"Images of 1984" - Stories from Oceania

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Actually, after re-reading the beginning of the timeline, it appears that a single nuke was detonated in WWII; over Hamburg. This means, that there is yet another detonation... Paris would be my best bet.
My mistake. I forgot to add a post ending the war in the East.

In summary:

Fourteen days after the German surrender a second atom bomb was dropped on the Japanese city of Kokura, and the Japanese, seeing the results of the Hamburg bomb, a declaration of war by the Soviet Union, and dwindling fuel supplies, decided to surrender. A third bomb was due to be dropped on Hiroshima, but the Japanese accepted terms just hours before it was due to be used. The terms were similar to OTL, with the preservation of the Imperial family being agreed.

So we have:

Hamburg
Kokura
Colchester x 2

therefore meaning that no more atomic weapons are used before 2009. This is mainly due to the impact of the Colchester bomb, which probably* killed around 85,000 due to the large numbers of Affiliated troops camped in and around the city. Although around 75% of casualties were civilians.

The second Colchester bomb, detonated above the village of Marks Tey, only probably* killed around 16,000, mainly in the villages of Copford and Coggeshall.

* I say probably. Because the two bombs were only detonated five miles from each, the effects of the blasts in the area in between (Beacon Hill, Lexden) were significantly greater than would otherwise have been the case. Casualties from the west of the town are generally counted within the figure for the Colchester bomb.

Marks Tey was an important road and rail junction on the Affiliated supply lines. Colchester was obviously the key garrison. Paratroopers captured Mosley's HQ at Kelvedon Hatch and also the port of Harwich later that morning, securing a significant beachhead at the heart of Cambirdge Affiliation territory.
 
Well at least Big Brother isn't able to cause ww3 though I bet it will cause far more tense relationships between Washington and Moscow. And given that you mention a Irish Missile Crisis an that you have Che in Liverpool does this mean that Cuba never goes communist or that the Soviets decide not to place Nukes there or is the Bay of Pigs successful or is it just that the Irish Missile Crisis came closer to war and is therefore better remembered also is anything from my summary I posted before the last update correct
 
Well at least Big Brother isn't able to cause ww3 though I bet it will cause far more tense relationships between Washington and Moscow. And given that you mention a Irish Missile Crisis an that you have Che in Liverpool does this mean that Cuba never goes communist or that the Soviets decide not to place Nukes there or is the Bay of Pigs successful or is it just that the Irish Missile Crisis came closer to war and is therefore better remembered also is anything from my summary I posted before the last update correct
It will be interesting to see Cuba (or should that be, Castro?) without Che. Without trying to fall into the "Turtledove trap" of writing an ATL with lots of OTL parallels, the "Irish Missile Crisis"will be the ATL equivalent of the Cuban one, only a stand-off between the US and Britain, albeit without the risk of MAD. I'm probably even going to set it in October 1962 :eek:

The Irish Missile Crisis will set the tone of the Anglo-American relationship for 40 years.

EDIT: Thinking about my notes, it's actually going to be more akin to the situation in Korea.

Imagine a DMZ between the North and South, and a stand-off between a nuclear armed US in the south and a nuclear armed UK in the north. No-one wants to blink first because Airstrip One will be turned to glass, and Dublin will be rather warm.

London = Pyonyang
Dublin = Seol

France = Japan?

hmmmm... an interesting situation perhaps, but will explain why no-one wants to intervene in the Oceania sitaution, with Dublin and Paris held hostage to a slightly insane nuclear power...
 
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It will be interesting to see Cuba (or should that be, Castro?) without Che. Without trying to fall into the "Turtledove trap" of writing an ATL with lots of OTL parallels, the "Irish Missile Crisis"will be the ATL equivalent of the Cuban one, only a stand-off between the US and Britain, albeit without the risk of MAD. I'm probably even going to set it in October 1962 :eek:

The Irish Missile Crisis will set the tone of the Anglo-American relationship for 40 years.

EDIT: Thinking about my notes, it's actually going to be more akin to the situation in Korea.

Imagine a DMZ between the North and South, and a stand-off between a nuclear armed US in the south and a nuclear armed UK in the north. No-one wants to blink first because Airstrip One will be turned to glass, and Dublin will be rather warm.

London = Pyonyang
Dublin = Seol

France = Japan?

hmmmm... an interesting situation perhaps, but will explain why no-one wants to intervene in the Oceania sitaution, with Dublin and Paris held hostage to a slightly insane nuclear power...

Wouldn't Ireland see the end of the Civil War as it's chance to grab Ulster?

Also it doesnt seem like Britain will have cruise missles or ICBM's until the late 60's wouldn't France just launch a pre emptive strike?
 
Wouldn't Ireland see the end of the Civil War as it's chance to grab Ulster?
Maybe. The North v Republic border will not be the 6 v 26 counties border we are familiar with after the crisis.
Also it doesnt seem like Britain will have cruise missles or ICBM's until the late 60's wouldn't France just launch a pre emptive strike?
Not too sure on where British missile technology was by 1957 in OTL. The "Steamers" comment a few posts back alluded to poor, inefficient systems. I imagine an Oceania that by the mid-60s has a missile capability comparable to North Korea today

Just been reading up about "Blue Streak", the British missile project. I can see a militaristic Oceania investing in this more, although a key figure of this ATL, Louis Mountbatten, was opposed, preferring investment in naval weapons (Floating Fortresses?).

Let's assume that by 1984 Oceania has a ballistic missile capability of around 2000 miles, and occasionally fires a test missile into the North Sea or North Atlantic, just to annoy it's neighbours.
 
as they're are several mentions of Commonwealth peace keepers in Britain has the Commonwealth evolved into a military alliance.

and as one poster has already said could Australia take over the British nuclear program
 
What does the flag of Oceania look like? I don't mean the Ingsoc Party flag - more whatever is mean to be the national flag of Oceania.


Also, what is the Oceanian National Anthem like under the Ingsoc regime?
 
as they're are several mentions of Commonwealth peace keepers in Britain has the Commonwealth evolved into a military alliance.

and as one poster has already said could Australia take over the British nuclear program

The Commonwealth has deployed peacekeeping troops in OTL. Most notably in Rhodesia at the end of the civil war there.
 
What does the flag of Oceania look like? I don't mean the Ingsoc Party flag - more whatever is mean to be the national flag of Oceania.
1286155106_54243ca5d9.jpg

The flag of Oceania as seen from Victory Square in summer 1993
Also, what is the Oceanian National Anthem like under the Ingsoc regime?
It's called "Oceania 't'is for thee". It's tune is the same as the British national anthem used prior to 1968.
 
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1286155106_54243ca5d9.jpg

The flag of Oceania as seen from Victory Square in summer 1993

It's called "Oceania 't'is for thee". It's tune is the same as the British national anthem used prior to 1968.

Great stuff - although wouldn't the flag at least have some sort of emblem added to it (think the Romanian flag under Ceausescu, or the flag of East Germany)?

Also, what are the Lyrics to the Oceanian National Anthem?

Still a fabulous thread, by the way ... :)
 
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Saturday, 5th September, 2009
It had been an unseasonably cold and wet week in the English Commonwealth, and at the USAF base at Ringway, near Manchester, the weather forecast on the American Forces Network for the weekend was suddenly interupted.

"We interupt this broadcast to bring you some sad news. We regret to inform you of the death of former President Robert F Kennedy, who passed away in his sleep at his home in Hyannis Port, Massachusetts. He was 83 years old and is survived by his wife Ethel and eight of his nine children. President Kennedy held office from 1973 until 1981, during which time he oversaw a period of great social and economic change, not just in the United States, but in the countries aligned to the former Soviet Union. His Presidency also saw a hardening of the relationship with Great Britain, resulting in the 'Cod War' naval skirmishes of 1979.

Speaking from Washington, President Bush acknowledged the role of Kennedy and his influence on a generation of Americans..."

The obituary continued and then the national anthem played.

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Wednesday, 9th September, 2009
The American convoy drove along the A40 west of High Wycombe and into what the soldiers called "Bandit Country" - one of the few areas of Britain where terrorist attacks were still commonplace. The Chilterns was always the core of the English Socialist regime, and it was here in the woods and the hills that the last remaining bandits plied their trade.

It had been a warm day, and the sun was begining to sink below the hills to the west.

As the convoy passed beyond the village of Stokenchurch towards Oxford a battered old Austin Enterprise [1] at the side of the road exploded, ripping through two of the American lorries.

From the trees either side of the A40 shadowy figures in camouflage clothes and balaclavas emerged and fired their machine guns into the remainder of the convoy, before slipping away into the woodland. The former employees of the Thought Police were a thorn in the side of the peacekeepers, and it was their resistance that made the occupation of the Chiltern Triangle such a difficult posting for the Americans.

President George Pierce Bush [2], the 44th to hold the office, took to his platform to announce the death of eight more Americans to the public, but assured the public that the ongoing operations to bring stability and prosperity to Great Britain were succeeding.

The 46 deaths so far in 2009 were of course much less than had been seen in 2007 and 2008 and hugely different to those from earlier in the decade when Nixon and the Australians started the bloody thing. In those days the Thought Police were everwhere and their resistance in the rural south east had seriously stalled the military campaign led by the United States, Australia and India.

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It wasn't all bad news though. England had qualified for the FIFA World Cup by defeating Flanders 3-0 at Twickenham [3] earlier in the evening. This counldn't have come at a better time for the Prime Minister, who was looking to campaign on a platform of national unity in the general election, scheduled for 2010. With England in the finals for the first time since 1966, when they won and were subsequently expelled, the PM was hoping that the country would have something to celebrate when the squad return from Rhodesia and South Africa next year.

[1] An Austin Enterprise is a small van popular amongst rural communities between the 1960s and 1980s. It was also a vehicle used by police forces in urban areas due to it's speed and ease to manouver. In another timeline a similar vehicle could be referred to as Mini-van

[2] George Pierce Bush was born in 1944, the eldest son of former Vice-President George HW Bush and Barbara Bush (nee Pierce). He was elected President in 2004, taking office in January 2005. He was the first Republican president since 1985 when Ronald Reagan left office.

[3] The former Oceania Stadium at Wembley is currently being rebuilt as part of regeneration initiatives in north London. The twin towers, for fifty years a sign of oppression and dictatorship, were demolished late in 2007. Until it is complete (possibly 2012, but you never know what these Australian contractors are like...) the Football Association are using the 78,000 capacity Twickenham Stadium in west London to host England home games.
 
Thoughts?

If anyone has any ideas on the Presidents between the 1950s and 2009 please let me know. I have a rough outline how you get there and who I have in mind, but would welcome suggestions via PM on how realistic these could be.

Or see if anyone can guess my ideas by filling in the blanks from what we already know below...

Please note, as with GP Bush, 42 and 43 are "new" characters butterflied into life due to their age, but their parents are very much the same and all have links with the office of POTUS in OTL...

Ta very much

Will

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33 Truman 1945-53
34 Ike 1953-1957
35 JP Kennedy (D) 1957-1965 (VP A Stevenson)
36 Adlai Stevenson (D) 1965-1966 (dio)
37 (D) 1966-1969
38 (R) 1969-1973
39 Robert F Kennedy (D) 1973-1981
40 (R) 1981-1985 (VP GHW Bush)
41 (Ind) 1985-1993
42 (Ind) 1993-1997
43 ? Nixon (D) 1997-2005
44 George Pierce Bush (R) 2005-
 
Great stuff like the Iraq/Afghanistan analogue which begs the question what happening in those countries not sure bout Iraq but Afghanistan may be closely allied to India maybe the IOTO
 
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