Ireland in WW2 - effects on the Troubles?

[trekchu]

Supposing that Ireland enters the war at some point, say, 1941 after the Germans bomb Dublin by mistake or something. Ireland is turned into a base for the Battle of the Atlantic, maybe even sends a Brigade to fight in Italy or France later on, but first and foremost has a closer relationship with the British and the Allies.

What effect would that have on the troubles when/if they start?

 

[zeppelin247]

I am guessing this is for your against all odds thread

listen what you have to realise is the troubles did not start because of anything relating to the South or a general feeling of nationalism within the Catholic population, I mean all you have to look at is all the IRA border campaigns and just see how the average person took no interest in the. The reason the troubles happened was because the Unionist government was openly discriminating against Catholics really on all levels really and when Catholics marched for civil rights. It was the attacks on the marches and people being burned out of their homes on the lower falls road by Unionists after being told by Ian Paisley the NICRA was a front for the IRA when it no connections in any form. IT was things like the NICRA marches being banned and attacked constantly like in Derry at the battle of the bogside. Those things started the troubles really. I mean the British wanted rid of Northern Ireland, the South just wouldn't take it, so no matter what the different relationship with Britain is unless you change the government in Northern Ireland and the attitude of Unionists like Paisley the troubles will still start

 

[krull1m]

No positive difference at all. The troubles werent caused by the governments of either country, it was entirely the blame of the lunatic fringes on both sides that would not accept the situation as it was and decided to use terrorism to get try and get what they wanted.

There might (and its a big might) have been better co-operation from the ROI government regarding chasing IRA members hiding south of the border, but just the ROI being involved in the fighting wouldnt change attitudes towards Northern Ireland at all.

It could potentially make the situation worse, or make it all start earlier. There could be trained and experienced soldiers who come back from the war and decided that now was a good time to try to take back NI. Or at least start to get everything organised and ready, training others, acquiring weapons, that sort of thing.

Nothing either government did would have prevented the troubles from happening, even had the British decided to walk away from NI (something they couldnt do) would provoke trouble from the lunatics that didnt want to be joined with the ROI.

 

[trekchu]

I indeed intend to put the Troubles into AAO at some point, but not for a VERY long while yet. At the moment I am mostly just interested.

 

[The Oncoming Storm]

I think for Ireland to enter WW2 Michael Collins needs to survive the Civil War and become the dominant political figure in the new state. With De Valera and Fianna Fail only being a minor force, if it still existed, then De Valera's 1937 Constitution with the territorial claim over NI never happen, this could allow a warmer North-South relationship to develop, by all accounts Collins and Craig got on well during the Treaty negotiations and Craig felt he could trust Collins.

A better relationship could see Ireland join the War at some point or take a more pro-Allied neutrality. Another effect of a better relationship would be that the Irish government would raise concerns about the treatment of Northern Nationalists with London that would possibly be prepared to press Stormont to address their greivances. Britain's big mistake regarding NI was that after partition it left Stormont to it's own devices and took no interest in what was happening. It wasn't until the Civil Rights Movement that British politicians and society finally woke up to what was happening in NI and was not impressed. Most of the reform that the O'Neill government carried out was as a direct result of British pressure, O'Neill was no bigot but he lacked the political courage to tackle hardliners like Paisley and Bill Craig.

So had the issue of discrimination been tackled before the 1960's then I think it's likely the Troubles and most of the other violent episodes could be butterflied away. Really all that was needed was for the Unionists to have just treated the Nationalists fairly as Carson had implored them to do in the aftermath of partition.

 

[SlickWilly]

No United Ireland would have been granted regardless. Actually I maintain if the ROI was in the war actively of course on the Allied side it could paradoxically have prolonged the war/emergency. Why? Because the RAF would be distracted by having to defend the Irish Coast! BTW The Irish propoganda radio station in Berlin controlled by The Nazis always urged the Irish to keep their nutrality - Coinnigh do neodrach! Pardon my Irish spelling! Excellent free download available on ROI and WW2 and many other national and international topics of historical interest at www.newstalk.ie in the 'Talking History' series.

 

[trekchu]

Not neccesarily. If they enter in 1941, the first USAAC might go there instead of southern England though.