Is it possible for the Carolingian Empire to endure?

[gianni_rivera]

If Charles Martel decide that only the senior son/ his most capable son would hold (most of the) political power, that he decided against dividing his realm?

Can the empire endure?

ASAIK it is the first 'peak' of Europe since the Roman days. If the empire can endure or sustain in a reasonable way. Can the renaissance come back earlier that the Empire pick up the lost science/ technology of the antiquity?

I do not know too much about history in those days, I wish it is not too ASB.

 

[LSCatilina]

If Charles Martel decide that only the senior son/ his most capable son would hold (most of the) political power, that he decided against dividing his realm?

History wasn't a Crusader Kings game, when people could "choose" to change the laws, if it humoured them.
The concept of primogeniture was unknown when it came to kingship, critically when the Frankish political succession was about dividing the fisc and sharing kingship or at least power.

Would have he done that, Carloman would have certainly rebelled, supported by many Frankish (and possibly ennemy of Charles as well). Of course, it could have ended with Pepin III victory, but it would have weakened enough his dominion when Peppinid lacked legitimacy enough that they had to crown a Merovingian when they came to power.

Can the empire endure?

As for Rome, Carolingia fall under a whole net of factors.
Abassid economical collapse, that not only harmed its own but provoked a push for Scandinavian raids; change of social paradigm towards feudalism (Basically, Carolingian tried to introduce a generalized vassality, instead of a limited one, and it backfired); no more "good" conquest to do forcing to a re-focus on inner matters; climatic changes and lower agricultural productivity, etc.

The look of the empire was good, but it's like gold on rotten wood. Sooner or later, these issues were to appear.

ASAIK it is the first 'peak' of Europe since the Roman days.

Carolingians were really about gloryfing themselves (admittedly they had to, because their legitimacy was somewhat dubious at first), and that they did a good job getting rid of Merovingian archives.
Truth is that without Merovingian Francia grounds, Peppinids/Carolingians didn't had a real chance to pull an empire.

If the empire can endure or sustain in a reasonable way. Can the renaissance come back earlier that the Empire pick up the lost science/ technology of the antiquity?

Carolingian Renaissance was essentially an elite renaissance, with little to no impact on imperial structures. It wasn't even tought in a different way : it was about elites being structured imperially.
Technological or Science wasn't their main focuses (not that it was "lost". Without countring Byzantines or Arabs there; it was present just roughly unused), and these didn't had a real gap between Late Roman Empire and, say, XIth century.

People didn't just became stupid in 476.

I do not know too much about history in those days, I wish it is not too ASB.

Well, it is, but given the ammount of BS you can have on this period, I don't think anyone would blame you.

 

[Draco]

Realistically for something like this to happen you'd need repeat the circumstances of Louis the Pious' inheritance multiple times over where for whatever reason only one son outlives his father. Follow this up with an Emperor dying with only one adult son but at least one or two others who haven't reached an age where they wouldn't have be granted their own fiefs yet. The older brother now Emperor want's to leave as much of the Empire intact for himself and his children only grants modest estates and titles to his brothers. If but more likely when his brothers mount a rebellion they're crushed thus the principles of defacto Primogeniture is established. As LSCatilina says it would not just have been as easy as issuing a decree or clicking a button

 

[Mikestone8]

Realistically for something like this to happen you'd need repeat the circumstances of Louis the Pious' inheritance multiple times over where for whatever reason only one son outlives his father. Follow this up with an Emperor dying with only one adult son but at least one or two others who haven't reached an age where they wouldn't have be granted their own fiefs yet. The older brother now Emperor want's to leave as much of the Empire intact for himself and his children only grants modest estates and titles to his brothers. If but more likely when his brothers mount a rebellion they're crushed thus the principles of defacto Primogeniture is established. As LSCatilina says it would not just have been as easy as issuing a decree or clicking a button

Or if they do the partition a different way.

Iirc, Charlemagne's original plan was to give one son Aquitaine and Burgundy, another Italy and Bavaria, and his eldest son the remainder. Had this gone ahead, the northern kingdom would have been head and shoulders above the other two, and that ascendancy might have proved permanent. OTL, though, it was wrecked by two of the sons predeceasing their father, and subsequent partitions were done differently.

 

[Ultimate Paragon]

Or if they do the partition a different way.

Iirc, Charlemagne's original plan was to give one son Aquitaine and Burgundy, another Italy and Bavaria, and his eldest son the remainder. Had this gone ahead, the northern kingdom would have been head and shoulders above the other two, and that ascendancy might have proved permanent. OTL, though, it was wrecked by two of the sons predeceasing their father, and subsequent partitions were done differently.

I think I read that somewhere, too.

 

[LSCatilina]

Realistically for something like this to happen you'd need repeat the circumstances of Louis the Pious' inheritance multiple times over where for whatever reason only one son outlives his father.

Even that would be probably fought over. Remember Bernard of Italy's fate. In spite of not being Louis' son, he still argued of his claim on Italian kingship.

(As for Frankish rulers systematically running out of bad luck, and having only one surviving son for decades...I'm not sure that we're still speaking realistically to be honest )

Once Carolingian made clear that you could overrun a dynasty when this dynasty wasn't worthy enough...It was gonna backfire one way or another.

If but more likely when his brothers mount a rebellion they're crushed thus the principles of defacto Primogeniture is established.

The most important problem is that you overlook the premices of feudal system there. Louis's sons rebellion were supported by a whole lot of nobles, at the point the emperor was virtually alone on battlefield.
It's not like bishops were in great help there, they actually did what the emperor asked them : to criticize him. They complied.

At this point, the reducement of Frankish fisc (public land inherited from Late Empire), the growing independence of nobles (not only military, but territorialy) made the possibility of bloody battle to crush revolt, bleeding white Frankish nobility only for Carolingian benefit...limited.

Or if they do the partition a different way.

They did tried that, without 817 partition, you have a more than a dozen more made by Louis I, that simply didn't pleased all (if any) of his sons.

At this point, it was quite clear than any share of the imperium that wasn't based on fight wasn't going to be respected. Each pretender wanted as much as he could, and didn't cared about well-intended plans for the sake of the empire (even the OI of Charlemagne you quote never was about that, the imperial title not being intended to outlive Charlemagne)