jolo's WW2: Mediterranean strategy TL

My version of the Med strategy:

1941

POD: Italy fails on all fronts - against Greece, against Britain, against anyone. Sending German troops here and there to bail out the Italians is actually a waste of time. Instead, Hitler decides to "unite" Germany and Italy, similar to what was done in 1943. Now all the Italian possessions are his, and a war in North Africa is actually worth some more effort.

- Any Italian resistance in Libya is defeated. I suppose some ships will be turned over to Germany, some will be sunk or disabled, some will manage to flee.

- The Balkan including Greece is conquered.

- The US might be annoyed, but except stepping up their aid for Britain, I don't see much change.

- In this situation, it'll be impossible for Germany to keep Russia out of Rumania and Persia. Russia attacks Rumania first, but the Germans are able to get large oil deliveries as a compensation for loosing Rumania as trading partner - even more than they got IOTL.

- Malta, Cyprus and other places are conquered.

- From Libya, Germany expands towards Egypt and Free French territories.

- Lots of subs, torpedo boats, and small cruisers are built in the Med.

- The Italian weapons production is streamlined and updated to the most effective German weapons and ammunition.

- Japan doesn't declare war against the US as Russia is too much of a threat. Germany therefore also doesn't declare war, despite being provoked to.

1942

- With an effort comparable to the OTL attack against Russia, Egypt and the Middle East is conquered, as well as Sudan and other British possessions in the area.

- Russia starts the attack against Persia, thus entering the war against Britain and becoming part of the Axis.

- Oil now comes from Libya, too.

- British bombing becomes an annoyance. Germany knowing it's already pretty overstretched still avoids a war with the US.

- As there is less need for that many tanks, more ressources and money can be invested into planes, bombers, ships, subs, and so on - Britain also feels a little bit annoyed.

- Instead of being killed, the Jews are sent to Palestine. As there have been few deaths in the concentration camps yet, there even develops a friendly relationship. Many of the "2nd and 3rd degree Jews" also keep their Christian believes.

1943

- Russia is now fully occupied with Afghanistan and India, keeping that thread away from Germany and also keeping the US from declaring war against Germany. All those litttle t-34s easily overrun British defences in India.

- Germany expands further into Africa.

- The Vichy Republic is taken by Germany as IOTL, for the same reasons. That also adds Algeria and Tunesia to the German territory.

- Oil now flows freely towards Germany from North Africa and the Mideast. Britain is feeling the pinch.

- The u-boat war is much more deadly than IOTL, causing Britain lots of losses. Germany can even afford not to sink US ships to delay a US entry into the war.

- The British public cries for accepting any honorable peace offers.

1944

- Germany strikes a secret deal with Britain, Japan, and the US: Britain can keep India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Persia, and South Africa (de facto). Other parts of Africa are shared between the remaining powers there. The US keeps anything it has, as well as control over Greenland and Iceland. Germany keeps continental Europe, most of north Africa, and the Middle East. Turkey stays neutral (?). Japan gets all of East Asia except the area around Australia. Russia will be attacked by the combined forces of Britain, Japan, and Germany. The US will support the British effort with weapons and ammunitions deliveries in exchange for the one or other British possession in the Americas. Any embargoes will be lifted. This time, the British are ready to accept. The US also agrees, due to the communist thread.

- Russia is attacked from all sides at once. Japan is still no problem for the Russians, but occupies enough troops to allow Germany to be successful. Britain finally manages to keep the Russians from advancing further into the remaining India. Logistical problems keep Russia from employing their T-34s fully. Germany advances slower than in the beginning of OTL's Barbarossa, but they advance. Canadian forces help Finland to advance from the north.

1945

- Russia gives up. It looses Karelia, the Ukraine, Poland, Persia, Afghanistan, India, and Pakistan. It keeps Mongolia, Sachalin, White Russia. China gets independent (including Russian occupied Manchuria).

- Germany gets free reign in continental Europe, North Africa, and Arabia. They incorporate Switzerland and later Spain, Portugal, Sweden, and Finland.

- America develops the bomb as IOTL, but doesn't have an enemy to use it against.

- The US becomes super power number one, Germany follows, then Britain, then (after recovering) Russia.
 
jolo said:
My version of the Med strategy:

1941
POD: Italy fails on all fronts - against Greece, against Britain, against anyone. Sending German troops here and there to bail out the Italians is actually a waste of time. Instead, Hitler decides to "unite" Germany and Italy, similar to what was done in 1943. Now all the Italian possessions are his, and a war in North Africa is actually worth some more effort.
- Any Italian resistance in Libya is defeated. I suppose some ships will be turned over to Germany, some will be sunk or disabled, some will manage to flee.
- The Balkan including Greece is conquered.
- The US might be annoyed, but except stepping up their aid for Britain, I don't see much change.
- In this situation, it'll be impossible for Germany to keep Russia out of Rumania and Persia. Russia attacks Rumania first, but the Germans are able to get large oil deliveries as a compensation for loosing Rumania as trading partner - even more than they got IOTL.
- Malta, Cyprus and other places are conquered.
- From Libya, Germany expands towards Egypt and Free French territories.
- Lots of subs, torpedo boats, and small cruisers are built in the Med.
- The Italian weapons production is streamlined and updated to the most effective German weapons and ammunition.
- Japan doesn't declare war against the US as Russia is too much of a threat. Germany therefore also doesn't declare war, despite being provoked to.
1942
- With an effort comparable to the OTL attack against Russia, Egypt and the Middle East is conquered, as well as Sudan and other British possessions in the area.
- Russia starts the attack against Persia, thus entering the war against Britain and becoming part of the Axis.
- Oil now comes from Libya, too.
.
Quite how the Germans get Libya when they have just declared war on Italy is unclear.

Even if they do the supply lines support a maximum of four divisions, making taking Egypt quite tricky.
I suspect Stalin will simply attack Hitler in 1942 once all his armed forces are in the Mediteranean.
 
Wozza said:
Quite how the Germans get Libya when they have just declared war on Italy is unclear.

Even if they do the supply lines support a maximum of four divisions, making taking Egypt quite tricky.
I suspect Stalin will simply attack Hitler in 1942 once all his armed forces are in the Mediteranean.

I supposed it would be as quick an operation as the ones in 1943 against Italy and and France - lasting only a few weeks or months.

After that, Germany should have enough (partly Italian) ships and airplanes to send troops to Libya, especially if Greece has also fallen. With no war against Russia, much more support for Africa than IOTL should be possible - I don't know how much though.

I didn't mean to weaken German defense to the east (and to the west) too much - about a quarter to a half of the lighter German mobile units should be enough to completely overwhelm anything the British had there in 1941.

It's also part of this strategy to have Russia feel like an ally of Germany, further dividing Europe and the Mideast among them. If their troops are occupied in the south, an attack on Germany is less likely imo.

There's also always the option of returning the troops within a few months should the situation get critical.
 
The problem is that if the Germans are actually invading Italy it is going to be very easy for the British to overwhelm Libya, in fact the Italians will not be fighting back.
The Germans will lose most of the Italian navy and Darlan may move closer to the Allies - Hitler's already poor reputation would have moved downhill, not even his best friend is safe!

In the short term the Germans have been robbed of strength. The Italian army will actually be tougher at this date. Although German strength will be overwhelming they have less presence down the peninsular.

The problem is why would the Germans do it - they can send men to Libya anyway
 
Wozza said:
The problem is that if the Germans are actually invading Italy it is going to be very easy for the British to overwhelm Libya, in fact the Italians will not be fighting back.
The Germans will lose most of the Italian navy and Darlan may move closer to the Allies - Hitler's already poor reputation would have moved downhill, not even his best friend is safe!

In the short term the Germans have been robbed of strength. The Italian army will actually be tougher at this date. Although German strength will be overwhelming they have less presence down the peninsular.

The problem is why would the Germans do it - they can send men to Libya anyway

I suppose the Germans could find some reason to take over that would make the Italiens not change sides - at least not all of them. Also, in 1941 the problems would be smaller than in 1943. At a time they are only fighting against Britain, they can afford loosing a little bit of strength for a short time. Just one year later, it should pay off due to better usage of Italian capacities (better weapons, better tanks, better planes...). I also suppose the take over will happen in a concerted action, partly covered as help for Italy, so that there are Germans in Libya securing that place.
 
Hey jolo,

would you mind starting a new thread for your TL and copy the stuff you wrote there? This thread here is going too messy.

BTW, Hitler supported Mussolini (which might've lost the war for him) because Mussolini had supported him back in the 30s, when he went for Austria and the Sudetenland.
 
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