octoberman
Banned
what if Justinian II conquered the caliphate during second fitna when it was extremely weak
If they some how did manage to pull it off the Romans likely don't get to keep much of it. They lost a lot of those areas in the first place due to being rather unpopular with the locals.what if Justinian II conquered the caliphate during second fitna when it was extremely weak
I doubt it, OTL even during the Fitna ummayds stop him easily, so another romanboo fantasywhat if Justinian II conquered the caliphate during second fitna when it was extremely weak
A victory at Sebastopolis would help also now je doesn't have to immediately get into hostilities with tervelMaybe a different battle of Sebastopolis might shake things enough for Justinian to make minor gains, prevent his own downfall and successfully defend Africa from Arab aggression. I would count this as victory for the empire over the Caliphate. From there I thinks it's a matter of making small but progressive gains. It's not the outright conquest you are looking to, but the empire can definitely return to be the premiere power in the Mediterranean if it manages to stop the Arabs (before the Isaurians) while keeping a strong foot in the West
Indeed! What the empire really needs is to play the long game, preserve what they have and restructure their internal organization (it was after all Justinian II who brought to its conclusion the Thematic reorganization of the army, barring minor changes in the VIII century), not a Justinianic style reconquest of the lost territories. The time will come when the Caliphate permanently weakens and break apart. The stronger the empire's position is by that point, the greater the extent of the reconquest will be. Peace in the East also comes with its own advantages, like the possibility for VIII century emperors to better focus on the Bulgars or the Lombards.A victory at Sebastopolis would help also now je doesn't have to immediately get into hostilities with tervel
Justinian dealt with other slavic tribes well aside from Bulgaria so partial Balkan recovery is very much possible reestablishment of key areas would help a lot and maybe don't make cilicia a border of thing since having the port of tarsus would help also Africa delaying its fall has a lot consequences since it gives the Berbers more time organizingIndeed! What the empire really needs is to play the long game, preserve what they have and restructure their internal organization (it was after all Justinian II who brought to its conclusion the Thematic reorganization of the army, barring minor changes in the VIII century), not a Justinianic style reconquest of the lost territories. The time will come when the Caliphate permanently weakens and break apart. The stronger the empire's position is by that point, the greater the extent of the reconquest will be. Peace in the East also comes with its own advantages, like the possibility for VIII century emperors to better focus on the Bulgars or the Lombards.
More than delaying the fall of Africa to give the Berbers time; I was more looking to the possibility of the Romans retaining their presence there permanently.also Africa delaying its fall has a lot consequences since it gives the Berbers more time organizing
Gotta say this current trend of insulting other members with "XXXboo" is getting tiresome as all hell.I doubt it, OTL even during the Fitna ummayds stop him easily, so another romanboo fantasy
bulgaria tho so it would have to be 680 pod, but the Armenian part of the 1025 map being sent back to 690 makes the most sense antioch would be harder tho but you can make Cilicia roman instead of the no man land it was for some timeIf all the cards are played well, and a couple of sixes rolled, Justinian might ascend to Basil II's eastern borders 300 years ahead of schedule.
But resources of Byzantium were on par with Umayyads during Battle of Marj RahitIt’s simply not possible. They just don’t have the resources to conquer the caliphate. What can be done is for the empire to not lose at Sebastopolis. That and maybe another good win or two could allow Justinian to preserve the empires borders and more importantly his reign and the empires stability. He came to the throne at a young age so if he can have a long reign and keep the empire stable it would go along way in preserving the empire and allowing it a much earlier period of renewal and growth.