Johan Maurits von Nassau

[Cahaya Purnama]

So I want to make map with POD that Johan Maurits retains control of Brazil

I also plan Preventing or at least delaying the first Anglo-Dutch war would also help Dutch because when the Dutch were distracted by it, the Portuguese managed to capture Brasil.

What shall change?

I imagine that treaty with Portuguese shall be other than OTL Portuguese shall in Brazil cede all area North of river São Francisco to Netherlands, Loango-Angola and Timor then Netherlands shall return Brazil south of São Francisco to Portuguese

I also imagine because of that in Alt Treaty of Madrid Portuguese was allowed to retain area west of Tordesillas but must limit themself to Parana and São Francisco Rivers to west and Iguazu river in South

While WIC and VOC were always different companies So I tnink this shall not hinder Dutch colonization of Indonesia.

But what other thing can this POD change?

Your thought?

 

[Parma]

My best gues is that the river São Francisco river will be the Southern borderof Dutch Brazil. It depends on a pease treaty if all of the teritory North of this river will be under dutch rule.
Amoung the Brazilian trade post/colonie almost half a dozen Portuguese West African trade posts, some in presend day Angola, were ocupied by the Dutch even after the Dutch lost Luanda.
If these trade post can be kept, it will be intersting if a Cape Colony will be established by the VOC.
One result of the loss of Dutch Brazil was the setlement of Portuguese Jews in New Amsterdam (New York) fleeing from Brazil. If Dutch Brazil survive the arival of Jews in New Amsterdam will delay for a decade or so.
The WIC was a debt ridden company which accumulated a massive debt due to the wars against Portugual. The concept of a monopoly company like the East Indian companies did not work on the Atlantic trade.
If Dutch Brazil survive the political presure will be increasing to end the charter of the WIC which also can have a major effect on other lesser trade post and colonies like New Amsterdam (New York).

The Dutch republic never had population colonies, like the English and French North Amrecan colonies. New Holland/New Amsterdam was the clossest it get. Cape colony was heavily restricted by the rules of the VOC who owned it.

If inturn Dutch Brazil and possible New Amsterdam, if remaining Dutch, turn in to some real population colonies, then the Dutch Republic will have over several decades a larger population and power base. If population colonies are sucessful, read cost less in protection than this can have affect on a VOC refreshing station at the Cape, resulting in a real, independent population colony at on Southern Africa whihc again will increase the power base of the Dutch republic

 

[Cahaya Purnama]

My best gues is that the river São Francisco river will be the Southern borderof Dutch Brazil. It depends on a pease treaty if all of the teritory North of this river will be under dutch rule.
Amoung the Brazilian trade post/colonie almost half a dozen Portuguese West African trade posts, some in presend day Angola, were ocupied by the Dutch even after the Dutch lost Luanda.
If these trade post can be kept, it will be intersting if a Cape Colony will be established by the VOC.
One result of the loss of Dutch Brazil was the setlement of Portuguese Jews in New Amsterdam (New York) fleeing from Brazil. If Dutch Brazil survive the arival of Jews in New Amsterdam will delay for a decade or so.
The WIC was a debt ridden company which accumulated a massive debt due to the wars against Portugual. The concept of a monopoly company like the East Indian companies did not work on the Atlantic trade.
If Dutch Brazil survive the political presure will be increasing to end the charter of the WIC which also can have a major effect on other lesser trade post and colonies like New Amsterdam (New York).

The Dutch republic never had population colonies, like the English and French North Amrecan colonies. New Holland/New Amsterdam was the clossest it get. Cape colony was heavily restricted by the rules of the VOC who owned it.

If inturn Dutch Brazil and possible New Amsterdam, if remaining Dutch, turn in to some real population colonies, then the Dutch Republic will have over several decades a larger population and power base. If population colonies are sucessful, read cost less in protection than this can have affect on a VOC refreshing station at the Cape, resulting in a real, independent population colony at on Southern Africa whihc again will increase the power base of the Dutch republic

All. Including Portuguese northern Brazil (does it have seperate name from Southern Brazil?)

Because of that I imagine that Dutch shall want to have land connection between Brazil and Guiana. possibly French Guiana shall be butterflied and possibly French can not take Brazil during French-Dutch war.

But what shall Spanish do to border with Netherlands?

Hm perhaps Dutch Cape Colony shall be delayed because of their control of Loango-Angola

So there is possiblity that Dutch North America can survive if WIC nationalized?

Also what shall Portuguese do?

 

[Parma]

Guyana, would possible remain English, since Dutch Brazil or New Holland as it is called, is already the suggar colony.
WIC would never be nationalized, the charter would simply not be renewed.
The Dutch republic was the Capitalist Liberal Nation pur sang, the State did not own any thing. even the State war fleet was payed by the shipping and trading companies.
If the WIC was dissolved the trade post and shipping/trade lanes would be taken over by other companies. New Amsterdam (New York) and other towns in New Netherlands, (or Nova Belgica) would granted city rights as the cities in the Dutch republic and would be ruled by their own citizens.
New Amsterdam recieved several city rights in 1652 in OTL.
Probably the whole North Amrecan colony would be ruled as a Province in the dutch republic. A Province in the dutch republic was defacto an independent state exept for forreign matters.
The war in Brazil was initiall only a war between the WIC and the Brazilians, the WIC only was too eager, while it was out of resources, and continue to threathen Salvador de Bahia, which triggered the active invlovement of the Portuguese.


I do not know what the Portuguese do, probably nothing as they did after the OTL peace treaty of 1661.
The Spanish would do nothing any more, the Spanish Netherlands bordered the Dutch Republic to both satisfaction. Unless a Grand Pensioner ( the PM ) of the Dutch republic will fall for an offer of Louis XIV to devide the Spanish Netherlands as proposed in OTL.

 

[wietze]

All. Hm perhaps Dutch Cape Colony shall be delayed because of their control of Loango-Angola

no, the cape is just too convenient as a waypost for shipping to the east-indies. furthermore loanga-angola is just too lethal to europeans, the cape has a much better climate, and less diseases.

also the loanga-angola area was for trading not for colonising, the cape was a colony, 2 different purposes.

 

[Cahaya Purnama]

Guyana, would possible remain English, since Dutch Brazil or New Holland as it is called, is already the suggar colony.

I do not know what the Portuguese do, probably nothing as they did after the OTL peace treaty of 1661.
The Spanish would do nothing any more, the Spanish Netherlands bordered the Dutch Republic to both satisfaction. Unless a Grand Pensioner ( the PM ) of the Dutch republic will fall for an offer of Louis XIV to devide the Spanish Netherlands as proposed in OTL.

Guiana remain British? IIRC British was the one who discover Guiana but Dutch was the one who colonize it.

But what shall they do to recompensated their losses? focusing in Mozambique?

If he fall to the offer what shall happen to Brazil and Guiana if Spanish won?

no, the cape is just too convenient as a waypost for shipping to the east-indies. furthermore loanga-angola is just too lethal to europeans, the cape has a much better climate, and less diseases.

also the loanga-angola area was for trading not for colonising, the cape was a colony, 2 different purposes.

If that is the case shall the Dutch want bigger Cape Colony to more effective defense for Loanga-Angola and Cape? After all in OTL there was way too many restriction...

 

[Parma]

Guyana was a sugar flint colony of the English, which was aquired after OTL 2nd Anglo-Dutch war and trade with New Amsterdam.
OTL this seems strange, but at that time Guyana was far more profitable than a sttler colony as New Amsterdam/New York.

Mozambique was nothing more than a slave station for the Portuguese. The most important commodity of all European trade posts in Afraca were humans. The plantation system arived only in the 19th century in Africa, somost likly the Portuguese were happy what the had left. Brazil South of the Sao Fransco is still a huge part of real estate.

The Cape colony was in itial a refresing station, established by the VOC, a plublic traded company. Suppose it transfered in a settler colony wihout nay VOC restrictions it will just develop as OTL only with a larger influx of colonist and a more structured government. The last thing would be provided by a council of colonist as happened in New Amsterdam.

The war with Spain ended in 1648.

 

[wietze]

If that is the case shall the Dutch want bigger Cape Colony to more effective defense for Loanga-Angola and Cape? After all in OTL there was way too many restriction...

you are mixing 2 things up, i think you do not realise how much the VOC and WIC were opponents. Loanga-Angola is WIC territory, the Cape is VOC territory.

Mozambique was nothing more than a slave station for the Portuguese. The most important commodity of all European trade posts in Afraca were humans. .

wrong, 13% of the WIC income was from slaves, 75% from the gold trade.

 

[Gonzaga]

Mozambique was nothing more than a slave station for the Portuguese.

I believe that Mozambique was much more important as a source of gold and ivory than slaves. While the Portuguese certainly explored the slave trade in Eastern Africa, the human commerce from Angola and the Guinea was much more important and profitable.

 

[Parma]

I may be incorrect of the major commodity of the African strade post, never the less all of them were too lethal as sttlement colony for Europeans until the advent of medicins like quinine, with exception of the Cape colony.
Surinam was trade after OTL 2nd Anglo/Dutch war with New York.
Portugula was a thin polpulated country it did not have the population for large sttler colonies, just like the Dutch.