Let's say the 1980's go a bit differently for the USSR, and that Gorbachev's reforms don't lead to the collapse of the country. Instead, there is a period of harsh crackdowns followed by very limited economic reform. What this means is the Eastern bloc survives into the 21st century. My question is--how would the Soviet Union react to the internet? Would it build a gigantic firewall like China, or would it create its' own pseudo-internet of networked computers within the Eastern bloc, but cut off from the West? Also, how would the increased computational abilities effect the USSR if the communist leadership decided to put computerize the centrally planned economy?
Internet with a surviving Soviet Union
- Thread starter Leistungsfähiger Amerikan
- Start date
That was my original thought. Rather than going the OTL Chinese route of building an internet firewall, I could see the USSR deciding not to give into the USA's dominance of the internet and instead create its' own network. While it obviously wouldn't be as large or as good, the goal would be to A)Deny people access to Western news media and B) Deny the USA a propaganda victory of 'creating' the internet.
Do the Powers That Be in the USSR really want the sort of free-flowing information the Internet provides?
Do they want bloggers criticizing the Politburo? Or, worse, the Party?
Do they want people posting pictures of the Commissar's new house?
The anonymity the Internet offers would make the KGB, GRU, and every other security agency have a heart attack.
Do they want bloggers criticizing the Politburo? Or, worse, the Party?
Do they want people posting pictures of the Commissar's new house?
The anonymity the Internet offers would make the KGB, GRU, and every other security agency have a heart attack.
Who knew about any of this when it just started up? Of course they would get cold feet later on, but the Two Internets existing would still be a reality.
I'd expect it to be much more limited - access to computers would probably be limited to an academic context, so there'd be fewer people on their internet. This would probably lead to a much more close-knit community based on shared experiences, rather than the freely-flowing information and opinion exchange we have when it's accessible to everyone.
It would continue, but not as a open network, the government would realize its importance and potential for military and government communications. They would keep it but restrict access to government, the military, and loyal elements of the party leadership.
It would be created, exist for a decade or so until it becomes really useful to someone other than accountants, then the authorities will try to shut it down. They will utterly fail at it like they failed at all real control, and the technology would survive unless they actually dismantle the hardware.
To compound the issue, there will be Soviet programmer etc. leaving the country all the time anyway and probably integrating some ideas into the "American" internet, allowing potentially interoperability. If that ever happens AND there's no hardware shutdown, one might see the Great Firewall situation.
However, a lot of this hinges on the hardware being there in the first place. A computer-friendly USSR that wants to exchange economic data for planning purposes "inventing" the "internet" first and THEN realising that normal people can use it too seems a sort of more rational scenario.
In that case the fight would be against the personal computer rather than the network.
Tallest Skil
Banned
Why do we assume a separate Internet?
The Soviet Union had their own country code. It's still used.
http://www.sai.msu.su/
The Soviet Union had their own country code. It's still used.
http://www.sai.msu.su/
The PRC needs to build a firewall because economically it does a pretty good job of letting its citizens have consumer goods like cell phones and personal computers. The USSR was much more of a basket case.
At least they could still have Facebook. The government would already know all that information anyway.
And for those of us who remember the net before the web, here's a blast from the past. I think they might have moved beyond UUCP by now. 
From chernenko@kremvax.UUCP Sun Apr 1 15:02:52 1984
Relay-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 (MC840302); site mcvax.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 4/1/84 (SU840401); site kremvax.UUCP
Path: mcvax!moskvax!kremvax!chernenko
From: chernenko@kremvax.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.general,eunet.general,net.politics,eunet.politics
Subject: USSR on Usenet
Message-ID: <0001@kremvax.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 1-Apr-84 15:02:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: kremvax.0001
Posted: Sun Apr 1 15:02:52 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 1-Apr-84 12:26:02 GMT
Organization: MIIA, Moscow
Lines: 41
<.....>
Well, today, 840401, this is at last the Socialist Union of Soviet
Republics joining the Usenet network and saying hallo to everybody.
One reason for us to join this network has been to have a means of
having an open discussion forum with the American and European people
and making clear to them our strong efforts towards attaining peaceful
coexistence between the people of the Soviet Union and those of the
United States and Europe.
We have been informed that on this network many people have given strong
anti-Russian opinions, but we believe they have been misguided by their
leaders, especially the American administration, who is seeking for war
and domination of the world.
By well informing those people from our side we hope to have a possibility
to make clear to them our intentions and ideas.
Some of those in the Western world, who believe in the truth of what we
say have made possible our entry on this network; to them we are very
grateful. We hereby invite you to freely give your comments and opinions.
Here are the data for our backbone site:
Name: moskvax
Organization: Moscow Institute for International Affairs
Contact: K. Chernenko
Phone: +7 095 840401
Postal-Address: Moscow, Soviet Union
Electronic-Address: mcvax!moskvax!kremvax!chernenko
News: mcvax kremvax kgbvax
Mail: mcvax kremvax kgbvax
And now, let's open a flask of Vodka and have a drink on our entry on
this network. So:
NA ZDAROVJE!
--
K. Chernenko, Moscow, USSR
...{decvax,philabs}!mcvax!moskvax!kremvax!chernenko
From chernenko@kremvax.UUCP Sun Apr 1 15:02:52 1984
Relay-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 (MC840302); site mcvax.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 4/1/84 (SU840401); site kremvax.UUCP
Path: mcvax!moskvax!kremvax!chernenko
From: chernenko@kremvax.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.general,eunet.general,net.politics,eunet.politics
Subject: USSR on Usenet
Message-ID: <0001@kremvax.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 1-Apr-84 15:02:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: kremvax.0001
Posted: Sun Apr 1 15:02:52 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 1-Apr-84 12:26:02 GMT
Organization: MIIA, Moscow
Lines: 41
<.....>
Well, today, 840401, this is at last the Socialist Union of Soviet
Republics joining the Usenet network and saying hallo to everybody.
One reason for us to join this network has been to have a means of
having an open discussion forum with the American and European people
and making clear to them our strong efforts towards attaining peaceful
coexistence between the people of the Soviet Union and those of the
United States and Europe.
We have been informed that on this network many people have given strong
anti-Russian opinions, but we believe they have been misguided by their
leaders, especially the American administration, who is seeking for war
and domination of the world.
By well informing those people from our side we hope to have a possibility
to make clear to them our intentions and ideas.
Some of those in the Western world, who believe in the truth of what we
say have made possible our entry on this network; to them we are very
grateful. We hereby invite you to freely give your comments and opinions.
Here are the data for our backbone site:
Name: moskvax
Organization: Moscow Institute for International Affairs
Contact: K. Chernenko
Phone: +7 095 840401
Postal-Address: Moscow, Soviet Union
Electronic-Address: mcvax!moskvax!kremvax!chernenko
News: mcvax kremvax kgbvax
Mail: mcvax kremvax kgbvax
And now, let's open a flask of Vodka and have a drink on our entry on
this network. So:
NA ZDAROVJE!
--
K. Chernenko, Moscow, USSR
...{decvax,philabs}!mcvax!moskvax!kremvax!chernenko
Drat! I was just getting ready to mention the kremvax hoax...
"The internet" as we know it uses routing protocols that were designed to route around failed nodes. The assumed failure mode was that the node was now radioactive gas after being within the blast radius of a Soviet nuke. Failover and re-routing were designed to be automatic, the assumption being that any techs or admins would be dead or leaving the area rapidly.
What a great number of people *want* isn't "the internet" as we know it, but a big mainframe with a bunch of terminals, like Compuserve or AOL. Authentication to log in, no spam, no pop-unders, no phishing, instant punishment for offenders. Just the ticket for a Soviet-style culture. And most people wouldn't know the difference between hanging off a terminal or having an open network.
With connectivity and storage under Party control, the Party could push the official line will silently censoring opposition.
Properly handled down at the (small S) soviet level, it could be a big win for the Party, giving the mass citizenry the experience of having a direct voice in their affairs while carefully logging anything that might be useful against them later, sort of like corporate e-mail...
"The internet" as we know it uses routing protocols that were designed to route around failed nodes. The assumed failure mode was that the node was now radioactive gas after being within the blast radius of a Soviet nuke. Failover and re-routing were designed to be automatic, the assumption being that any techs or admins would be dead or leaving the area rapidly.
What a great number of people *want* isn't "the internet" as we know it, but a big mainframe with a bunch of terminals, like Compuserve or AOL. Authentication to log in, no spam, no pop-unders, no phishing, instant punishment for offenders. Just the ticket for a Soviet-style culture. And most people wouldn't know the difference between hanging off a terminal or having an open network.
With connectivity and storage under Party control, the Party could push the official line will silently censoring opposition.
Properly handled down at the (small S) soviet level, it could be a big win for the Party, giving the mass citizenry the experience of having a direct voice in their affairs while carefully logging anything that might be useful against them later, sort of like corporate e-mail...
Didnt we have a big thread about this the other month?
I would imagine a seperate eastern block internet, cut off from the western one. They'd need a internet, they always like to play oneupmanship with the west.
However...they would need some access to the regular internet. Their scientists would demand it to do their job right.
I would imagine a seperate eastern block internet, cut off from the western one. They'd need a internet, they always like to play oneupmanship with the west.
However...they would need some access to the regular internet. Their scientists would demand it to do their job right.
NothingNow
Banned
I'll disagree with that:
It'd probably be a two or three in one thing:
1) A (Heavily controlled and censored) Teletext and Email service for the public, maybe with a BBS system and some polling features, with a distinct lack of anonymity. (Basically RealID+Ceefax+semi-passive NKVD surveillance.)
2)A System suspiciously similar to USENET/DARPANET for Science stuff and the military.
3)A system of dumb terminals to allow distributed and still centralized Data storage for Government files. Probably lots of stuff for the NKVD as well.
All (hopefully) using a TCP-derivative with similar design philosophy to DARPANET to deal with node failures.
Last edited:
Post by Commisar1917
Wrong!! If Ptolemaic Egypt survive to modern day then it would have adopted glorious Marxist system following revolution of 1930 in which captitalist Egyptian would be overthrown by the People's Workers and Peasant Red Army of the Nile. The USSR would of course welcome the Egyptian SSR into the glorious Soviet Union and better spread world wide revolution into the Africa.
USSR #1 capitalist dog!!
USA#1 said:
Wrong!! If Ptolemaic Egypt survive to modern day then it would have adopted glorious Marxist system following revolution of 1930 in which captitalist Egyptian would be overthrown by the People's Workers and Peasant Red Army of the Nile. The USSR would of course welcome the Egyptian SSR into the glorious Soviet Union and better spread world wide revolution into the Africa.
USSR #1 capitalist dog!!