If I forget you, Oh Samaria...

[MarkA]

The butterfly effect. The aftermath of Alexander's conquests sees a Ptolemaic push east that I neglected to mention, which prompts the Carthaginians to turn more and more warlike. This prompts the Romans to start doing the same as well, which will pose interesting questions for the Second and Third Punic Wars. Specifically, since Carthage is building a stronger power base, a Roman conquest will be harder, and there may be a Carthaginian Byzantine equivalent that survives for a century or so before the Romans ultimately finish it.

I see. But why exactly should a Ptolemaic push east make the Carthaginians who were a long way west become more militaristic?

Even if the Phonecians became more militaristic this should not impact on Carthage. Why should the Phonecians react in this way when they did not in OTL?

 

[Snake Featherston]

I see. But why exactly should a Ptolemaic push east make the Carthaginians who were a long way west become more militaristic?

Even if the Phonecians became more militaristic this should not impact on Carthage. Why should the Phonecians react in this way when they did not in OTL?

The Ptolemaic push east impacts the Berber tribes, sponsoring raids on Carthage. It's a similar process, on a smaller scale, to what happened with the Xiongnu in China. The constant raids force militarism for the good and simple reason that Carthage needs to protect itself against hostile tribesmen, which has bonuses for the Punic Wars. It's a snowball effect from a greater push into Cyrenaica and the outlying reasons.

If that needs changing, I'll do it.

 

[MarkA]

The Ptolemaic push east impacts the Berber tribes, sponsoring raids on Carthage. It's a similar process, on a smaller scale, to what happened with the Xiongnu in China. The constant raids force militarism for the good and simple reason that Carthage needs to protect itself against hostile tribesmen, which has bonuses for the Punic Wars. It's a snowball effect from a greater push into Cyrenaica and the outlying reasons.

If that needs changing, I'll do it.

So you mean a Ptolemaic push west. That makes more sense. Except what possible reason would they have when their interests lay to the east and north? They did conduct punitive raids against the tribes to their west but any sort of occupation is out of the question as it was in OTL.

Carthage was subjected to raids in OTL and had a citizen army trained as hoplites as well as mercenaries. Even if the citizen army is retained, the manpower problems for Carthage remain. It is not like Rome at all.

 

[Snake Featherston]

So you mean a Ptolemaic push west. That makes more sense. Except what possible reason would they have when their interests lay to the east and north? They did conduct punitive raids against the tribes to their west but any sort of occupation is out of the question as it was in OTL.

Carthage was subjected to raids in OTL and had a citizen army trained as hoplites as well as mercenaries. Even if the citizen army is retained, the manpower problems for Carthage remain. It is not like Rome at all.

Which is where their colonization expansion in Africa comes in. The increased pressure applied by the Ptolemaic dynasty on the Berbers speeds up the rate of raids, prompting large numbers of people to move into Iberia and start dispossessing the locals. I thought such a move would increase the population of Carthage. It won't be like Rome, no, but then Rome was a society that would be hard to duplicate anywhere in any ATL. Rather, Carthage is merely in a stronger position. Not equal, but stronger.

Sort of equivalent to a USSR that beats the Germans in 1944, instead of 1945, and avoids some of the population losses of the last months of the war, enabling minds that likely died IOTL to survive, possibly raising Soviet positions of strength against the US in the intellectual realm.

 

[Michael B]

The butterfly effect. The aftermath of Alexander's conquests sees a Ptolemaic push east that I neglected to mention, which prompts the Carthaginians to turn more and more warlike.

I don't get this. If the Ptolemies are pushing eastwards they are less of a threat to the Carthaginians and thus I would expected the latter to be less warlike.

 

[Snake Featherston]

I don't get this. If the Ptolemies are pushing eastwards they are less of a threat to the Carthaginians and thus I would expected the latter to be less warlike.

I meant west. They decided to deal a punitive blow to the Berbers, to remove any situations emerging due to a slightly different nature of the Seleucid-Ptolemaic Wars.

This westward blizkrieg prompts Berbers to move west, and Carthage has to organize far more quickly than the OTL one did, which prompts an arms race with the Romans.