Imperium Libertatis

THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES

[FONT=&quot]THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Preamble[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Article I.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Section 1. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 2.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The House of Representatives shall be composed of members chosen every second year by the people of the several states, and the electors in each state shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the state legislature.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty five years, and been seven years a citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state in which he shall be chosen.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, as well as the whole number of all other Persons and including all inhabitant Indians.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] The actual Enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct. The number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty thousand, but each state shall have at least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the state of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
When vacancies happen in the Representation from any state, the executive authority thereof shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The House of Representatives shall choose their speaker and other officers. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 3.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]chosen by the legislature thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Immediately after they shall be assembled in consequence of the first election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three classes. The seats of the Senators of the first class shall be vacated at the expiration of the second year, of the second class at the expiration of the fourth year, and the third class at the expiration of the sixth year, so that one third may be chosen every second year; and if vacancies happen by resignation, or otherwise, during the recess of the legislature of any state, the executive thereof may make temporary appointments until the next meeting of the legislature, which shall then fill such vacancies[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the age of thirty years, and been nine years a citizen of the United States and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state for which he shall be chosen.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
The Senate shall choose their President and all other officers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 4.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Senators.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Congress shall assemble at least once in every year, and such meeting shall [/FONT][FONT=&quot]be on the first Monday in December,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] unless they shall by law appoint a different day.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 5.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the attendance of absent members, in such manner, and under such penalties as each House may provide.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two thirds, expel a member.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Each House shall keep a journal of its proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such parts as may in their judgment require secrecy; and the yeas and nays of the members of either House on any question shall, at the desire of one fifth of those present, be entered on the journal.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Neither House, during the session of Congress, shall, without the consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other place than that in which shall the two Houses be sitting.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Senators and Representatives shall receive a compensation for their services, to be ascertained by law, and paid out of the treasury of the United States. They shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No Senator or Representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil office under the authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time: and no person holding any office under the United States, shall be a member of either House during his continuance in office.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 7.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the Consuls of the United States; if a majority of them approve they shall sign it, but if not they shall return it, with their objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the Consuls within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Every order, resolution, or vote to which the concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of adjournment) shall be presented to the Consuls of the United States; and before the same shall take effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the rules and limitations prescribed in the case of a bill.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 8.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes without destroying the free Market and Banking system of the United States and the right of the States to regulate commerce within their own Borders, including rivers and Other bodies of water;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States, provided that it is not for purposes of raising the federal militia and navy and that two thirds of the Senators present concur;
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
To negotiate and sign treaties and to buy and sell land to foreign nations and with the Indian tribes, provided that the two-thirds of the Senators present concur;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To purchase land in Africa for the purpose of establishing a colony for such Persons held to Service or Labour who migrated and imported from there before;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To make gold and silver as tender in payment of debts and as the only currency of the United States, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To promote[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To make rules for the government of the United States;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To be able to raise and save money for the purpose of preparation for future wars upon consent of the majority of States wherein costs shall be properly shared among all Parties;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To provide for organizing, arming, and governing the Army and Navy of the United States, which is to be established when the militias and navy of the several States are asked, with the consent of the Legislatures therein, to called into the actual service of the United States after a formal declaration of War by Congress with a foreign Nation or Indian tribe;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings – And[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
To exercise legislation and administration in all cases whatsoever, over all other Territories of the United States outside the jurisdiction of the constituent States.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Congress shall only have powers enumerated in this section, unless other powers delegated to Congress are mentioned in this Constitution or an amendment added that demanded more additions to these enumerated Powers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 9.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Congress shall not have any Power to manipulate the free Market system of the States by funding internal improvements or to bribe the States with federal Money for any Purpose. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Congress shall not have any Power to establish a federal militia and Navy except during Times that the united States shall be at war provided that the numbers of the federal militia shall be Limited to Half of the numbers of all militias of the Several States participating in the War, unless all the Senators concur for more, and it shall be dissolved upon declaration of Peace. The federal Navy shall be dissolved too in the same manner as the militia.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Congress shall dissolve the Army and Navy of the United States upon declaration of Peace.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 10.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any state.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one state over those of another: nor shall vessels bound to, or from, one state, be obliged to enter, clear or pay duties in another.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law; and a regular statement and account of receipts and expenditures of all public money shall be published from time to time.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 11.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Article II.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Section 1. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The executive power shall be vested in three Consuls of the United States of America. They shall hold their office during the term of four years. The first Consul shall be elected as follows:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. And they shall make a list of all the persons voted for, and of the number of votes for each; which list they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be counted. The person having the greatest number of votes shall be the first Consul. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Only then can the two other Consuls be elected. The second Consul shall be elected by the Senate while the third Consul shall be elected by the House of Representatives. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Congress may determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of Consul; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
In case of the removal of the first Consul from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the President of the Senate, and the Congress may by law provide for the case of removal, death, resignation or inability of the first Consul, declaring what officer shall then act as first Consul, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or first Consul shall finally be elected.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] The second and third Consuls shall be elected once again by the same bodies delegated for the task, in case of their death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of their offices.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Consuls shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the period for which they shall have been elected, and they shall not receive within that period any other emolument from the United States, or any of them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Before they enter on the execution of his office, they shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of Consul of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 2. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Consuls shall be commanders in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, which shall be composed of the militia and navy of the several states when called into the actual service of the United States after a formal declaration of War by Congress with a foreign Nation or Indian tribe, provided that the Congress and majority of States concurs. They may individually require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and they shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment, provided that a majority of them approve as a body.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
They shall have power, provided that a majority of them approve as a body and two thirds of the Senators present concur, to appoint public ministers and consuls and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are explicitly provided for, and which shall be established by law, otherwise the Congress shall make the appointments, like appointments for the judges of the supreme Court wherein the Senate shall make the appointments upon nomination of the House. The Consuls shall not have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Congress, thus requiring Congress to establish proper lines of succession for all the officers of the United States in case of vacancies.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 3. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
They shall from time to time give to the Congress, in writing and shall be submitted to each house of Congress, information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 4. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Consuls and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on
impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Article III.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section. 1.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The judicial Power of the United States shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section. 2.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;-- between a State and Citizens of another State,--between Citizens of different States,--between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The supreme Court and inferior Courts shall have the sole power to try all impeachments against the President and other civil officers of the United States. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Section 3. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
In all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under the Constitution of the United States, Judgment shall be made based upon the specific language of the Constitution and its Amendments and the original Intent of its Authors, which shall be expressed in further detail in a series of Papers to fight for its Ratification.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section. 4.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Article. IV.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Section. 1.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section. 2.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section. 3.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress. No new State where persons were being held to Service or Labour may be admitted. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section. 4.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Article V. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 1. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 2.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 3.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 4.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 5.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 6. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 7.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 8. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 9. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Congress shall have power to prohibit the migration or importation of such persons as any of the states and other Territories of the United States now existing shall think proper to admit, and for all Persons held to Service or Labour to be freed from such obligations to the Parties where their Service or Labour may be due with proper Compensation to such Parties starting in the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety until the year one thousand eight hundred and twenty. From then on, all such Persons shall be guaranteed their Rights under the Constitution and laws of the United States. The several States with the government of the United States shall create an Initiative for a colony inhabited by such Persons to be established in Africa. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Section 10.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The United States is a voluntary union of Several States for purpose of common Defense and security of its liberties. All powers not expressly delegated to the United States by this Constitution, nor reserved to it by the States, are naturally reserved to the sovereign, constituent States, or its people. The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. And they shall not apply to the governments of Several States, only to the government of the United States. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thus, the Legislatures of the several States shall have the power to nullify any legislation of the Congress or to break its Union with the United States if it deemed to be necessary for its own Security. If the United States shall prove to be inadequate in the purposes it was delegated to do, the several States shall have the power to dissolve the United States at any time.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Article VI. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The sovereign, constituent States; whenever its Legislatures shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution by calling a Convention for proposing Amendments, with a Quorum to do Business of three fourths of States present, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and twenty shall in any Manner affect the Ninth Section of the fifth Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Article VII.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The Ratification of the Legislatures of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.[/FONT]

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[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Word, "the," being interlined between the seventh and eighth Lines of the first Page, the Word "Thirty" being partly written on an Erazure in the fifteenth Line of the first Page, The Words "is tried" being interlined between the thirty second and thirty third Lines of the first Page and the Word "the" being interlined between the forty third and forty fourth Lines of the second Page.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Attest: William Jackson Secretary[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names[/FONT],
[FONT=&quot]George Washington[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
President and deputy from Virginia[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The rest of the TTL’s delegates who signed the Constitution: Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry of Virginia as notable TTL signatories. Alexander Hamilton’s signature is absent. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
THE [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Conventions of a number of the States, assembled upon application of its Legislatures expressed a desire to give a feeling of inclusion to the United States to newly annexed territories from the Barbary Coast and to all other Territories that shall be added from here on to further extend the ground of public confidence in the Government, and will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
RESOLVED[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot], in Convention and upon ratification of three fourths of all the States,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the following Articles as Amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America:
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]First Amendment[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, thus, any territory that shall be annexed with governing Monarchies and nobility shall allow such Persons with any title of nobility to retain their titles but any Political powers every State monarchs possess shall be given over to the former Subjects, who shall form a more Republican form of Government with the Monarch and the nobility as ceremonial symbols of the State enjoying no Privileges and protections from the law, except for the Monarch, over the People. From then, no more titles of nobility shall be given. [/FONT]

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Second Amendment[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
The United States shall guarantee a single Senator and a single Representative to every incorporated and organized Territory.[/FONT]


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[/FONT]
 
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There you go guys. The United States Constitution TTL. With all of the prescriptions of the timeline's author.

Ericams, I think it's pretty much satisfactory. I made sure every prescription is there. There's no need for a central bank prohibition. It would be automatic. Even the internal improvements, but I still put the internal improvements to make sure. I really made sure that I put up everything there. Look at the Bill of Rights. It's all there.
 
Sub Lord Hawk, The entire basis of making this timeline is from an ideology that is considered largely fringe here in AH.com (even more fringe and that its members are far less than the vocal communists, anarchists and left-libertarians here who made entire ideological wank timelines that even won awards and large scale acceptance) even more in international level presence. Many of the members here are from moderate conservatives (by American standards) going to the left. And yet I don't see this USA as an imperialistic power since it largely fought wars for its own self-defense at this time of the Napoleonic Era. It largely reacts to what's going on around it. And that's OK.

This timeline is hard to swallow for a lot of people here who largely subscribed to mainstream economic thinking. But I see ericams' point in seeing things from a worldview of a right-wing libertarian and American exceptionalist. I've been here before. So I understand.

So please don't try to derail this thread. Did you see someone derail Jello's v.1 of Reds and call it implausible and ASB out of a POD where Teddy did not become President and all of a sudden it's red flags all over the place in ten years and a communist revolution by the 1930s? The v.2 has a different POD but still the same theme of no Teddy = communist revolution in 1933. Did you see someone derail Meadow's timeline too of a planned syndicalist-wank from Britain?

I think it's time for us to see some kind of a timeline from a worldview of a right-wing libertarian this time around. Let's give this a chance. :)

By the time, I am planning to finish the classical liberal US constitution. I've been to Article III now editing.


I'm a socialist/state capitalist economically, moderate libertarian socially, so while this is averse to my way, it's in no way difficult to see where it's coming from and how it might/might not work.

It's an Ameriwank quickly turning ASB. It shouldn't be in the before 1900 thread, and if commenting is not wanted, go to the writers forum thread.
If I de-rail this by calling out the blunt silliness then I will. Though not out of malicious intent over our differing political views.

I originally quite enjoyed this thread. Yes I had problems with the economic side, but I really wanted to see where this would go. A slight Ameriwank isn't any problem, the ASB is.
How can someone say there political system would actually work, if the scenario it is in is becoming divorced from reality?

A plausible, well written timeline with things not always going so perfect for the US is what is needed, not another 'America is Best!' .
 
Also, Napoleon despised the British, he certainly would not have allied with them. The British absolutely would not ally with Napoleon after years of war. He was the main threat to them, not the US, in this TL and in OTL. In this TL, not only has Trafalgar NOT happened, and a large naval battle occurred to France's favor, but Napoleon is actually feigning the invasion of Britain. They will not ally with him. The British in OTL did not ally with France when we went to war in the War of 1812. Why would they here, especially with Napoleon being even more of a threat. Finally, Napoleon didn't want the war with the US...his general, Davout, ignored his orders not to pursue Hidalgo (it's mentioned in the TL). By the time the Americans declared war on France, the war with Britain was pretty much won.

True, I should have thought that through more.
But a cessation of hostilities while they fight a common enemy isn't implausible.
Napoleon may not of wanted the war, but it still came about. Pretty much won by having them on guard?
Even if it is pretty much won, the continued attacks at sea aren't required.
 
I'm a socialist/state capitalist economically, moderate libertarian socially, so while this is averse to my way, it's in no way difficult to see where it's coming from and how it might/might not work.

It's an Ameriwank quickly turning ASB. It shouldn't be in the before 1900 thread, and if commenting is not wanted, go to the writers forum thread.
If I de-rail this by calling out the blunt silliness then I will. Though not out of malicious intent over our differing political views.

I originally quite enjoyed this thread. Yes I had problems with the economic side, but I really wanted to see where this would go. A slight Ameriwank isn't any problem, the ASB is.
How can someone say there political system would actually work, if the scenario it is in is becoming divorced from reality?

A plausible, well written timeline with things not always going so perfect for the US is what is needed, not another 'America is Best!' .

Look I understand where you are coming from. But you cannot say with certainty what is and isn't possible and what is and isn't ASB. Just because it didn't happen that doesn't mean it couldn't. Just because it is very implausible or unlikely, that doesn't mean with 100% certainty it couldn't happen. Again, plenty of things in OTL are ridiculous when you think about it and had they not happened, then proposed as an alternate TL, people would say its ASB. Honestly all this ASB talk on every thread I read on here is really taking the fun out of alternate history. I first joined this forum in 2004 and I've loved it ever since. But every time I try to have fun on here with a TL or read someone else's TL that I enjoy, all I hear are supposed experts declaring what is possible and what is not and declaring things ASB if it doesn't fit what they believe or like. It just takes all the fun out of it. I mean think about it, I even put a disclaimer on this thread, knowing what was going to happen. I even said "this is for fun". So you know what, perhaps it is "silly". But none of it is 100% out of the realm of possibility. You may consider it silly, no problem. I consider some TL's on here silly, like the aforementioned Communist USA threads. But alternate history is a thought exercise and an exercise in FUN.

So look, if you don't like it, I understand. It's not everyone's cup of tea. But you do not and cannot possibly know what is possible and what 100% not possible. You just can't know. A conquest of Canada by the US that early on is not ASB. Unlikely, yes of course. Silly, perhaps. Impossible, NO. What is coming next is not ASB or impossible either. Extremely unlikely and implausible, sure. Impossible, no. Also, this is not an "America is the best", American exceptionalism thing. It's just fun and heck, I'm even going to wank some other countries too.
 
I'm a socialist/state capitalist economically, moderate libertarian socially, so while this is averse to my way, it's in no way difficult to see where it's coming from and how it might/might not work.

Then you do know what I am going to think of this thread then if you should be careful to see my signature and my location and threads I've been commenting recently. I am a hardcore leftist.

It's an Ameriwank quickly turning ASB. It shouldn't be in the before 1900 thread, and if commenting is not wanted, go to the writers forum thread.
If I de-rail this by calling out the blunt silliness then I will. Though not out of malicious intent over our differing political views.

Our differing political views is very slight... compared of our shared difference of views with ericams.

I originally quite enjoyed this thread. Yes I had problems with the economic side, but I really wanted to see where this would go. A slight Ameriwank isn't any problem, the ASB is.

Well, I would prefer the Americans go SLOWLY than ericams' style of Ameriwank expansion really. So yeah, I have to admit. This is really going to ASB territory in a way.

How can someone say there political system would actually work, if the scenario it is in is becoming divorced from reality?

You have a good point.

A plausible, well written timeline with things not always going so perfect for the US is what is needed, not another 'America is Best!' .

I am actually looking forward to see this timeline to have that historical plausibility even from a right-wing libertarian view. I have some problems with the timeline too now that you are moaning about the ASBishness of this. But I just thought that let's give this a try. No one has done this kind of thing before as far as my whole stay in this site tells me. There's always trial and error about this.

From a communist viewpoint, compare Cowd's first try in his Reality Rosa that was totally bashed even by his/her fellow comrades for the ASBishness to the Red America timeline that I saw to Jello Biafra's Reds timelines that just recently won a Turtledove. Let's give this a try.
 
Look I understand where you are coming from. But you cannot say with certainty what is and isn't possible and what is and isn't ASB. Just because it didn't happen that doesn't mean it couldn't.

Of course. But I think our problem in this is that things are getting SO favorable to the American side VERY EARLY in its history. I have some qualms on the POD and even about how the Constitution of TTL unfolded. But yeah, I kinda just supported you in this all-new experiment.

Just because it is very implausible or unlikely, that doesn't mean with 100% certainty it couldn't happen. Again, plenty of things in OTL are ridiculous when you think about it and had they not happened, then proposed as an alternate TL, people would say its ASB.

I remember Cowd doing his utopianistic communist timeline talking about how history is a series of implausible events in his signature.

I understand where you coming from, but what happened is you have to make the right balance between your idealism and what's out here in OTL as a basis. That's basically where every good timeline here has done. Even if you can't agree with the politics that went through his or her timeline, you understand that it has a degree of plausibility to happen.

Honestly all this ASB talk on every thread I read on here is really taking the fun out of alternate history. I first joined this forum in 2004 and I've loved it ever since. But every time I try to have fun on here with a TL or read someone else's TL that I enjoy, all I hear are supposed experts declaring what is possible and what is not and declaring things ASB if it doesn't fit what they believe or like.

It can get really annoying, but sometimes it makes sense especially when someone makes a timeline that makes you go to the Land of Oz within 5 minutes. That's nothing to have fun of too.

It just takes all the fun out of it. I mean think about it, I even put a disclaimer on this thread, knowing what was going to happen. I even said "this is for fun". So you know what, perhaps it is "silly". But none of it is 100% out of the realm of possibility. You may consider it silly, no problem. I consider some TL's on here silly, like the aforementioned Communist USA threads. But alternate history is a thought exercise and an exercise in FUN

But the problem is you did not consider your audience on this site and did not make the right balance of perspective so that people will just say "I may not like the politics but this is a cool timeline. It made me really think." There's nothing like that here. Another problem here is that classical liberals like you here are far fewer than leftists overall.

So look, if you don't like it, I understand. It's not everyone's cup of tea. But you do not and cannot possibly know what is possible and what 100% not possible. You just can't know.

We can have a feel of what can happen and can't happen honestly. It's the entire point of this site. What things can happen and cannot happen. It's a continuous discussion and evolution of perspectives.

A conquest of Canada by the US that early on is not ASB. Unlikely, yes of course. Silly, perhaps. Impossible, NO.

Many authors here prefer to make pre-1776 divergences to make Canada's entry to the Union as very smooth landing as possible rather than the hard way which is the one you took.

What is coming next is not ASB or impossible either. Extremely unlikely and implausible, sure.

The greater the implausibility, the greater its ASBishness. So the greater chance that it's totally impossible. I'm sorry.

Impossible, no. Also, this is not an "America is the best", American exceptionalism thing. It's just fun and heck, I'm even going to wank some other countries too.

While Eurofed's Ameriwank approach was more popular and accepted, you have to work harder for this one though.

I don't want you to abandon this little project. But improvements are something that you must really do. Fortunately, I am on your side politically before I returned back to the anti-market radical left so I get where you want to go. Unfortunately, we still have differences that I am not sure if I can bridge those supposedly slight differences.

Let's see. What are the countries you like to wank? Why?
 
This is going to be a big post, sorry! :eek:

Look I understand where you are coming from. But you cannot say with certainty what is and isn't possible and what is and isn't ASB. Just because it didn't happen that doesn't mean it couldn't. Just because it is very implausible or unlikely, that doesn't mean with 100% certainty it couldn't happen. Again, plenty of things in OTL are ridiculous when you think about it and had they not happened, then proposed as an alternate TL, people would say its ASB. Honestly all this ASB talk on every thread I read on here is really taking the fun out of alternate history. I first joined this forum in 2004 and I've loved it ever since. But every time I try to have fun on here with a TL or read someone else's TL that I enjoy, all I hear are supposed experts declaring what is possible and what is not and declaring things ASB if it doesn't fit what they believe or like. It just takes all the fun out of it. I mean think about it, I even put a disclaimer on this thread, knowing what was going to happen. I even said "this is for fun". So you know what, perhaps it is "silly". But none of it is 100% out of the realm of possibility. You may consider it silly, no problem. I consider some TL's on here silly, like the aforementioned Communist USA threads. But alternate history is a thought exercise and an exercise in FUN.

So look, if you don't like it, I understand. It's not everyone's cup of tea. But you do not and cannot possibly know what is possible and what 100% not possible. You just can't know. A conquest of Canada by the US that early on is not ASB. Unlikely, yes of course. Silly, perhaps. Impossible, NO. What is coming next is not ASB or impossible either. Extremely unlikely and implausible, sure. Impossible, no. Also, this is not an "America is the best", American exceptionalism thing. It's just fun and heck, I'm even going to wank some other countries too.

No one can 100% predict what will or will not happen, yes a lot of stuff that has actually happened could be seen to be ASB, your thing about the Mongols.
I do and don't like it.
I do because it's interesting to see a quite different US.
I don't because it's free association union is just becoming a conquer territory grab. And then these new places are all dandy about it.

Then you do know what I am going to think of this thread then if you should be careful to see my signature and my location and threads I've been commenting recently. I am a hardcore leftist.
Our differing political views is very slight... compared of our shared difference of views with ericams.

I didn't realise that. Care to share more in a PM?

Well, I would prefer the Americans go SLOWLY than ericams' style of Ameriwank expansion really. So yeah, I have to admit. This is really going to ASB territory in a way.

I'd rather see a US that expands only slightly from conquest, and more from countries deciding to willingly join.
Having the US forcibly annex places goes against the first piece of the CAS states splitting off peacefully.

I am actually looking forward to see this timeline to have that historical plausibility even from a right-wing libertarian view. I have some problems with the timeline too now that you are moaning about the ASBishness of this. But I just thought that let's give this a try. No one has done this kind of thing before as far as my whole stay in this site tells me. There's always trial and error about this.
From a communist viewpoint, compare Cowd's first try in his Reality Rosa that was totally bashed even by his/her fellow comrades for the ASBishness to the Red America timeline that I saw to Jello Biafra's Reds timelines that just recently won a Turtledove. Let's give this a try.

I'm also looking forward to it, and as you say, even from a right-wing libertarian side.
I am giving it a try, but by commenting I'm trying to make sure it doesn't go off the cliff because ericams gets carried away, which easily happens to everyone, especially when people only comment of what they do like rather than on what they don't.
 
Of course. But I think our problem in this is that things are getting SO favorable to the American side VERY EARLY in its history. I have some qualms on the POD and even about how the Constitution of TTL unfolded. But yeah, I kinda just supported you in this all-new experiment.



I remember Cowd doing his utopianistic communist timeline talking about how history is a series of implausible events in his signature.

I understand where you coming from, but what happened is you have to make the right balance between your idealism and what's out here in OTL as a basis. That's basically where every good timeline here has done. Even if you can't agree with the politics that went through his or her timeline, you understand that it has a degree of plausibility to happen.



It can get really annoying, but sometimes it makes sense especially when someone makes a timeline that makes you go to the Land of Oz within 5 minutes. That's nothing to have fun of too.



But the problem is you did not consider your audience on this site and did not make the right balance of perspective so that people will just say "I may not like the politics but this is a cool timeline. It made me really think." There's nothing like that here. Another problem here is that classical liberals like you here are far fewer than leftists overall.



We can have a feel of what can happen and can't happen honestly. It's the entire point of this site. What things can happen and cannot happen. It's a continuous discussion and evolution of perspectives.



Many authors here prefer to make pre-1776 divergences to make Canada's entry to the Union as very smooth landing as possible rather than the hard way which is the one you took.



The greater the implausibility, the greater its ASBishness. So the greater chance that it's totally impossible. I'm sorry.



While Eurofed's Ameriwank approach was more popular and accepted, you have to work harder for this one though.

I don't want you to abandon this little project. But improvements are something that you must really do. Fortunately, I am on your side politically before I returned back to the anti-market radical left so I get where you want to go. Unfortunately, we still have differences that I am not sure if I can bridge those supposedly slight differences.

Let's see. What are the countries you like to wank? Why?

I did consider my audience on here...hence the disclaimer in the beginning. Also, the reason the US is advancing so quickly is because of the slightly different circumstances of the Napoleonic Wars being more in France's favor early on. The US ends up getting into two defensive wars with powers already at war with each other and the US is not the biggest threat to either. Basically it gets lucky, but also has stronger military forces and better generalship from the beginning.

Anyway, honestly, I'm considering just giving up on this. It seems if anything diverges from OTL history too much everyone gets up-in-arms about it. I tried to explain in the TL why things were going this way (Miranda's pamphlets/essays spreading Republicanism, foreign generals training the army, a larger navy from the beginning, no Trafalgar, British naval defeat, etc, etc.) but it doesn't seem it helped too much.
 
In Upper Canada, General Jackson moves westward toward the Pacific Ocean to capture key British forts along the way and on the island of Vancouver and to secure the area for the US after the war. Along the way he fights several battles against the Native allies of Britain and sporadic Canadian forces. .

Jackson going to the Pacific? I dont think he would find much beyond small fur stations west of Sault St Marie...

but do keep it up
 
I didn't realise that. Care to share more in a PM?

Well, let's just say that I am not someone that comes from a single variant of leftist thought and just staying there. I am more of a non-doctrinaire communist.

I'd rather see a US that expands only slightly from conquest, and more from countries deciding to willingly join.
Having the US forcibly annex places goes against the first piece of the CAS states splitting off peacefully.

I do too. Even in other timelines where super Ameriwank happens, the seeds of pro-American sentiments and republicanism are being planted first until it grows to the point where circumstances allow annexation as states immediately. The same case should apply here with North Africa.

I'm also looking forward to it, and as you say, even from a right-wing libertarian side.
I am giving it a try, but by commenting I'm trying to make sure it doesn't go off the cliff because ericams gets carried away, which easily happens to everyone, especially when people only comment of what they do like rather than on what they don't.

Maybe we can all work together to make this work. Ericams! Don't give up on this yet! :eek:

I did consider my audience on here...hence the disclaimer in the beginning. Also, the reason the US is advancing so quickly is because of the slightly different circumstances of the Napoleonic Wars being more in France's favor early on. The US ends up getting into two defensive wars with powers already at war with each other and the US is not the biggest threat to either. Basically it gets lucky, but also has stronger military forces and better generalship from the beginning.

Anyway, honestly, I'm considering just giving up on this. It seems if anything diverges from OTL history too much everyone gets up-in-arms about it. I tried to explain in the TL why things were going this way (Miranda's pamphlets/essays spreading Republicanism, foreign generals training the army, a larger navy from the beginning, no Trafalgar, British naval defeat, etc, etc.) but it doesn't seem it helped too much.

No. Don't give up on this yet. I think Sub Lord Hawk's qualms on this is the fact that you went all out so early and there's no build up as a lot of authors are doing here. They build it up gradually. Here, it's all out at the very beginning that it's going ASBishness.

I guess I can just say that much of the site has evolved since 2004 where people do care a lot about plausibility of timelines rather than just doing a timeline for fun. I understand. Flocculencio's Anglo-Dutch empire TL back in 2005 is ASBish. But yeah it's fun. Nevertheless, in the general atmosphere right now, you can't make something like that in this forum anymore, except in the ASB forum at least.
 
Well, let's just say that I am not someone that comes from a single variant of leftist thought and just staying there. I am more of a non-doctrinaire communist.



I do too. Even in other timelines where super Ameriwank happens, the seeds of pro-American sentiments and republicanism are being planted first until it grows to the point where circumstances allow annexation as states immediately. The same case should apply here with North Africa.



Maybe we can all work together to make this work. Ericams! Don't give up on this yet! :eek:



No. Don't give up on this yet. I think Sub Lord Hawk's qualms on this is the fact that you went all out so early and there's no build up as a lot of authors are doing here. They build it up gradually. Here, it's all out at the very beginning that it's going ASBishness.

I guess I can just say that much of the site has evolved since 2004 where people do care a lot about plausibility of timelines rather than just doing a timeline for fun. I understand. Flocculencio's Anglo-Dutch empire TL back in 2005 is ASBish. But yeah it's fun. Nevertheless, in the general atmosphere right now, you can't make something like that in this forum anymore, except in the ASB forum at least.

If you can't have fun on here, what is the point? I mean seriously. That is the entire point of alternate history. None of it's real anyway! I didn't feel like doing a super-detailed timeline that explains every detail or every single thing. I've done that before with a Rome TL I did a good while back and it became so difficult and tedious to write that I had to give up. So I wanted to stick to bare bones and have fun. But, I guess if "I can't anymore", then ok, I won't. Honestly, even if I reboot this thing and lay out everything as absolutely as plausibly as possible, not only will someone still want to argue politics, I guarantee you the indignant shouts of "ASB" will be heard all around again. I've discovered on here that sometimes things become ASB simply because someone doesn't like your work. Never mind that the original meaning of "ASB" was something magical, superhuman, time travel, actual space bats, or something equally absurd causing something unbelievable to happen. To my knowledge in this TL, there have been no warlocks or witches or actual space bats named Marvin or time traveling agents from 2345 in this TL making all this happen. Therefore, it may be extremely unlikely to ever occur but you can't say that it is impossible or as in the case of ASB, breaks the laws of physics or physical reality.

Again, I will draw you to another item of OTL that, if hypothetically viewed from the standpoint of an alternate reality would be seen as ASB: Britain controlling one fourth of the world just because it has a big navy. Or heck, the US actually winning the Revolution and then basically being wanked in reality. Both of these things were very unlikely, just like the aforementioned Mongol Empire, yet they happened. I've yet to see a TL where someone wanks Britain in the 1900's and actually see someone scream "ASB". Yet the possibility of such a small island nation conquering one fourth of the planet earth is so ridiculously small. But because it happened in OTL, it seems obvious that it could and would happen, just like that, every time. And there are hundreds of other examples of improbably or "ASB" things that occurred in real history that everyone today sees as obvious and inevitable, but they were not.

It's getting tedious arguing this. Maybe I'll just try a reboot and just automatically stick it in ASB forum so everyone will quit moaning about ASB.
 
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If you can't have fun on here, what is the point? I mean seriously. That is the entire point of alternate history. None of it's real anyway! I didn't feel like doing a super-detailed timeline that explains every detail or every single thing. I've done that before with a Rome TL I did a good while back and it became so difficult and tedious to write that I had to give up. So I wanted to stick to bare bones and have fun. But, I guess if "I can't anymore", then ok, I won't. Honestly, even if I reboot this thing and lay out everything as absolutely as plausibly as possible, not only will someone still want to argue politics, I guarantee you the indignant shouts of "ASB" will be heard all around again. I've discovered on here that sometimes things become ASB simply because someone doesn't like your work. Never mind that the original meaning of "ASB" was something magical, superhuman, time travel, actual space bats, or something equally absurd causing something unbelievable to happen. To my knowledge in this TL, there have been no warlocks or witches or actual space bats named Marvin or time traveling agents from 2345 in this TL making all this happen. Therefore, it may be extremely unlikely to ever occur but you can't say that it is impossible or as in the case of ASB, breaks the laws of physics or physical reality.

I guess you just didn't get for all of your years here what people means when they say your timeline or scenario is ASB. ASB = it's implausible because it assumes that you just did some magic through some alien space bat intervention that your timeline become something like this.

God, I don't know how you got this idea that your timeline is ASB because I hate it commentaries.

If there's one thing that really made your TL ASBish for people here is that it is so cheerfully utopian. It's basically right-wing libertarian utopia. And that's the problem. You didn't made a careful balance. You didn't create a build up carefully. And you didn't detail out your history. So that's why people saw it that way. There are flaws that can be tolerated and just got away with but when a glaring political cheerleading happened it kinda created the havoc.

Again, I will draw you to another item of OTL that, if hypothetically viewed from the standpoint of an alternate reality would be seen as ASB: Britain controlling one fourth of the world just because it has a big navy. Or heck, the US actually winning the Revolution and then basically being wanked in reality. Both of these things were very unlikely, just like the aforementioned Mongol Empire, yet they happened. I've yet to see a TL where someone wanks Britain in the 1900's and actually see someone scream "ASB". Yet the possibility of such a small island nation conquering one fourth of the planet earth is so ridiculously small. But because it happened in OTL, it seems obvious that it could and would happen, just like that, every time. And there are hundreds of other examples of improbably or "ASB" things that occurred in real history that everyone today sees as obvious and inevitable, but they were not.

Your explanation of things as ASB in OTL from another alternate universe perspective is really just so simplistic I don't know how I could really refute this.

It's getting tedious arguing this. Maybe I'll just try a reboot and just automatically stick it in ASB forum so everyone will quit moaning about ASB.

It would be more tolerable for readers I guess. I really still wish you luck in this. We need to see timelines from right libertarian perspectives more like this here. It's just sad that you just have to put your TL in a more appropriate part of the forum I guess. Hopefully someone can create a timeline like yours that people will swallow better. It can happen. This is a lesson for others who want to make timelines with these themes.
 
Obviously while I'm using Libertads piece in this, this is directed at ericams .


If there's one thing that really made your TL ASBish for people here is that it is so cheerfully utopian. It's basically right-wing libertarian utopia. And that's the problem. You didn't made a careful balance. You didn't create a build up carefully. And you didn't detail out your history. So that's why people saw it that way. There are flaws that can be tolerated and just got away with but when a glaring political cheerleading happened it kinda created the havoc.

This is the thing, it's all so perfect for the US, everyone is happy, everything goes just so for them, all the time.
They annex territory on another continent, and make the monarch a simple figurehead, and everyone is fine with it.

The US just revolted because they didn't get representation for their tax.
These north African nations have nothing in common with this US, the only thing they do get is representation.

I wasn't using ASB to denote actual majik or the like, but the complete implausibility of this.
If you'd of had the annexations with a some problems, fine. Has the political and economic system with a few naysayers, fine. But you just had a utopia of perfection.
 
Ok, it's an interesting premise - what if the Constitutional Convention had come out differently?
And given how influential the US experience and example has been on fledgeling republics since that time, even if the history of the US itself were largely similar it would have a huge effect on the world.
I have had, however, several things making me go "but what about...?"
Such as the US annexing the Barbary states...but what about US Christian opinion?
There were those who opposed the OTL constitution because it was godless, and did not enshrine Christianity as part of the government. They were concerned that Catholics, Muslims, Jews, and even atheists would be able to seize power. If you threaten to add substantial territories populated by Muslims to the US, they are going to go absolutely ballistic, and you're unlikely to get the annexation passed.
Never mind how easily you waved away slavery - I can understand that is necessary to put the US on a path of more liberty, and frankly I think that would have been better than the OTL path to civil war.

Also relating to the Barbary States, if they are conquered and occupied, even if not added to the US, there will be missionaries galore leaving the US to try to convert the "Mussulmen". Which isn't going to do wonders for relations between US forces and the locals. Try to stop the missionaries going, you have to restrict freedom of movement. To avoid their trying to get there in the first place, you're going to have to change Christianity in the US.

US navy beats the British at Cape Breton - with what Ships of the Line? The US built big, powerful frigates, but a frigate can't stand against a 3-decker in battle. Either Britain has enough naval strength she can shake loose a squadron or two of SotL to American waters, or she's not going to go to war with the US and will pay them off, if necessary. In OTL 1812 it was the former - the French fleet was mostly rotting under the sea off Trafalgar - in TTL if the British fleet is weaker, if there's a genuine invasion threat (or fear of one), they'll be concilatory.
And if the US refuses British apologies, reparations and punishment of the commander responsible, guess who's the aggressor now?
I don't think the US at this point has the capability to build a useful number of SotL, either, they were a stretch for the Great Powers.

"An attempted British assault on Tangier ends in disaster, as the French fleet attacks the British fleet during the attempted capture of the city."
Seems unlikely that the British would attempt to attack an American colony when the French fleet is still a going concern. Much more likely that they'd try something against the French...

As to the US-British treaty after that war - it's highly favourable towards the US, especially when the US are now at war simultaneously with Britain and France. The US of the early 1800s is a country with a lot of potential, but very little actual power. That's OTL; losing several states, whatever the problems they caused later, is hardly going to help.

So much for the aspects of the TL relating to Britain, which is where I have the most knowledge.

What I would advise is that you continue this TL a bit further, say to 1850 or so, or however far you get. Then consider a reboot, to account for some of the (constructive) criticism you've had so far, and have another go at the TL.
 
I guess you just didn't get for all of your years here what people means when they say your timeline or scenario is ASB. ASB = it's implausible because it assumes that you just did some magic through some alien space bat intervention that your timeline become something like this.

God, I don't know how you got this idea that your timeline is ASB because I hate it commentaries.

If there's one thing that really made your TL ASBish for people here is that it is so cheerfully utopian. It's basically right-wing libertarian utopia. And that's the problem. You didn't made a careful balance. You didn't create a build up carefully. And you didn't detail out your history. So that's why people saw it that way. There are flaws that can be tolerated and just got away with but when a glaring political cheerleading happened it kinda created the havoc.



Your explanation of things as ASB in OTL from another alternate universe perspective is really just so simplistic I don't know how I could really refute this.



It would be more tolerable for readers I guess. I really still wish you luck in this. We need to see timelines from right libertarian perspectives more like this here. It's just sad that you just have to put your TL in a more appropriate part of the forum I guess. Hopefully someone can create a timeline like yours that people will swallow better. It can happen. This is a lesson for others who want to make timelines with these themes.

Oh ok no problem. I apologize profusely for breaking forum rules with regard to what is possible and what isn't and for not being more sensitive to the experts on the board who decide what is appropriate and what is not. I truly apologize. I just thought it'd be a fun exercise to write out a timeline. But I didn't realize that there was a proper, exact way to go about doing so; sorry again for my ignorance. Glad I served as a lesson to others who might decide to commit these same actions in a TL. I promise I didn't mean to create an intolerable timeline that people can't read. I guess I assumed that if it was intolerable or not being enjoyed by those reading it, that they could simply not read it. Again, sorry for my abject ignorance in assuming freedom of action on this forum with regard to what material is read and isn't read. Also, sorry for the simplicity of my attempt to direct you to the absurdity of a tiny island with a small population controlling one fourth of the world's surface. You are correct, that was simplistic and ignorant of me to bring it up.

As such, I shall relieve you of the intolerable nature of this TL and not waste any more of your time.
 
Oh ok no problem. I apologize profusely for breaking forum rules with regard to what is possible and what isn't and for not being more sensitive to the experts on the board who decide what is appropriate and what is not. I truly apologize. I just thought it'd be a fun exercise to write out a timeline. But I didn't realize that there was a proper, exact way to go about doing so; sorry again for my ignorance. Glad I served as a lesson to others who might decide to commit these same actions in a TL. I promise I didn't mean to create an intolerable timeline that people can't read. I guess I assumed that if it was intolerable or not being enjoyed by those reading it, that they could simply not read it. Again, sorry for my abject ignorance in assuming freedom of action on this forum with regard to what material is read and isn't read. Also, sorry for the simplicity of my attempt to direct you to the absurdity of a tiny island with a small population controlling one fourth of the world's surface. You are correct, that was simplistic and ignorant of me to bring it up.

As such, I shall relieve you of the intolerable nature of this TL and not waste any more of your time.

You thought of me as "sarcastic" when I posted here before. Now I don't know if you are being sarcastic at me again. But I guess you're not.

Anyway, there's no need to apologize. And I really really would love to see this timeline be done better. Retcon it and do it HERE, but just made it... better. There's no need to do it in the ASB forum really. But if that's what you want so you can put things that you really like to put then so be it. In fact, you can finish this timeline here until 1850 as Incognitia noted and then just retcon it from there.
 
You thought of me as "sarcastic" when I posted here before. Now I don't know if you are being sarcastic at me again. But I guess you're not.

Anyway, there's no need to apologize. And I really really would love to see this timeline be done better. Retcon it and do it HERE, but just made it... better. There's no need to do it in the ASB forum really. But if that's what you want so you can put things that you really like to put then so be it. In fact, you can finish this timeline here until 1850 as Incognitia noted and then just retcon it from there.

He was being very sarcastic.
 
This thread really rocks. I hope that you don't give up on this. I think that your one real problem is that you are moving to fast on bringing the Barbary states into the union, seeing how their traditions of law and government are quite different from English common law, though in time, and with the advent of telecommunications statehood may become feasible.

Take care and keep up the good work.:)
 
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