Interesting Discrepancy in Albert Speer's Memoirs...

AbeLincoln1865

AbeLincoln1865

In his famous book, Inside the Third Reich, Albert Speer wrote one of the most useful accounts from Hitler's inner circle. As the Minister of Armaments, Speer was obviously concerned with economic matters. On pages 405-406 he recalls how in early September 1944, he calculated German industry would get its last supply of Chromium on June 1 1945. Upon reading this I was intrigued and decided to do my own research. According to this rather comprehensive paper: https://opus4.kobv.de/opus4-fau/files/865/MuratOnsoyDissertation.pdf and my own calculations using the data within (All taken from Chapter 3), I present the following overview of Germany's Chrome situation: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1idGR1Bb0CmFrKA6lNIHgm_Rx4dMOavThOdGdK6Ungfs/edit#gid=0
According to these numbers, Germany would have ran out of Chrome on May 1 not June 1. In order for Speer's calculation to be correct, Germany would have had to get an extra 8,000 tons of Chrome between January 1 1945 and the end of the war in Europe. The only possible source I can think of is Sweden, but they ended trade with Germany on September 27 1944. What do my fellow members make of this discrepancy?
 
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b0ned0me

The main use of chromium is in making alloy steel. Stainless steel, tool steel, generally hard and tough steel. Krupp Cemented Armour steel was about 2% chromium.
Rockets, jets and shiny accurate long-life barrels were all sort of nice to have but if not as vital as decent steel.
 

Tonrich

Didn't they need a high percentage of Chromium in the production of the turbo fan blades for the jet engines?
 

Deleted member 1487

AbeLincoln1865 said:
In his famous book, Inside the Third Reich, Albert Speer wrote one of the most useful accounts from Hitler's inner circle. As the Minister of Armaments, Speer was obviously concerned with economic matters. On pages 405-406 he recalls how in early September 1944, he calculated German industry would get its last supply of Chromium on June 1 1945. Upon reading this I was intrigued and decided to do my own research. According to this rather comprehensive paper: https://opus4.kobv.de/opus4-fau/files/865/MuratOnsoyDissertation.pdf and my own calculations using the data within(All taken from Chapter 3), I present the following overview of Germany's Chrome situation: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1idGR1Bb0CmFrKA6lNIHgm_Rx4dMOavThOdGdK6Ungfs/edit#gid=0
According to these numbers, Germany would have ran out of Chrome on May 1 not June 1. In order for Speer's calculation to be correct, Germany would have had to get an extra 8,000 tons of Chrome between January 1 1945 and the end of the war in Europe. The only possible source I can think of is Sweden, but they ended trade with Germany on September 27 1944. What do my fellow members make of this discrepancy?
Click to expand...
He makes a bunch of errors in the book, it is not remotely surprising that he'd make yet another.

Tonrich said:
Didn't they need a high percentage of Chromium in the production of the turbo fan blades for the jet engines?
Click to expand...
What do you consider high? The Cromadur alloy was a reduction in demand compared to the earlier designs; the alloy was 12% Chromium, but the blades that they were used with were very light and hollow to let air flow cool them.
 

b0ned0me

Tonrich said:
Didn't they need a high percentage of Chromium in the production of the turbo fan blades for the jet engines?
Click to expand...
Relatively high, but how many jet engines did they make? The cited number is 8,000 tons for one months usage and each Jumo 004 would only need a few kilos max. Maybe a few tons per month total when jet engine production was at its height?
 

Lost Freeway

Banned
If Germany had only been able to get a little more chrome, they would've beaten back the Allies and established their glorious Thousand-Year Reich!:p
 

Peebothuhlu

At work.

IC engines needed/used more chrome than turbine blade weight per horse-power/thrust.

Which is why the Germans went for poor quality iron engine blocks with 'Sleeve' cylinder liners etc to stretch things out towards the end.

Other than being a relatively fledgling technology (Germany began their research in the... 1920's?) turbines were still better 'bounce per ounce' as it were.
 

sloreck

IMHO the biggest problem Germany had with things like chromium and other key raw materials was only in part issues with quantity. At least until close to the end of the war, there was really no rational distribution of stuff in short supply. as has been discussed often here, there were so many projects working at cross purposes run by different elements all busy building their own empire everyone snatching whatever they could for their pet projects. This sort of things made every shortage even worse.
 

trurle

Banned
AbeLincoln1865 said:
In his famous book, Inside the Third Reich, Albert Speer wrote one of the most useful accounts from Hitler's inner circle. As the Minister of Armaments, Speer was obviously concerned with economic matters. On pages 405-406 he recalls how in early September 1944, he calculated German industry would get its last supply of Chromium on June 1 1945. Upon reading this I was intrigued and decided to do my own research. According to this rather comprehensive paper: https://opus4.kobv.de/opus4-fau/files/865/MuratOnsoyDissertation.pdf and my own calculations using the data within(All taken from Chapter 3), I present the following overview of Germany's Chrome situation: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1idGR1Bb0CmFrKA6lNIHgm_Rx4dMOavThOdGdK6Ungfs/edit#gid=0
According to these numbers, Germany would have ran out of Chrome on May 1 not June 1. In order for Speer's calculation to be correct, Germany would have had to get an extra 8,000 tons of Chrome between January 1 1945 and the end of the war in Europe. The only possible source I can think of is Sweden, but they ended trade with Germany on September 27 1944. What do my fellow members make of this discrepancy?
Click to expand...
Chromium usage calculations are not going to be accurate, not down to the month. For example, one calculation may include minimal chromium contents in steel while another calculation may use nominal chromium contents. Also, railroad situation in late 1944 in Germany was already chaotic, so some ferro-chrome loads may be double counted or erroneously not counted as "lost in transit". Furthermore, the different lists of chromium compounds may be used - and i think it is most likely explanation. For example, hexavalent chromium compound used to make chromium coating cannot be used to alloy steel. For alloy steel you need ferro-chrome. May be 1st May 1945 is for ferro-chrome only, but 1st June 1945 include hexavalent chromium stockpile?
 

Carl Schwamberger

trurle said:
Chromium usage calculations are not going to be accurate, not down to the month. For example, one calculation may include minimal chromium contents in steel while another calculation may use nominal chromium contents. Also, railroad situation in late 1944 in Germany was already chaotic, so some ferro-chrome loads may be double counted or erroneously not counted as "lost in transit". Furthermore, the different lists of chromium compounds may be used - and i think it is most likely explanation. For example, hexavalent chromium compound used to make chromium coating cannot be used to alloy steel. For alloy steel you need ferro-chrome. May be 1st May 1945 is for ferro-chrome only, but 1st June 1945 include hexavalent chromium stockpile?
Click to expand...

Any references you can recommend for that last item ? My schooling in metallurgy dates back to 1974.
 
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