094t, 17kts, 9x5"
USS Detroit C10, 2,094t, 17kts, 9x5"
USS Marblehead C11, 2,072t, 18kts, 9x5"
USS Columbia C12, 7,375t, 23kts, 1x8", 2x6"
USS Minneapolis C13, 7,375t, 21kts, 1x8", 2x6"

"Destroyers"
*2/12/03 USS Bainbridge DD1, 420t, 28kts, 2x18"TT
USS Barry DD2, 420t, 28kts, 2x18"TT
*2/21/03 USS Chauncey DD3, 420t, 28kts, 2x18"TT
*2/13/03 USS Dale DD4, 420t, 28kts, 2x18"TT
USS Decatur DD5, 420t, 28kts, 2x18"TT

Also several monitors, torpedo boats, and gunboats which I don't feel like listing right now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monitors_of_the_United_States_Navy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_torpedo_boats_of_the_United_States_Navy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_steam_gunboats_of_the_United_States_Navy
 

Snowstalker

Roosevelt fights a naval war against the Germans...

I desperately want to make love to you right now. And I'm a straight male.
 

mowque

Banned
Timmy811 said:
I think that if the capture of Puerto Rico was successful though, saner heads would prevail and Cuba would be the next target. Some diversionary attacks on American ports like Miami or Savannah would also be possible. Attacking New York from Puerto Rico just isn't logistically feasible.
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Quite. That is eventually what I settled on as well. Did you enjoy Morris's book as well? I found it quite readable.
 
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